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SarahBell

Banks Make People On Dole Pay Back Their Debts

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It's all legal.

Banks can move money from an account in credit to one in debit.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11185164

But people on the dole are having their benefits taken to pay off their credit card debts and being left with no money.

My initial thought it that the CAB seems to do a lot of work defending people in massive debt and it's probably about time they just told people "You have to pay back what you spend".

http://www.somersetcountygazette.co.uk/news/8347201._Astonishing_level_of_debt____CAB/

Taunton - There were more CAB-assisted bankruptcies last year and 75 Debt Relief Orders.

The CAB stick up for the poor...

http://www.beatmydebt.com/news-articles/government-wastes-6-point-6-billion-pounds-failing-to-help-people-struggling-with-debt.htm

The government is wasting £6.6bn a year by failing to step in early to help people struggling with debt, according to charity Citizens Advice (CAB).

It also urged government to keep an eye on mortgage arrears and homeowner debt problems, claiming that early intervention to help homeowners would avoid repossession costs for the Treasury estimated to be £16,000 per case.

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1st rule of bank crisis survival..

Have at least 2 bank accounts and at different Organisations.

the small print in all accounts means the bank can take a balance from one to make up another...

People should know this.

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1st rule of bank crisis survival..

Have at least 2 bank accounts and at different Organisations.

the small print in all accounts means the bank can take a balance from one to make up another...

People should know this.

surely thats the second rule, the first needs to be marry a princess, think how much youll inherit when she gets her noggin lopped off

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From the BBC article:

John Gates, from Brixton in south London, has a £4,000 debt on his credit card.

He relies on housing benefit and Job Seeker's Allowance for his income.

On at least four occasions his bank took money out of his current account to put towards the credit card debt. It only informed him afterwards.

After paying for his rent, John says that left him with just £3 a day to live on.

I have a lot of sympathy for him, banks should not be allowed to move money between customers' accounts without permission, but really a single person should be able to live on £3 a day after housing costs if they are unemployed, at least for a little while. £21 a week for food and toiletries is plenty, you can eat meat and fresh fruit every day on that much. John may not realise it but the bank is, in a strange way, doing him a favour. He doesn't have the self discipline to pay down his debts (which are accruing credit card interest rates!), so the bank is doing it for him.

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surely thats the second rule, the first needs to be marry a princess, think how much youll inherit when she gets her noggin lopped off

damn, I thought this was a non serious thread....

Of course, get a princess is the first rule...specially for the wife...saves all that effort every other Saturday...you can bank on it.

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From the BBC article:

I have a lot of sympathy for him, banks should not be allowed to move money between customers' accounts without permission, but really a single person should be able to live on £3 a day after housing costs if they are unemployed, at least for a little while. £21 a week for food and toiletries is plenty, you can eat meat and fresh fruit every day on that much. John may not realise it but the bank is, in a strange way, doing him a favour. He doesn't have the self discipline to pay down his debts (which are accruing credit card interest rates!), so the bank is doing it for him.

Or maybe John has a standing order to pay the minimum every month he failed to cancel.??

Or maybe John was too lazy to contact the CC company/bank and tell them his predicament.

protect YOURSELF.

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1st rule of bank crisis survival..

Have at least 2 bank accounts and at different Organisations.

the small print in all accounts means the bank can take a balance from one to make up another...

People should know this.

Excellent advice.

Of course banks have the right of offset. Different 'accounts' are just for day to day accounting convenience. The customer is either an overall creditor or debtor of the bank. In this case a debtor.

The bloke in the article should ensure his benefits aren't paid into the same bank where he owes money on his credit card or has a loan or overdraft. That said, the bank shouldn't be offsetting monies he needs for day to day living expenses (Dole) but I dare say they'll offset first and ask questions later 'cause they're insolvent more than he is.

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first right of appropriation

Under common law you have a right of appropriation over your own money and money you pay to another.

If a bank informs you it will be taking money from your account to pay itself, for any reason, charges, offset of another account/loan, or just to be swallowed up by an unauthorised overdraft and you can't afford for them to take the money, then you MAY be able to use the Right of Appropriation to stop them taking the money temporarily.

Linky

Problem is the banks don't tell you they are going to do it.

Edited by injustice

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Take control of your finances. Take posession of physical Gold or Silver.

They can't prove anything. You could have even lost it in a boating accident..

You as well? I was yachting around the Isle of Wight when a heavy squall washed my suitcase full of my personal effects (including my precious gold collection) into the Solent. How I wept!

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I'm nostalgic for the old fornightly Giro!

First Post Office, then Pub! :huh:

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I'm nostalgic for the old fornightly Giro!

First Post Office, then Pub! :huh:

My brother used to put it all on a horse at the bookies.

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It's all legal.

Banks can move money from an account in credit to one in debit.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11185164

But people on the dole are having their benefits taken to pay off their credit card debts and being left with no money.

Sounds fair to me. Scrounging deadbeats should pay what they owe.

We urgently need fairer bankruptcy laws so more people pay their debts.

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I'm nostalgic for the old fornightly Giro!

