Public Sector Unions Need To Change The Record

[ralphmalph]

Ah - thanks for clearing that up.

i look forward to the condems saving us all.

Many a true word said in jest!

[Charlie The Tramp Returns]

At least the condems will let them know that there is a real world out there not just "celebrity culture."

Really, I believe Dave and Nick are participating in the new "celebrity culture"

[Tomlad]

Really, I believe Dave and Nick are participating in the new "celebrity culture"

Nah - our Dave's straight up.

Next you'll be suggesting he's using publicity shots of his new baby to improve his popularity.

[Charlie The Tramp Returns]

Next you'll be suggesting he's using publicity shots of his new baby to improve his popularity.

Well the girls I know went all soppy on the photos of Dave and Sam when she had that bump.

[Ah-so]

Ah - thanks for clearing that up.

i look forward to the condems saving us all.

So do I, because obviously the last administration is in denial about its over-spending and the loose monetary policy that led to the borrowing boom. I only hope the Anyone-But-Labour party plugs the hole in the sinking ship.

I have a political cartoon in my head of Gordon Brown as captain of a wooden ship, rubbing his hands over a lovely wooden fire in a self-congratulatory manner; behind him is a discarded axe next to hacked hole in the side of the vessel into which the water is flooding. If only I could draw more than a stick man.

[exiges]

What I don't get is how on one hand we're told that crime is at an all time low, and on the other we're told the prisons are fit to bursting..

[General Melchett]

What I don't get is how on one hand we're told that crime is at an all time low, and on the other we're told the prisons are fit to bursting..

Or that our kids have never been so bright and well educated and yet we dont have the skills we need and so need to import them.Etc.Hint: we are being systematically lied to, by this lot and the last and all their agents. Once you understand this, everything else makes perfect sense.

Edited September 11, 2010 by General Melchett

[Fergie]

except the under 35s with private sector jobs, that and the over-50s (most of them) who remember how this always happens due to a labour govt

basically people with more than 2 braincells will see thru this

You reckon?

I'm over 35 and don't work in the public sector. But I very clearly remember growing up during Thatcherism with a government that didn't give a f**k about people, that went all out to break areas and types of people they didn't like, that destroyed communities and made life far worse for the poorest in society while making things better for the rich.

We've had 10 years of a Labour government that was almost as right wing as the Tories and which I equally didn't like. I hated the fact that growth was built on debt, the deregulation of the banks, the Iraq war, ever-growing house prices etc. Fact is, the Tories would have been even worse. Their only criticism of the finance deregulation was "not enough, we need more, not quick enough". They supported the Iraq war, they supported the rich getting richer, including those with property.

Now we have a new Tory government and we're seeing exactly the same as we did with Thatcher - bashing of the poor, the sick, the union and favouring the rich over the poor.

There is nothing to see though. Labour - shite; Tories - shite and deeply nasty. And yes, people will notice when their jobs are slashed and their services are slashed, but yet their taxes and cost of living is still rising.

Edited September 11, 2010 by Fergie

[jaynewcastle]

You reckon?

Fact is, the Tories would have been even worse.

Personal opinions are just that, they're not facts at all, no matter how much you want them to be

[LJAR]

I believe i said "they are both as bad as each other"

And this is exactly the problem.

The Tories would have spent almost exactly the same amount of money (they planned on spending £6 billion less in their 2005 manifesto)

Thankfully there is a move to dismantle some of the worst excesses of the state (at the moment), this will be painful in the short term, but hopefully better in the longer term. I think that given how ridiculously bloated the state has become, we will be able to cut very substantially without affecting the overall standard of living in the country.

OT - as someone who grew up in another country (Canada) it always surprises me that no-one seems to like (or liked) Margaret thatcher, but she kept winning elections in a democracy. It strikes me that maybe people resented the unions politicking and trying to hold the country to ransom more than the "nasty" Tories.

[South Lorne]

There is nothing to see though. Labour - shite; Tories - shite and deeply nasty. And yes, people will notice when their jobs are slashed and their services are slashed, but yet their taxes and cost of living is still rising.

...what do you expect in a poor country which has been subjected to a Labour Party scorched earth policy which is almost beyond reach ..?.......we cannot afford very much anymore....it is beginning to dawn on people .....there is no place for the complacent, crooked and the lazy who think because they live in 'Great' Britain they will be 'alright' ....whatever.....

