911 Anniversary

[The Masked Tulip]

Last night of the Proms tomorrow - lots of proms in the park. I usually go to the Swansea one which is about 10 minute walk from where I live.

I think I will give it a miss this year. Hope I am worrying over nothing but the combination of a 911 anniversary and big public concerts across the UK is a tempting target is it not?

Lovely weather forecast for tomorrow also.

TMT in worry mode.

[ken_ichikawa]

Last night of the Proms tomorrow - lots of proms in the park. I usually go to the Swansea one which is about 10 minute walk from where I live.

I think I will give it a miss this year. Hope I am worrying over nothing but the combination of a 911 anniversary and big public concerts across the UK is a tempting target is it not?

Lovely weather forecast for tomorrow also.

TMT in worry mode.

You're letting the terrorists (i.e. the government) win then as they control you by fear...

I mean FFS you have more chance of being hit by a car than killed by a terrorist.

Lets see 2,946 in 2006 were killed in road accidents.

3125 killed in 2005 etc

In contrast 56 people were killed in 2005 by a couple of nuts.

Therefore the risk of being run down by a car is greater.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/1231354.stm

76 people die in home accidents EVERY WEEK. Therefore your home is massively deadlier than terrorists. These terrorists are bloody rookies anyway...

The IRA in their concerted campaigns managed to kill well more people.

[Charlie The Tramp Returns]

Rule Britannia, Land of Hope and Glory, Jerusalem, how can you miss that, sing loud and long and don`t let those born *** ** ******* control what you really want to do. In your case being a good Welshman how about "We'll keep a welcome in the hillside" go boyo go.

[The Masked Tulip]

Rule Britannia, Land of Hope and Glory, Jerusalem, how can you miss that, sing loud and long and don`t let those born *** ** ******* control what you really want to do. In your case being a good Welshman how about "We'll keep a welcome in the hillside" go boyo go.

Yes, we sing that in the Swansea Prom.

[Bossybabe]

What makes you think you'll be the unlucky one? You're more likely to get run over by a bus.

[The Masked Tulip]

What makes you think you'll be the unlucky one? You're more likely to get run over by a bus.

My post was not about my own personal anxiety or safety but merely pointing out that that tomorrow is the 911 anniversary and tomorrow there will be large public gatherings across the UK.

Aren't we supposed to be vigilant? Are we supposed to be on guard? What happened to all those orange, red and so on coloured alerts?

Forewarned is forearmed.

Be careful out there people.

[Leroast]

Of what exactly? heavy handed Policemen? The complete failure of our national air defenses? Or buildings collapsing in contravention of the laws of physics?

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Aye, 46yrs old

[geezer466]

Yes, we sing that in the Swansea Prom.

I always found 'Men of Harlech' quite stirring (particularly at the end of that movie I won't name here) shame they don't do it a the proms.

As for the movie I never could work out the connection although it was the SWB only a couple of them had Welsh accents.

['Bart']

In fact, the county designation of the 24th Regiment in 1879 was the 2nd Warwickshires; they didn't change their title to the South Wales Borderers until 1st July 1881 - almost exactly two years after the war had ended. True, the Regimental Depot had been established at Brecon, in South Wales, in 1873, and from that point there was a small but significant increase in Welsh recruits in the ranks. In fact, however, recruits for the regiment - like every other battalion in the British army - were signed on at recruiting depots across the country, and the 24th consisted of men from England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales. The most that can be said is that the Welsh connection had, by 1879, led to a rather higher proportion of Welshman in the ranks than was common elsewhere. Nevertheless, even the most optimistic search of the regimental roll can find only 19 men of B Company, 2/24th, with any sort of Welsh connection - out of a total strength of more than 80. Of course, there were detachments of numerous other units - including Colonial Volunteers - present at the battle, making a total garrison of about 145. So the Welsh contingent comprised no more than 15% of the total.

And no-one, I'm sorry to say, sang Men of Harlech; the regimental march in 1879 was The Warwickshire Lads.

There have been some accounts (primarily David Charles of Fugitive's Drift) where it was said that 'Men of Harlech' was sung as the men of the 3rd column crossed the river at Rorke's Drift on the their way into Zululand, however this has not been verified, and as Ian quite rightly points out, as far as history is concerned, the artistic license used in the film Zulu is purely speculation.

LINK

['Bart']

Although, cough cough *ahem*, apparently the film bares little resemblance to historical fact.

Apparently the often shifty Private Henry Hook VC was nothing like that in real life (his daughters walked out of the film's 1964 London premiere).

I think the reason for the character change was purely for dramatic effect, to provide a bit of internal conflict.

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

Apparently the often shifty Private Henry Hook VC was nothing like that in real life (his daughters walked out of the film's 1964 London premiere).

I think the reason for the character change was purely for dramatic effect, to provide a bit of internal conflict.

apparently Michael Caine wasnt actually in the real thing either

[geezer466]

Stirring stuff.

Although, cough cough *ahem*, apparently the film bares little resemblance to historical fact.

I saw one of those Sky documentaries (years ago) and apparently the Zulus got in between the defenders as the officer corp spread the riflemen too thinly.

According to this documentary, if the arcs of fire had been properly covered the outcome should have been different.

Not so much arcs of fire but the reloading rate of the new Martini Henry rifles on issue at the time. They were the first breech loaders in service in the British Army but could only load one round at a time. The rate at which the Zulu attacked meant they could not bring the (far superior compared to what the zulu had) weapons to bear quick enough.

Arcs of fire are devised for two reasons, the main one is to ensure no one persons arc encroaches on another friendly position (to avoid a blue on blue) second to try and cover every possible approach by a potential enemy. It is not in every circumstance you can achieve both circumstances although the first will always prevail.

