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Excellent Piece On China

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It is massive trade restrictions or get the shoe shine kit out......

The idea of all the deisgn work and holding companies in one location whilst all the "action" (production) is in another is a long term dead duck - only bankers and econmists understand so little about reality to even begin to believe so.

http://cynicuseconomicus.blogspot.com/

........

The stories that I am referring to are the many examples in which China has sought to tilt the economic playing field in their favour, regardless of the interests of others. In a recent post, I made the same point (yet again) and noted one commentator on the Seeking Alpha copy of the post grumbled at how all countries indulge in such behaviour (suggesting I was an idiot for thinking otherwise, if I recall correctly). Whilst I accept that all countries try to find a favourable outcome, it is up to other players in the world economy to put a constraint on activity that is tilting the playing field too far. This is the problem; there is a very strange passivity in the face of Chinese mercantalism, with no country willing to face the country down.

As time progressed after the post quoted above, I have pointed out many examples of the way in which China is successfully gaming the trading system, and have continually argued for governments to take action to confront China. I pointed out the way in which China encouraged the movement of production and technology into China, by restricting access without such movement, the unfair implementation of laws, the weighted dice of who wins contracts, and a host of other small and large measures which discriminate against Western business. In the light of these many complaints I have made, it is interesting to see a series of articles in the Telegraph that are devoted to China's economy.

....

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The problem is that we have a whole generation of economic 'experts' whose reputations are on the line here- if it turns out that globalisation and 'free' trade were not the path to nirvana, as they claim, then they are going to look very silly indeed.

Add to that the fact that many of these people are funded by the corporates who benefit from the 'free trade' paradigm and you can see why China has been unchallenged in this area- it was simply ideologically and financially inconvenient to admit that they were not playing the game.

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Good find. He covers almost everything I had been thinking/saying/shouting too.

Only thing he missed was the close ties between the Chinese businesses and the Chinese intelligence services, using every means at their disposal to steal the remaining IPR that hasn't been presented to them on a plate via the idiotic outsourcers.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=149980&st=0&p=2687522&fromsearch=1entry2687522

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It is massive trade restrictions or get the shoe shine kit out......

The idea of all the deisgn work and holding companies in one location whilst all the "action" (production) is in another is a long term dead duck - only bankers and econmists understand so little about reality to even begin to believe so.

http://cynicuseconomicus.blogspot.com/

........

The stories that I am referring to are the many examples in which China has sought to tilt the economic playing field in their favour, regardless of the interests of others. In a recent post, I made the same point (yet again) and noted one commentator on the Seeking Alpha copy of the post grumbled at how all countries indulge in such behaviour (suggesting I was an idiot for thinking otherwise, if I recall correctly). Whilst I accept that all countries try to find a favourable outcome, it is up to other players in the world economy to put a constraint on activity that is tilting the playing field too far. This is the problem; there is a very strange passivity in the face of Chinese mercantalism, with no country willing to face the country down.

As time progressed after the post quoted above, I have pointed out many examples of the way in which China is successfully gaming the trading system, and have continually argued for governments to take action to confront China. I pointed out the way in which China encouraged the movement of production and technology into China, by restricting access without such movement, the unfair implementation of laws, the weighted dice of who wins contracts, and a host of other small and large measures which discriminate against Western business. In the light of these many complaints I have made, it is interesting to see a series of articles in the Telegraph that are devoted to China's economy.

....

Everything the guy says is correct but he actually misses the most obvious point...that the Chinese economy is much a creation of the globalised, free market system created by the west as anything else: its not the fault of the Chinese that western plutocrats have been indulging in the selfish, parasitic and ultimately doomed to failure policy of exporting jobs and capital to the cheapest centers of production in a never ending quest to increase their own profits: China is the West's very own Frankenstein.

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If people actually bought locally made (or at the least non-slave labour produced) instead of cheap chinese crap then we woudln't be in the situation we are now.

It's the citizens that are at fault most here , they've undermined themselves.

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If people actually bought locally made (or at the least non-slave labour produced) instead of cheap chinese crap then we woudln't be in the situation we are now.