[Fergie]

Personal opinions are just that, they're not facts at all, no matter how much you want them to be

They are facts. The Tories didn't spend the last 10 years with their mouths shut. Maybe you weren't listening, but everything they said was either pro what Labour was doing, or saying it wasn't going far enough. Unless, of course, you can point to where the Tories were pleading with Labour not to deregulate the banks any more, not to let debt get out of control, to reign in the banks and house prices, not to go to war with Iraq?

[mikthe20]

They are facts. The Tories didn't spend the last 10 years with their mouths shut. Maybe you weren't listening, but everything they said was either pro what Labour was doing, or saying it wasn't going far enough. Unless, of course, you can point to where the Tories were pleading with Labour not to deregulate the banks any more, not to let debt get out of control, to reign in the banks and house prices, not to go to war with Iraq?

The LibDems DID do this, and now form part of the government. 

[Fergie]

And actually, very few people were stupid enough to vote Tory. Given that Labour under Gordon Brown was the most despised government we've seen in a long time, and the Tories were the only real alternative, they didn't exactly get a ringing endorsement from the electorate - they didn't even get a majority. And that was before the electorate saw the cuts, the bashing of public services and the poor etc. If you think they're going to get more popular after all that, you're deluded.

Edited September 11, 2010 by Fergie

[South Lorne]

And actually, very few people were stupid enough to vote Tory. Given that Labour under Gordon Brown was the most despised government we've seen in a long time, and the Tories were the only real alternative, they didn't exactly get a ringing endorsement from the electorate - they didn't even get a majority. And that was before the electorate saw the cuts, the bashing of public services and the poor etc. If you think they're going to get more popular after all that, you're deluded.

...and Labour were not going to make any the the £44 billion cuts they hinted at but never divulged ...?....just carry on as usual....with Stalinist Gordo getting everyone to rely on the 'State' ....even with no money left Liam Byrne still in the Treasury ....

[bogbrush]

They are facts. The Tories didn't spend the last 10 years with their mouths shut. Maybe you weren't listening, but everything they said was either pro what Labour was doing, or saying it wasn't going far enough. Unless, of course, you can point to where the Tories were pleading with Labour not to deregulate the banks any more, not to let debt get out of control, to reign in the banks and house prices, not to go to war with Iraq?

The nation was gorging itself on entitlements and debtwealth. If anyone proposed bringing the finances back they would have got about 10% of the vote.

I don't like that they pretended they were all for big spending but the reality of the situation was that they had every other numpty in the country beleiving that we had arrived in the land of milk and honey.

Anyway, I'm delighted reality is soon to return and the whole damn edifice can fall down. Sorry for the people as well, but time to pay the piper.

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

...and Labour were not going to make any the the £44 billion cuts they hinted at but never divulged ...?....just carry on as usual....with Stalinist Gordo getting everyone to rely on the 'State' ....even with no money left Liam Byrne still in the Treasury ....

that doesnt really change the politics of it, the idea that the current govt will become more popular as everyone gets relatively poorer, possibly a hell of alot poorer does seem to be delusion, particularly given Labour are currently laying the blame on any future economic fallout that was inevitable whoever won directly at the door of the current govt by the measures they are taking. Its politics and Labour seem to be far better at it than the Tories. I strongly believe they will be back in govt with a huge majority in under 3 years

Edited September 11, 2010 by Tamara De Lempicka

[South Lorne]

that doesnt really change the politics of it, the idea that the current govt will become more popular as everyone gets relatively poorer, possibly a hell of alot poorer does seem to be delusion, particularly given Labour are currently laying the blame on any economic fallout that was inevitable whoever won directly at the door of the current govt by the measures they are taking. Its politics and Labour seem to be far better at it than the Tories. I strongly believe they will be back in govt with a huge majority in under 3 years

...let's see Labour's revised policies and attempt at solutions for their scorched earth policies....when they make a mess and try to fix it becomes a bigger mess ....they are the party of onward and upward destruction ....this is not about academic socialism....it's about housekeeping .....would you put them in charge of the school tuck shop..?....no thanks...

