Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Bloomberg: Gold Rallying To $1,500 As Soros's Bubble Inflates


Recommended Posts

There are between 45-99 paper ounces chasing every physical ounce of gold

Can someone on here who agrees with this please cite some independent sources to verify this and register any interest you may have in gold movement in either direction.

Naturally we will all be agog if the assertion has a basis.

If its just speculation then please start a separate thread from the ones containing technical analysis of gold movements by people who declare their interests.

Threads that have a mixture of detailed, sober discussion about the role of Gold in a balanced portfolio, interleaved with deluded rants about gold nuggets being the only real money which the impending police state will seize at gunpoint are very, very irritating, aren't they?

Or is it just me?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 102
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I sold my gold in bullionvault somewhere around £780 before the dip after buying in at £700, and used it instead to ride the ftse up a little bit.

I'm convinced now is the time to buy back in, and would be surprised if it didn't reach $1,500 by christmas.

This time however, it needs to be physical gold.

Can anyone offer some advice on how to do this?

Store it in a bank vault?

Hide it under the floorboards?

Does home contents insurance cover gold bars?..

There are some very smart people saying gold will crash in price, but I've not read any good reasoning or explanation behind this. Would be very keen to read that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not really. There's little practical different between a service such as BullionVault and an ETF.

The only real differences are:

1. BullionVault lets you choose the location to store your gold, whereas the ETFs store in which ever vault they have available.

2. The ETFs are more liquid and more accurately track the spot price of gold. BullionVault and GoldMoney buy/sell prices do occasionally drift a bit, as they don't have such an efficient system as the ETFs for depositing/removing gold from their vault.

3. ETFs can be held tax-free (or tax-deferred) in an ISA or SIPP, whereas BullionVault/Goldmoney accounts can't.

As others have mentioned, this isn't true.

BV and GM keep full reserves - they are basically a storage service for PMs. They are audited regularly with and discrepancies reported. They are also insured.

ETFs are 'promises to pay' the gold on demand. Classic fractional reserve banking stuff. There are far more promises to pay, than there is physical gold (50:1+, the last time I read).

Of course, BV and GM could have the independent auditors in their pockets and there could be widespread fraud, but I see/hear little evidence of this. The latter even had a run a few years back, after a large company with gold investments was liquidated and GM just handed them their money. With full reserve storage, a bank run is harmless, as they have what people are running for. With fractional reserve storage, it's first come, first serve, with the rest left waiting for liquidation proceedings and a chance of only getting pennies in the pound.

EDIT: P.S. Ofc, holding physical is the best way to know it's safe, but then you have to keep it safe somewhere and it's harder to liquidate (easiest via a jewellers, I heard), unless you can trade the gold as money directly with someone (or use 'cash 4 gold' or some such! :lol:). BV/GM seem a good compromise between safety and liquidity, IMO.

Edited by Traktion
Link to post
Share on other sites

have you actually *SEEN* your gold, or are you just assuming they've bought it?

When you buy shares in a manufacturer, have you actually made the journey to SEE the factory? Or do you trust the information in the public domain and the contract?

When you buy bonds, have you actually SEEN a pile of money in a vault with which you will be paid back? Or do you trust the information in the public domain and the contract?

Virtually no investment in a sophisticated economy can be transparently assessed by the investor. (Physical gold is an exception, if you are prepared to pay to have your own assay done.) The question is whether gold companies are uniquely risky in this regard. I don't see that they are.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I sold my gold in bullionvault somewhere around £780 before the dip after buying in at £700, and used it instead to ride the ftse up a little bit.

I'm convinced now is the time to buy back in, and would be surprised if it didn't reach $1,500 by christmas.

This time however, it needs to be physical gold.

Can anyone offer some advice on how to do this?

Store it in a bank vault?

Hide it under the floorboards?

Does home contents insurance cover gold bars?..

Just buy shares in African Barrick Gold from your stockbroker seems the easiest way to me. Plus you get a tiny dividend too.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact that Rothschild has got tied in with Bullionvault is enough to make me take my money/gold out.

If you put any of your wealth anywhere near the Rothschild you deserve to lose it.

very interesting

you'll have some justifying their action by saying it will make it "secure".

ahm

I'll say go back to history & learn about money,banking & deception.

Link to post
Share on other sites

he is exactly right. An etf is paper gold. BV and goldmoney allow you to buy an ammount of gold but it is not yours.

You can only take delivery of london good delivery bars which are 400ozt. So unless you have paid in £340k and want your 400oz bar delivered they aint gonna be chopping off a few ounces here and there for every fool that deposits money with them.

Whether bv and goldmoney physically hold as much gold as they are supposed to is another matter but it is generally believed that etf's are way oversold.

If you dont hold it you dont own it.

Please stop being silly.