It's the citizens that are at fault most here , they've undermined themselves.

Agreed completely.

It is a problem I remember writing a long time ago for an magazine, that the British American way of doing things is always bottom line is most important.

It is interesting to note even in Europe there are differences.

Germans drive german cars, french drive french cars.

FAr away it is the same too. Japanese won't buy anything not made in Japan, KOreans won't buy anything not made in Korea....

Though this is starting to fade a bit as Japanese never used to buy rice from Thailand or China or the USA but the price difference was so vast they eventually cracked and bought it to save more money domestically.

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Everything the guy says is correct but he actually misses the most obvious point...that the Chinese economy is much a creation of the globalised, free market system created by the west as anything else: its not the fault of the Chinese that western plutocrats have been indulging in the selfish, parasitic and ultimately doomed to failure policy of exporting jobs and capital to the cheapest centers of production in a never ending quest to increase their own profits: China is the West's very own Frankenstein.

government too. Recall the NHS outsource to India...

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Just one small thing.

The biggest "business" in CHina was, and appears to be, Western owned or patroned.

Without US as customers or developers, they wouldnt be where they are.

Ie, with a huge housing bubble and still 75% of their people subsistence living....sounds familiar.

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If people actually bought locally made (or at the least non-slave labour produced) instead of cheap chinese crap then we woudln't be in the situation we are now.

It's the citizens that are at fault most here , they've undermined themselves.

Thats putting the cart before the horse somewhat..its not ordinary citizens that have spent the last 30 years exporting their own jobs.

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Thats putting the cart before the horse somewhat..its not ordinary citizens that have spent the last 30 years exporting their own jobs.

It is though, without demand there is no supply...

Which is why Sony doesn't ship things to Korea and Korea doesn't ship things to Japan, because people do not demand it there is no supply and no incentive for there to be a supply.

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government too. Recall the NHS outsource to India...

Yep..thats the next stage...the outsourcing not of productive capacity but stuff like legal and financial services...it will be

interesting to see what the middle classes reaction will be when they see that its not just the working class which is being

empoverished by globalisation.

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It is though, without demand there is no supply...

Which is why Sony doesn't ship things to Korea and Korea doesn't ship things to Japan, because people do not demand it there is no supply and no incentive for there to be a supply.

There is only demand because we used to make things in this country but exported the jobs...if Korea exported all its semi conductor

producing capacity to Japan then Korea would not have any choice to but to buy semi conductors from Japan, in that case indivdual

choice does not come into the equation as there is no choice, so blaming individual citizens is a bit pointless.

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Yep..thats the next stage...the outsourcing not of productive capacity but stuff like legal and financial services...it will be

interesting to see what the middle classes reaction will be when they see that its not just the working class which is being

empoverished by globalisation.

This is what annoys me a bit, my dad keeps going on and on about how good accountancy is and how all his friends children are rich accountants, but when I talk to them most of them are scared of outsourcing in a big way.

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This is what annoys me a bit, my dad keeps going on and on about how good accountancy is and how all his friends children are rich accountants, but when I talk to them most of them are scared of outsourcing in a big way.

As indeed they should be...the only positive point to make is that globalisation is in its end game in that its fundamentally

unstable has broken the present capitalist system beyond repair, so some kind of major rebalancing of the worlds economic

system is due in the next 5-10 years...hopefully for the better.

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Good find. He covers almost everything I had been thinking/saying/shouting too.

Only thing he missed was the close ties between the Chinese businesses and the Chinese intelligence services, using every means at their disposal to steal the remaining IPR that hasn't been presented to them on a plate via the idiotic outsourcers.

http://www.housepric...1entry2687522

Agreed. The Communist regime is simply using the methodology of Lenin's 'New Economic Policy', as a means of securing internal and regional hegemony.

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so some kind of major rebalancing of the worlds economic system is due in the next 5-10 years...hopefully for the better.

I dunnot about that as this may mean war a big one.. :o

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Thats putting the cart before the horse somewhat..its not ordinary citizens that have spent the last 30 years exporting their own jobs.

