Self Build

[leefam83]

I've learnt quite a bit on this forum from some very clever people. Economics is a whole new ball game to me but I've suspected for years the bubble we lived in. Now that the crash is starting to get underway I'm making plans to begin a self build in about a year or so. Approx saving is 30% against buying a house from an EA.

With all the brainpower I see on this forum I'm surprised this hasn't ever been discussed Or has it and I've missed it?

A good example of what can be done is on the Potton website. www.potton.co.uk

You dont have to be that handy either , they offer a fully managed scheme if you dont see youself as a project manager.

The trick of course is finding a plot. The financing is as difficult as you make it. The rewards ........ approx 30% saving. A lot of wedge !

[OnlyMe]

As you say the plot is the problem. Little point in saving money on a build if you are still gettting caned for the land in the first place.

Land prices are actually the thing the needs to and will devalue.

Edited September 5, 2005 by OnlyMe

[Blue Peter]

The trick of course is finding a plot. The financing is as difficult as you make it. The rewards ........ approx 30% saving. A lot of wedge !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that it's been discussed on this forum (but I'm new so I might be wrong), but effectively, house price inflation is home building plot inflation. So, as house prices fall, so should building plots,

Peter.

[leefam83]

As you say the plot is the problem. Little point in saving money on a build if you are still gettting caned for the land in the first place.

Land prices are actually the thing the needs to and will devalue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Timing .... it's all in the timing. I reckon 18 months .

[Vest Interest]

I thought self-build was the answer too, but have been unable to find a decent plot in the SE that I can afford to build on. From what I've seen, plots around Cambridge are more over-priced even than houses. The figure of 30% saving is probably accurate, but to get a sniff of the action you need to be looking at the executive / luxury type of house to be able to justify shelling out £250k for a medium-sized chunk of land. Professional developers seem to get there pretty quick and land often seems to go only to those with pockets deep enough to pay cash.

The only plots I've come across that are affordable have been the dodgy half of someone's garden next to a main road, where you have room for a house but can forget parking, garden, etc. It might be a good way to get a house but Grand Designs it ain't.

My fear about investing all the effort and heartache it takes to build a house, on a plot that starts off being compromised, is that in the event of a crash, that type of place will be less desirable and hard to sell - that 30% 'saving' might be wiped off pretty quick.

I'm still looking, dreaming, sketching..... subscribing to Build It magazine etc.... but have all but lost hope. I'm told that things are easier elsewhere and in Scotland it's very much an option even for first-timers.

[the don]

ive been looking for a good self build plot for 3 years.

nothing worth having at reasonable prices.

definitely a good option if you can project manage builders.

a good 4 bed house should cost c £100k excluding land.

IMHO plots should be <£100k.

the new planning guidance from ODPM may help to free up land.

at the momt the bi deeloeps snap up all developable land and self builders are lucky to get the least desirable plots.

in northern europe, self build is the norm. they dont have companies like wimpey dominating the new build market.

[leefam83]

I thought self-build was the answer too, but have been unable to find a decent plot in the SE that I can afford to build on.  From what I've seen, plots around Cambridge are more over-priced even than houses.  The figure of 30% saving is probably accurate, but to get a sniff of the action you need to be looking at the executive / luxury type of house to be able to justify shelling out £250k for a medium-sized chunk of land.  Professional developers seem to get there pretty quick and land often seems to go only to those with pockets deep enough to pay cash.

The only plots I've come across that are affordable have been the dodgy half of someone's garden next to a main road, where you have room for a house but can forget parking, garden, etc.  It might be a good way to get a house but Grand Designs it ain't. 

My fear about investing all the effort and heartache it takes to build a house, on a plot that starts off being compromised, is that in the event of a crash, that type of place will be less desirable and hard to sell - that 30% 'saving' might be wiped off pretty quick.

I'm still looking, dreaming, sketching..... subscribing to Build It magazine etc.... but have all but lost hope.  I'm told that things are easier elsewhere and in Scotland it's very much an option even for first-timers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

18 months . New legislation and post crash . Things will look different . Keep your chin up

[leefam83]

ive been looking for a good self build plot for 3 years.

nothing worth having at reasonable prices.

definitely a good option if you can project manage builders.

a good 4 bed house should  cost c £100k excluding land.