Remember seeing the grave of one of the VC winners in Chiswick when on an outing one Sunday, some years ago. His grave was more a memorial topped off with a pith helmet. Gave me the impetus to read up on the battle.

35 years following on from this WW1 started... Oh how automatic weapons had improved over that short time.

[geezer466]

One of the units I served with had a public school nearby who stored 8 Martini Henry rifles in its armoury. ( I think they used to have the ammunition specially made).

Anyway as a consequence we never got to fire them but I can recall being impressed with the smoothness of the bolt action on them for such ancient weapons.

[MrPin]

Have they really been making them for that long?

[Daft Boy]

Last night of the Proms tomorrow - lots of proms in the park. I usually go to the Swansea one which is about 10 minute walk from where I live.

I think I will give it a miss this year. Hope I am worrying over nothing but the combination of a 911 anniversary and big public concerts across the UK is a tempting target is it not?

Lovely weather forecast for tomorrow also.

TMT in worry mode.

Is it ok for me to leave the house now ?

[Bloo Loo]

Yep, we got a tear in the eye singing Land of Hope and Glory, we were all connected and a gian happy land.

Back to screwing each other over a few bob this morning.

[MrPin]

Is it ok for me to leave the house now ?

Only if you are wearing your tin hat!

[The Masked Tulip]

Is it ok for me to leave the house now ?

You have a house!

[happy_renting]

Aren't we supposed to be vigilant? Are we supposed to be on guard? What happened to all those orange, red and so on coloured alerts?

You are not being 'vigilant', you are being a wimp.

You have let the vague and vanishingly improbable threat of terrorism rule your decisons.

Thank goodness we had people with a bit more spine in 1940.

[6538]

Not so much arcs of fire but the reloading rate of the new Martini Henry rifles on issue at the time. They were the first breech loaders in service in the British Army but could only load one round at a time. The rate at which the Zulu attacked meant they could not bring the (far superior compared to what the zulu had) weapons to bear quick enough.

Arcs of fire are devised for two reasons, the main one is to ensure no one persons arc encroaches on another friendly position (to avoid a blue on blue) second to try and cover every possible approach by a potential enemy. It is not in every circumstance you can achieve both circumstances although the first will always prevail.

Remember seeing the grave of one of the VC winners in Chiswick when on an outing one Sunday, some years ago. His grave was more a memorial topped off with a pith helmet. Gave me the impetus to read up on the battle.

35 years following on from this WW1 started... Oh how automatic weapons had improved over that short time.

As I understand it the reason for slow rates of fire from the MH wasn't anything to do with it being a single-shot weapon. This doesn't necessarily make a rifle slow to fire as you can actually sustain quite a high rate of fire with something like that.

The problem, as I recall from stuff I've read, was due to the fouling resulting from the black-powder getting into the workings of the gun. Black-powder produces large amounts of sticky, foul residue which is also very corrosive. This residue coupled with the rapid heating up of the metalwork rapidly caused the gun to jam up and stop working in pretty short order. The most common symptom of this was either spent cases becoming stuck in the chamber or fresh rounds failing to chamber.

I recall seeing a documentary on this a few years back where it was tested with ammunition loaded to the original spcification. From memory I think a string of about 10 or 11 rounds was manageable but thereafter things got rapidly worse and the rifle was effectively inoperable after 15 or 16 rounds.

I forsee a test in the near future - anyone like to donate me an original rifle?????

[happy_renting]

Since you bring up 1940, wasn't our population a little more homogeneous then and when the enemy was clearly identified, didn't we intern those, which might help their countrymen?

Is this what you are suggesting now? I didn't expect such an idea from you.

Edit:Typo

My reference was to the lack of courage. This week we are being reminded of the enormous courage that people displayed in 1940, particularly by those in the RAF, some of whom faced a real likelihood of being killed. What they didn't do was cower indoors at the slightest hint of danger.

The risk of being attacked by terrorists at a public event is miniscule. Giving in to fear hands the terrorists a small victory and encourages them.

I was not proposing internment and made no reference to at all in my post, and it is idiotic to imply that I did or that I made any such suggestion.

In 1940 we were at war with Germany, and Germans in the UK were identifiable and interned in 1939. For your information, they then appeared before tribunals and the majority were released, mostly without restriction. So even in the height of war, our country was liberal enough not to regard all Germans as enemies, and most were allowed to enjoy freedom. The treatment of those who remained interned was quite disgraceful, however.

We are now fighting terrorism, not Islam. Terrorists are not so easily identifiable.

[ccc]

As I understand it the reason for slow rates of fire from the MH wasn't anything to do with it being a single-shot weapon. This doesn't necessarily make a rifle slow to fire as you can actually sustain quite a high rate of fire with something like that.

The problem, as I recall from stuff I've read, was due to the fouling resulting from the black-powder getting into the workings of the gun. Black-powder produces large amounts of sticky, foul residue which is also very corrosive. This residue coupled with the rapid heating up of the metalwork rapidly caused the gun to jam up and stop working in pretty short order. The most common symptom of this was either spent cases becoming stuck in the chamber or fresh rounds failing to chamber.

I recall seeing a documentary on this a few years back where it was tested with ammunition loaded to the original spcification. From memory I think a string of about 10 or 11 rounds was manageable but thereafter things got rapidly worse and the rifle was effectively inoperable after 15 or 16 rounds.

I forsee a test in the near future - anyone like to donate me an original rifle?????

They really should have sorted this thing out by the time the initial SA80 came around.

[happy_renting]

They really should have sorted this thing out by the time the initial SA80 came around.

Bullets! Farsands of 'em!

[6538]

They really should have sorted this thing out by the time the initial SA80 came around.

Yes, you'd have thought so!