First Post Office, then Pub! :huh:

Mine turned up on a Saturday morning which meant a walk all the way across the road to the post office before 12.

;-/

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Sounds fair to me. Scrounging deadbeats should pay what they owe.

We urgently need fairer bankruptcy laws so more people pay their debts.

Shame that credit cards are a scam and no money was loaned though, eh?

Wrong target. Banking scams must end, stop blaming victims please.

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Sounds fair to me. Scrounging deadbeats should pay what they owe.

Weren't you amongst that happy throng in the banking world who still have a job due to bailouts via public money- when are you going to pay back a bit of that action?

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Wrong target. Banking scams must end, stop blaming victims please.

Victims? Since when did pissing up a load of other peoples money against the wall and then dragging your feet over the repayments mean you're being victimised?

The banks and their creditors are the only victims here.

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Victims? Since when did pissing up a load of other peoples money against the wall and then dragging your feet over the repayments mean you're being victimised?

Since the banks didn't have any money and merely lied.

The banks and their creditors are the only victims here.

Nope.

The banks told peope they had money to lend.

They didn't.

Fraud. both the borrower and the creditor are victims of fraud. The bank has sole responsibility. The debts aren't valid because they were based on a lie, but the bankers still owe, because they told that lie.

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Since the banks didn't have any money and merely lied.

This may come as a surprise but banks do actually hold cash, therefore you're incorrect. I could turn up to Nationwide on Monday and ask for a £5k loan, an amount that they do have on site. Therefore even with your absurd definitions banks don't commit fraud every time they loan cash.

Nope.

The banks told peope they had money to lend.

They didn't.

Fraud. both the borrower and the creditor are victims of fraud. The bank has sole responsibility. The debts aren't valid because they were based on a lie, but the bankers still owe, because they told that lie.

This is nonsense. Someobody borrowed some money and bought some stuff with it, now they have to pay back what they owe. It's an easy concept to grasp once you cut out all the horseshit.

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This may come as a surprise but banks do actually hold cash, therefore you're incorrect. I could turn up to Nationwide on Monday and ask for a £5k loan, an amount that they do have on site. Therefore even with your absurd definitions banks don't commit fraud every time they loan cash.

97% of the time, they do. Not only that but this is a crucial point it's not their cash.

This is nonsense. Someobody borrowed some money and bought some stuff with it, now they have to pay back what they owe. It's an easy concept to grasp once you cut out all the horseshit.

Nope.

Someone asked to borrow money. The person they asked to borrow the money from didn't have any to lend but put on a good front as though they did. Goods changed hands.

No money did.

The person who asked to borrow money doesn't owe because what they asked for never happened.

Banking is a con job, a fraud. Fraudulent contracts aren't valid. It's an easy enough concept to get your head around.

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97% of the time, they do. Not only that but this is a crucial point it's not their cash.

That's funny becasue only a moment ago you made this claim:

Any money in a bank belongs to the bank.

You're obviously confusing yourself.

Nope.

Someone asked to borrow money. The person they asked to borrow the money from didn't have any to lend but put on a good front as though they did. Goods changed hands.

No money did.

The person who asked to borrow money doesn't owe because what they asked for never happened.

Banking is a con job, a fraud. Fraudulent contracts aren't valid. It's an easy enough concept to get your head around.

Both parties were clearly satisfied that bank digits were as good as cash, if they're both happy and got what they wanted then technical claims over counting out notes and coins become irrelevent. The banks havn't defrauded anyone, which is why they're explicitly trusted by 99.9% of the population. It's only the internet conspiracy theorists that seem to have the problem, which is why I suggest they avoid using the banking system if they feel that strongly about it.

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That's funny becasue only a moment ago you made this claim:

That's the legal position. Tell it to anyone on the high street and you'll get a very confused look. Not that anyone is lying or anything on the banking end of things. Oh no.

You're obviously confusing yourself.

Not at all. The actual position being different from the perceived is the essence of fraud.

Both parties were clearly satisfied that bank digits were as good as cash, if they're both happy and got what they wanted then technical claims over counting out notes and coins become irrelevent.

If by "happy" you mean "fooled" then yes. "You were perfectly happy with the fake money when I gave you it" isn't actually a defence. Guess what buddy? It's still a fruad even if the victim never realises.

The banks havn't defrauded anyone, which is why they're explicitly trusted by 99.9% of the population. It's only the internet conspiracy theorists that seem to have the problem, which is why I suggest they avoid using the banking system if they feel that strongly about it.

The banks have defrauded pretty nearly everyone and the fact that people have fallen for it en masse isn't a defence or refutation of that fraud.

you need a logical coherent position that's not based on "people aren't complaining about me conning them, therefore it's alright."

Work for a bank or some other theft based organistion, by any chance, btw?

Edited by Injin

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Now we've established that only 97% of banking is fraud (using your strict interpretation) could you revise your claim that all banking is fraud?

Given how strongly you feel about these issues it's only fair, we couldn't have you making fraudulent claims now could we? It would put you in the same league as the bankers.

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  • 142 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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