IMHO plots should be <£100k.

the new planning guidance from ODPM may help to free up land.

at the momt the bi deeloeps snap up all developable land and self builders are lucky to get the least desirable plots.

in northern europe, self build is the norm. they dont have companies like wimpey dominating the new build market.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree . I think the new legislation just might make it doable after the crash.

New term for me bi deeloeps ?? Building developers ?? Not being snotty just dont understand.

[the don]

apologies

my typing is a bit dyslexic

i posted before i edited the typos

[The Masked Tulip]

IMPO the whole issue of how building land becomes available, and what land miraculously gets building permission, in the UK is somewhat dodgy to say the least.

[Hairlocks]

the new planning guidance from ODPM may help to free up land.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Does anyone understand the new planning guidance from ODPM, enough to post what it means to the potential self-builder is laymans terms. I had a look at the website and I haven't got a few days to spend deciphering it.

thanks

[HollandPark]

this might be of interest here:

http://www.homebuildingshow.co.uk/

The Homebuilding and Renovating show was first established in 1992 for self-builders and renovators.

This exhibition helps people realise their dream of self-building or creating their perfect home through renovations.

The successful self-build shows have grown steadily over the last 15 years and there are now 6 homebuilding & Renovating shows including The National, which is our flagship event plus major events at ExCel in London and SECC in Glasgow as well as 3 smaller regional shows. All of the Homebuilding & Renovating Shows provide an invaluable resource for self-builders and renovators.

Each event creates an exciting and stimulating place where you can meet hundreds of exhibitors, gain free one to one advice from the Homebuilding & Renovating Magazine and local experts, attend free seminar programmes, discover the latest products and services, learn about the best financial packages and find your dream plot of land ready for development.

[HollandPark]

land prices will go up and down with other property,

but price moves for land may be even more exaggerated

Edited September 5, 2005 by HollandPark

[VacantPossession]

land prices wil go up and down with otherproperty,

but price moves may be even me exaggerted

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have long considered a self build. The biggest problem, as highlighted above, is finding the land. The reality is that developers get to cherry pick land because councils want to subscribe to J Prescott's build more houses policy and there is great relaxation of some former strict rules. However, going it alone is not so easy, and if you have little knowledge of mixing cement or structural engineering (which includes me) you can very quickly swallow up all the potential savings.

I have seen many self build brochures which paint a picture of paradise. The reality is that many people (from what I've researched) live a nightmare for a couple of years, or more, the project is ALWAYS delayed, the budget always runs over, and it takes a great deal of time and energy which in earnings-per-hour terms can obliterate the perceived 30% cost saving.

Bottom line: self build if you can afford to and can risk the equivalent of the full cost of conventional housing if things go pear shape. Finding the land, then getting the planning permission is a whole nightmare adventure all by itself.

In conclusion: proceed with caution.

VP

[waitandsee]

There are also many stories of brown envelopes changing hands at local planning meetings with backhanders, that is a real shame I think, especially as generally the big developers have little interest in providing decently sized gardens and seem only interested in the greatest possible square footage on the least possible land

[Guest rigsby II]

I drove past this about a month ago. It still needs finishing off.

Bought land for £45k in 2002

http://www.houseprices.co.uk/e.php?q=Plot+...ncolnshire&n=10

Not sure whats happened with the sale at £249,995 because its on and has been on since 18-5-2004 at £285,000 with these

http://www.gricehunter.co.uk/photodatabase...tail.php?Id=704

How much would this cost to build, simple calculation gives £240,000 to play with.

If they can sell it for that, which they can't

Nice work if you can get it....

Edited September 5, 2005 by rigsby II

[Dames]

A ray of hope for you, a plot I looked at in Mar 05 was £140k , sold for £135K , now back on market ( dont nkow why althoug access was tightish ) for £120k.

14%ish drop.

Didnt like the plot myself but it did have PP for a 4 Bed , reasonably nice are as well.

D

[HollandPark]

Anyone planning to go to the exhibition at Excell, in late September?