When you buy gold with goldmoney you are guaranteed that your gold exists. If you want it they will send it to you in either 100g or 1000g chunks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Tony fat finger or something big!!!

have some of us missed the boat?

Investors Spooked As Glitch Sends Gold To $3400

Investors were briefly panicked yesterday when the Yahoo Finance website indicated that gold had soared to over $3400 dollars an ounce, an instant jump of 175 per cent. Possible reasons for the shocking spike ranged from a simple mistake to a secret signal being communicated to insiders as to where the commodity was really heading.

Just after 11am eastern time, the Yahoo Finance website gold graph indicated that the precious metal had jumped from $1235.60 an ounce to a whopping $3401.50 an ounce in the space of minutes. The commodity then quickly returned to its previous level almost immediately.

The only event that could precede such a massive and instantaneous jump in gold would have to be something on the scale of a nuclear war or a sudden and total collapse of the U.S. dollar.

Since the apparent glitch was only registered on the Yahoo website, many have attributed it to an in-house error. But that didn’t stop financial forums raging with speculation as to whether the snafu wasn’t some kind of hidden message being put out to insiders as to when gold will really hit such a level.

“This is one of those secret messages to traders in the know that tell the brokers when gold will be at a certain level,” claimed a Kitco forum member.

Indeed, numerous investment analysts speculated last year that gold was heading towards the $3500 range as a result of a deflationary collapse of the U.S. economy.

“Did it really do that, and I wonder if someone knew and cashed in bigtime only to re-invest it after it dropped back down. If they did, they made some major moola!,” commented a poster at DailyPaul.com.

Was this a ‘tell’ to let insiders know that gold is about to soar? Or was it nothing more meaningful than a technical glitch?

http://www.infowars.com/investors-spooked-as-glitch-sends-gold-to-3400/

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please stop being silly.

When you buy gold with goldmoney you are guaranteed that your gold exists. If you want it they will send it to you in either 100g or 1000g chunks.

Even if it does exist - In the event that your gold is worth a very large amount of paper, as in, the shit has well and truly hit the fan - you will want to place your hand on the gold.

Do you really think these companies will send you your gold?

What if the government decides to tax it?

What if the government tries to confiscate it and provide you with monetary compensation like in the 1930s?

In the 1930s when the banks failed, their safe deposit boxes with people's gold in were handed over to the treasury.

What if it gets so bad that sending an armoured truck carrying your gold from vault to your front door is too risky?

Gold is a hedge against the worst that can happen. It's one of gold's strengths. Why would you sacrifice that strength by giving it to someone else to look after?

The only safe place for gold is where you can lay your hands on it.

A year or two I would have been fine with vaults. But nowadays we're getting way too close to end-game to risk something like that.

Edited by fadeaway
Link to post
Share on other sites

There are some very smart people saying gold will crash in price, but I've not read any good reasoning or explanation behind this. Would be very keen to read that.

The silence says it all - ie there is no reasoning so don't worry about it

DYOR and carry on..

Look for value, don't put all your eggs in one basket, don't listen to the uninformed, inexperienced or paranoid.

Well maybe the paranoid if they can back up what they say.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Tony fat finger or something big!!!

have some of us missed the boat?

Investors were briefly panicked yesterday when the Yahoo Finance website indicated that gold had soared to over $3400 dollars an ounce,

Panicked were they? - Instant poll was it?

Also implies that investors don't hold gold.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Panicked were they? - Instant poll was it?

Also implies that investors don't hold gold.

nightmare senario for some of us with large cash holdings & tin food :)

one of those mornings when you check news

gold has gone up to $3500/oz or even $5000/oz!

ops...

some experts are predicting $10k or even $20k!

the panic will start....

Link to post
Share on other sites

nightmare scenario for some of us with large cash holdings & tin food :)

one of those mornings when you check news

gold has gone up to $3500/oz or even $5000/oz!

ops...

some experts are predicting $10k or even $20k!

the panic will start....

So you are a potential investor.

There has never been a better time to buy :rolleyes: ............ except two years ago when I did............or four years ago when Cgnao did.

Yes it did hurt having to pay twice as much as he did, but I'm pleased I did.

Then I added to it at the slightly the wrong time, & that hurt even more; for a month.

Of course the 'un-bubble' in gold could well collapse at any moment; then I look back at all that QE

& forward to QE2

& I read brain-washing stuff on sites like GATA & FOFOA, & zerohedge, & financialsense & only 'talk' about my crazy crap strategy that I got from some holocaustic mystery man on an internet forum to others on internet forums; never to anyone else as for some reason they don't listen :blink:

NB:- I also make my own coffee liquor from a recipe given to me by a Dutchman in Morocco

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please stop being silly.

When you buy gold with goldmoney you are guaranteed that your gold exists. If you want it they will send it to you in either 100g or 1000g chunks.

