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Should Scientists Be Dishonest To Convince Us?


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Well, New Zealand was getting cooler in the actual temperature measurements but warmer once the 'scientists' had finished 'adjusting' them to use in their computer models, so the correct answer would appear to be 'both'.

Well, that was my point.

What is a fact? Something that someone claims is the truth?

Injins phylosophy is built on incontrovertible facts

The problems is that in 'reality' there is no such thing as incontrovertible facts

:rolleyes:

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BTW - at the risk of causing a kerfuffle

Have a group of posters left or been banned while I was 'on a break' ?

I used to really enjoy winding up Steve Cook the psychologist with no understanding of human psychology and Absolute Zero the teacher with an IQ of -273.

And what the heck is this secret UF board?

Was I on their blacklist?

I would be gutted if I wasn't.

And try as I might, how come I never get banned from anywhere?

:blink:

See my blinky emoticon - he's blinking - AT YOU!!!!!

:lol:

There's no blacklist, Game_Over, come on over and join the fun. Clean slate and all that. "Unsustainable future" is your friend in Google.

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The general public are somewhat distrustful of science anyway. The rise of the New Age movement reflects this.

If scientists perpetuate fraud to advance a particular cause, that simply reduces science to the level of an interpretative belief system that you can accept or reject.

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Well, New Zealand was getting cooler in the actual temperature measurements but warmer once the 'scientists' had finished 'adjusting' them to use in their computer models, so the correct answer would appear to be 'both'.

That is atrocious. So scientists have been fiddling with raw data for political reasons? It's no wonder trust is lost.

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My view is that scientists are just people who couldn't brave the outside world so stayed at uni. Left-wingers seem to see them as some sort of fount of honesty and truth. I agree with having policy guided by scientist's advice but always have in mind Eisenhower's quote that, "in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite".

I feel the latter has already happened with climate science, and the enviromentalists involved have converged on that science in order to influence public policy based not on the best science but instead on their own political leanings.

Science is being abused for political means.

Ironically there is evidence that there are many on the right doing exactly that.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=150006

A book out recently puts forward the case, with evidence, that a group of right-wing scientists have been on a decades-long campaign to spread disinformation about various issues and the scientific community itself. In fact the idea that the scientific community might be, en masse, pushing left-wing views, probably originates from them.

Are you prepared to consider that the book could be at least partly correct, and that you've been fooled?

Would you reserve the same ire for those on the right abusing science for political means, or is your view on this simply pre-determined by your political leanings?

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There's no blacklist, Game_Over, come on over and join the fun. Clean slate and all that. "Unsustainable future" is your friend in Google.

Thanks for the reply.

I think the point people here are missing is that the appeal of this site is that it is full of 'nutters' who are convinced they are geniuses arguing with each other.

If all the interesting 'nutters' leave - what is left?

Answer - the boring nutters

I'll get my coat ................

:blink:

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Just to throw in my two cents. There is ample evidence for global warming. In New Zealand they have observational and even photographs of the Franz Joseph and Fox glaciers going back to the mid eighteen hundreds that show the retreat of said glaciers by miles. There is no doubt at all that the climate there is warming up but since it has been going on ever since records were kept we could reasonably deduce it was going on before records were kept. The question is not really whether the NZ climate is warming but what is causing it and is it global. Here is Canada I can personally tell you that over the last forty years the climate is dramatically warmer than it was. I used to live in the Soo and now live in Southern Ontario and There is a total change of weather in both places. We used to get so much snow we didn't know where to put it. Temperatures would be hovering around -30 for weeks at a time. There is no weather like that anymore. last winter I didn't even shovel the drive once! Forty years ago we got two cuts of hay and some years got a poor third cut. These days we get a guaranteed three cuts and a pretty good fourth.

Even so I don't trust those scientists as far as I could throw them because they all say it is my fault. Well where I live used to be under 3000 feet of ice and probably many of you can say the same. What melted that friggin' lot?

Global warming, at least in New Zealand and Canada, is pretty much established but the scientists are trying to blame the taxpayer. Since most scientists get paid by tax payers methinks they are pulling a fast one. Not on the existence, but on the cause, and there is the rub because most people are too dumb to recognise the difference.

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Just to throw in my two cents. There is ample evidence for global warming. In New Zealand they have observational and even photographs of the Franz Joseph and Fox glaciers going back to the mid eighteen hundreds that show the retreat of said glaciers by miles. There is no doubt at all that the climate there is warming up but since it has been going on ever since records were kept we could reasonably deduce it was going on before records were kept. The question is not really whether the NZ climate is warming but what is causing it and is it global. Here is Canada I can personally tell you that over the last forty years the climate is dramatically warmer than it was. I used to live in the Soo and now live in Southern Ontario and There is a total change of weather in both places. We used to get so much snow we didn't know where to put it. Temperatures would be hovering around -30 for weeks at a time. There is no weather like that anymore. last winter I didn't even shovel the drive once! Forty years ago we got two cuts of hay and some years got a poor third cut. These days we get a guaranteed three cuts and a pretty good fourth.

Even so I don't trust those scientists as far as I could throw them because they all say it is my fault. Well where I live used to be under 3000 feet of ice and probably many of you can say the same. What melted that friggin' lot?

Global warming, at least in New Zealand and Canada, is pretty much established but the scientists are trying to blame the taxpayer. Since most scientists get paid by tax payers methinks they are pulling a fast one. Not on the existence, but on the cause, and there is the rub because most people are too dumb to recognise the difference.

Technically the scientists are saying that it is due to industry, according to them the biggest source of greenhouse gases. Various politicians and financiers, not scientists, would prefer that general public pay the bill.

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Just to throw in my two cents. There is ample evidence for global warming. In New Zealand they have observational and even photographs of the Franz Joseph and Fox glaciers going back to the mid eighteen hundreds that show the retreat of said glaciers by miles. There is no doubt at all that the climate there is warming up but since it has been going on ever since records were kept we could reasonably deduce it was going on before records were kept. The question is not really whether the NZ climate is warming but what is causing it and is it global. Here is Canada I can personally tell you that over the last forty years the climate is dramatically warmer than it was. I used to live in the Soo and now live in Southern Ontario and There is a total change of weather in both places. We used to get so much snow we didn't know where to put it. Temperatures would be hovering around -30 for weeks at a time. There is no weather like that anymore. last winter I didn't even shovel the drive once! Forty years ago we got two cuts of hay and some years got a poor third cut. These days we get a guaranteed three cuts and a pretty good fourth.

Even so I don't trust those scientists as far as I could throw them because they all say it is my fault. Well where I live used to be under 3000 feet of ice and probably many of you can say the same. What melted that friggin' lot?

Global warming, at least in New Zealand and Canada, is pretty much established but the scientists are trying to blame the taxpayer. Since most scientists get paid by tax payers methinks they are pulling a fast one. Not on the existence, but on the cause, and there is the rub because most people are too dumb to recognise the difference.

But New Zealand isn't warming, that is what the previous poster was saying. The only way the data show warming is after the scientists have tampered with it to make it show warming. The raw data shows no warming for NZ.

In terms of globally, we seem to have seen something like a 0.3c warming since 1970 which is nothing really. Trying to explain that is like trying to explain every 5 point movement in the FTSE, it's just not worth explaining. Climate can change by much more without any apparent cause. It changed by just as much in the early part of the 20th century for example.

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