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

...let's see Labour's revised policies and attempt at solutions for their scorched earth policies....when they make a mess and try to fix it becomes a bigger mess ....they are the party of onward and upward destruction ....this is not about academic socialism....it's about housekeeping .....would you put them in charge of the school tuck shop..?....no thanks...

well yes, but you do not have a casting vote, Labour left office with about 30% i think despite what they have done being obvious, they will have a massive majority added to that of disenchanted Lib Dems and middle class tories who may well lose everything over the coming years. Its a no brainer. The public will blame whoever is easiest for whats coming and that will be the ones in powere at the time. You can see this across the globe, alot of parties have come in in the last two years and their ratings are already rockbottom because they just happen to be there at this moment in time as their constituents realise more and more they arent actually rich anymore

Edited September 11, 2010 by Tamara De Lempicka

[South Lorne]

well yes, but you do not have a casting vote, Labour left office with about 30% i think despite what they have done being obvious, they will have a massive majority added to that of disenchanted Lib Dems and middle class tories who may well lose everything over the coming years. Its a no brainer. The public will blame whoever is easiest for whats coming and that will be the ones in powere at the time. You can see this across the globe, alot of parties have come in in the last two years and their ratings are already rockbottom because they just happen to be there at this moment in time as their constituents realise more and more they arent actually rich anymore

...this was anticipated before the election...and was suggested it would be a good election for the Tories to lose and let Labour clean up it's own mess ..we know they would not and could not .. ..at least the coalition is a compromise and gives us half a chance over the next few years before the trendy lefty Milliband and dishevelled Balls and Cooper make a come back.....

[ralphmalph]

And actually, very few people were stupid enough to vote Tory. Given that Labour under Gordon Brown was the most despised government we've seen in a long time, and the Tories were the only real alternative, they didn't exactly get a ringing endorsement from the electorate - they didn't even get a majority. And that was before the electorate saw the cuts, the bashing of public services and the poor etc. If you think they're going to get more popular after all that, you're deluded.

You have a short memory. George Osbourne gave a speech at the Tory party conference before the election saying that cuts were inevitable and that there was pain to come. Brown siezed on this and at first said that there would be no spending reductions under labour at all only Labour investment versus nasty Tory cuts.

The Tories did not get a massive majority because of various reasons but one was that they tried to be semi honest with the electorate over the cuts to come (there had to be cuts but they did not let on the scale of the cuts required) another was that the Welfare State of Scotland voted tribally to keep the benefits gravy train running at full pelt by voting en masse for Labour and Brown.

Also because of Labour gerrymandering the voting system if Labour had polled the votes that the Tories did and vice-a-versa then Labour would have had a substantial majority.

[ralphmalph]

well yes, but you do not have a casting vote, Labour left office with about 30% i think despite what they have done being obvious, they will have a massive majority added to that of disenchanted Lib Dems and middle class tories who may well lose everything over the coming years. Its a no brainer. The public will blame whoever is easiest for whats coming and that will be the ones in powere at the time. You can see this across the globe, alot of parties have come in in the last two years and their ratings are already rockbottom because they just happen to be there at this moment in time as their constituents realise more and more they arent actually rich anymore

If you do not think that the Torys have a plan to counter this then I think that is a mistake.

They have always planned to get the majority of the cuts out of the way before the Olympics in 2012. Then after the fwwlgood created by the Olympics, lots of TV time to Queenie and successful British sports people they will start to drip out concessions to the electorate in terms of nice but affordable spending and tax cuts, etc. Ready for the election in 2015. This is why they have tied the Lib Dims in for 5 years the last 2 years will be when the Lib Dims get there pay back so they can say to thier supporters at the election look what we did and the Torys will say because we governed so well it was not as bad as it would have been under Labour.

Time will tell and economic growth especially in the north, midlands, wales and Scotland will be required and be the final arbiter in whether the Torys get a second term.

[okaycuckoo]

Will the coalition collapse? I doubt it - very durable form of government in other european countries, although the presence of more smaller parties seems to give the required flexibility. But if it does, that may benefit the tories at the subsequent poll.

Anyway, the hampshire police chief stated that he expects 1400 job losses if the government sticks to 25% cuts, but added that the force could maintain its current service with 10% cuts (implying that that was the proportion of taxpayer's money being pissed up against the wall).

I wonder if that 10% will be the sticking point right across the board, say in two years. At that point public sector services won't have been affected so much that the electorate is revolted, and the government may have room to delay the remaining 15% into its anticipated second term.

[otters]

+1

Right or wrong, all most people will see is years under labour with a high standard of living and years under condem with a low standard of living.

[/quote

That we couldn't afford.

[IP Newcomer]

I'm affraid most of the public do care, you are totally and wrong. We haven't seen the cuts yet and once they hit you will see the public backlash, its a matter of time. The unions involved will go to war on the government and the coalition will fail.

People in this country are all very I'm all right jack, but when its their job or their services they complain like hell, especially when taxes are rising and the cost of living is at rocket speed.

Yes but as long as Labour and the unions are in denial they'll be the ones who are blamed.