That never used to be the case. The arrangement to supply smaller ammounts through bairds is new.

Still a minimum of 30 1000ozt bars for silver delivery though.

Had you continued reading the thread before posting then you would have found further explanation.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not true, you can take delivery of one single 1000 oz bar of silver from goldmoney (or 100g of gold). I have that in writing.

if so then that is a relatively new arrangement, their site still says this though.....

"Can I take delivery of 1,000oz silver bars as well?

Yes, provided you have at least 30,000 ounces of silver, which is roughly one pallet of 30 1,000oz bars.

As with gold bars, VIA MAT can ship your silver bar anywhere in the world, at your expense. They will also complete any customs forms that may be required, but you are responsible for payment of custom duties and other costs such as VAT, if applicable."

Link to post
Share on other sites

This came out of the recent CFTC hearing over metal positions. There was a lot of mudslinging after the hearing and a lot of the articles surrounding the general argument were filled with personal vendetta, so I won't post these. When I find a balanced article, I'll post it. In the mean time listen to this interview, I believe it essentially makes the same point.

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2010/8/25_Ben_Davies.html

Can someone on here who agrees with this please cite some independent sources to verify this and register any interest you may have in gold movement in either direction.

Naturally we will all be agog if the assertion has a basis.

If its just speculation then please start a separate thread from the ones containing technical analysis of gold movements by people who declare their interests.

Threads that have a mixture of detailed, sober discussion about the role of Gold in a balanced portfolio, interleaved with deluded rants about gold nuggets being the only real money which the impending police state will seize at gunpoint are very, very irritating, aren't they?

Or is it just me?

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is Jeffrey Christian from the CPM Group speaking at the CFTC position limit hearing in March this year. If you shoot forward to 5 hours 32 minutes, you will hear him say far more gold is traded than physical bullion exists for delivery, due to derivative contracts. The trading ratio of paper to physical gold is 100:1.

http://www.capitolconnection.net/capcon/cftc/032510/cftc-archive-wmv.htm

One of the things that the people who criticize the bullion banks and talk about this undue, uh, large positions, don’t understand, is the nature of the large positions in the physical market. And we don’t help it. The CFTC, when it did its most recent report on Silver, uh, used the term which we use in the market: “The Physical Market”. And we use that term, as did the CFTC in that report, to talk about the OTC market: Forwards, OTC options, physical metal and everything else. And people will say – and you’ve heard it today: “There’s not that much physical metal out there.” There isn’t! But in “The physical market” as the market uses that term, there’s much more metal than that. There’s a hundred times what there is.

Can someone on here who agrees with this please cite some independent sources to verify this and register any interest you may have in gold movement in either direction.

Naturally we will all be agog if the assertion has a basis.

If its just speculation then please start a separate thread from the ones containing technical analysis of gold movements by people who declare their interests.

Threads that have a mixture of detailed, sober discussion about the role of Gold in a balanced portfolio, interleaved with deluded rants about gold nuggets being the only real money which the impending police state will seize at gunpoint are very, very irritating, aren't they?

Or is it just me?

Edited by warpig
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Can someone on here who agrees with this please cite some independent sources to verify this and register any interest you may have in gold movement in either direction.

Naturally we will all be agog if the assertion has a basis.

If its just speculation then please start a separate thread from the ones containing technical analysis of gold movements by people who declare their interests.

Threads that have a mixture of detailed, sober discussion about the role of Gold in a balanced portfolio, interleaved with deluded rants about gold nuggets being the only real money which the impending police state will seize at gunpoint are very, very irritating, aren't they?

Or is it just me?

warpigs assertions are 100% correct, even jeffrey christian of the cme admitted such during the cftc position limits hearings. I doubt very much though that those that have done the necessary research and are already well invested in PMs, knowing whats coming are prepared to spoon feed those that havn't. my advice is start with GATA, and then with anything by adrian douglas, gold seek goldsilver, harvey organ, etc. DYODD and then come back when you've studied the market and have learnt something yourself about the real situation in the PM market.

Edited by goldfever
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

I could not agree more. Warren Buffett's advice, often good to follow, is that when everyone is buying in its past time to get out.

When gold crashes it does so in spectacular fashion and its takes decades, literally, to recover.

From the farticle:

George Soros, who made $1 billion breaking the Bank of England’s defense of the pound in 1992, described gold as “the ultimate asset bubble”

George is a pump and dump expert of the first order. Be careful out there a crash comes like as thief in the night!

Interestingly George has done the opposite of his public spirited "advice" (or do I mean "public spirited" advice?).

Soros increased gold positions in third quarter

Talk the market down so that you can buy cheaper. Who'da thunk it?

Sorry RB, looks like your poster boy has let you down.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.