[Elizabeth]

There are also many stories of brown envelopes changing hands at local planning meetings with backhanders, that is a real shame I think, especially as generally the big developers have little interest in providing decently sized gardens and seem only interested in the greatest possible square footage on the least possible land

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't know about the brown paper envelopes (it could be true but I couldn't say) however the real problem is that if councils refuse consent then the big companies (based on planning laws of course) the companies just tie them up in litigation and eventually win because they have the ear of central government and I think it has got to the point where the councils are so resigned that they just go OK, whatever. That is why self builders have to dip out. The big place to look for plots is

www.buildstore.co.uk

you have to subscribe but it only list land with planning permission or permission likely and doesn't have a VI in the sale itself - not like these dodgy schemes that offer to sell the land with the caveate that IF you get planning permission, WHEN you sell your house they get a 10% take on that as well (whole house value, not just plot gain). No risk, no obligation. The self building land market is even dodgier than the housing market. Most blocks available don't have and are not likely to get planning permission in the foreseeable future. As everyone keeps pointing out, there is not much out there for a reasonable price.

[IP Newcomer]

I looked into self build about three to four years ago. Essentially my dream is of a mortgage free existence (but commutable to London). Land prices are so high that self build really comes into its own in the South East if you are looking at building that dream house of four or five bedrooms. For something smaller I decided that it was better to (1) look at something smaller, (2) commute a long distance into London and (3) wait til prices had corrected a bit.

I would still like to do a new build, but in the South East existing housing stock is really the only way to go unless you already have the money or desire to borrow for the dream

On the bright side self building should be easier as one of the tips to get a self build plot has been to buy a plot off a developer who is short of working capital but still has a land bank with detailed planning permission. I would expect quite a few of them in the next couple of years.

[nobody]

Of course you could just buy a cheap field and move onto it with a mobile (fixed) caravan, generators, etc. PP doesn't apply to travellers or gypsys anymore

[Guest Bart of Darkness]

I've looked into self build also, but finding the land was obviously the big stumbling block.

What is the best way to do a search for available land in the UK? I've seen companies on the Internet who will do a search for you but is there one source of info to be preferred over the others?

Nice link leefam83, I've bookmarked it for possible future use.

Anybody had any dealings with Potton or visited their show centre?

[the don]

I have long considered a self build. The biggest problem, as highlighted above, is finding the land. The reality is that developers get to cherry pick land because councils want to subscribe to J Prescott's build more houses policy and there is great relaxation of some former strict rules. However, going it alone is not so easy, and if you have little knowledge of mixing cement or structural engineering (which includes me) you can very quickly swallow up all the potential savings.

I have seen many self build brochures which paint a picture of paradise. The reality is that many people (from what I've researched) live a nightmare for a couple of years, or more, the project is ALWAYS delayed, the budget always runs over, and it takes a great deal of time and energy which in earnings-per-hour terms can obliterate the perceived 30% cost saving.

Bottom line: self build if you can afford to and can risk the equivalent of the full cost of conventional housing if things go pear shape. Finding the land, then getting the planning permission is a whole nightmare adventure all by itself.

In conclusion: proceed with caution.

VP

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sensible comments

it is no differently to any business venture. if you dont know what you are doing you will probably lose money

many self builders without building experience hire a project manager to supervise the build programme.

they pay a set fee and the project manager has to work within an agreed budget, design crtiteria etc.

this takes the risk away, providing you hire a competent project manager.

the self builder is free to go about their normal job without too much disruption

[Dames]

I've looked into self build also, but finding the land was obviously the big stumbling block.

What is the best way to do a search for available land in the UK? I've seen companies on the Internet who will do a search for you but is there one source of info to be preferred over the others?

Nice link leefam83, I've bookmarked it for possible future use.

Anybody had any dealings with Potton or visited their show centre?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The first two are subscription , plotfinder is annual and plotsearch is a one off payment.You get 5 counties with plotfinder and 3 with plotsearch .

Of course rightmove is free but some plots do come up on there that are on the other 2 sites.

http://www.plotfinder.net/

http://www.buildstore.co.uk/myproject/fst-...e-plothome.html

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/action/EmailUpdatesAction ( use the land filter on the search feature.

D

[Dames]

Finding the land, then getting the planning permission is a whole nightmare adventure all by itself.

how do you know if you havent done it?

D