Each time we bought goods from the developing countries, we were lining up a job loss. Jobs which were done here, couldn't compete with the cheaper alternatives. Arguably, outsourcing was a way to keep the UK businesses going, rather than going to the wall completely.

The elephant in the room is the relative wealth of the developed and developing nations; the imbalance has been trying to right itself ever since frequent global trade became possible. Remove all the corporates, cronies etc and this imbalance will still exist.

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Yep..thats the next stage...the outsourcing not of productive capacity but stuff like legal and financial services...it will be

interesting to see what the middle classes reaction will be when they see that its not just the working class which is being

empoverished by globalisation.

The basic distinction is that when the lower orders lose their jobs to outsourcing it's 'market forces', and they should just work for less money and stop whining.

If the same thing happens to a middle class professional it's a tragedy about which 'something' must be done'.

It's hard to see how areas like legal and financial will avoid it though- the cost savings must be potentially huge in some cases.

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The basic distinction is that when the lower orders lose their jobs to outsourcing it's 'market forces', and they should just work for less money and stop whining.

If the same thing happens to a middle class professional it's a tragedy about which 'something' must be done'.

It's hard to see how areas like legal and financial will avoid it though- the cost savings must be potentially huge in some cases.

The list is endless, lawyers, accountants, insurance work, design, architects and the real scary stuff... medical diagnoses - a doctor in India can read an x-ray, photo, scan etc just as good as a guy in the UK (with his/her SL500 & golf clubs in the boot).

Dare I say it, estate agents and mortgage brokers...

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The basic distinction is that when the lower orders lose their jobs to outsourcing it's 'market forces', and they should just work for less money and stop whining.

If the same thing happens to a middle class professional it's a tragedy about which 'something' must be done'.

It's hard to see how areas like legal and financial will avoid it though- the cost savings must be potentially huge in some cases.

I would worry more about bringing down the cost of living here and less about the falling wages. The former, we can reasonably do something about, but the latter will be a constant struggle due to global competition.

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The problem is that we have a whole generation of economic 'experts' whose reputations are on the line here- if it turns out that globalisation and 'free' trade were not the path to nirvana, as they claim, then they are going to look very silly indeed.

Add to that the fact that many of these people are funded by the corporates who benefit from the 'free trade' paradigm and you can see why China has been unchallenged in this area- it was simply ideologically and financially inconvenient to admit that they were not playing the game.

No the experts will merely claim X or Y went wrong which couldn't have possible have been predicted. They will then talk about the next "fad" in an expert and confident manner and the people will feel soothed that we have such people of wisdom helping to shape our lives for the better.

There will be nothing wrong with the theory it will be that the someone didn't follow the instructions correctly, if only they had read the textbook.

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What are you all smoking.... I want some.

So, lets have a trade war with China. That way we won't be able to buy all their low cost goods.... instead we will all twiddle our thumbs while the west builds more expensive production capacity, and then buy our own stuff at five times the price. That's what we all need eh, some good ole' hyperinflation. And of course, the Chinese will happily carry on buying our services while we deny them our markets. After all we don't really need to sell them Airbus or BASF goods or BMWs or Jags.

The worrying part is your all so dim you are lapping up the xenophobia.

Edited by bpw

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What are you all smoking.... I want some.

China will sort its-self out without our help. When you have a country of factory owners and slaves only two things can happens, either the wages rise and china isn't the cheap solution it once was, or the factory owners swing from the lamp posts.

Still Obama will be needing that second term, so maybe the quasi fixed yuan rates will become a useful stick.

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What are you all smoking.... I want some.

So, lets have a trade war with China. That way we won't be able to buy all their low cost goods.... instead we will all twiddle our thumbs while the west builds more expensive production capacity, and then buy our own stuff at five times the price. That's what we all need eh, some good ole' hyperinflation. And of course, the Chinese will happily carry on buying our services while we deny them our markets. After all we don't really need to sell them Airbus or BASF goods or BMWs or Jags.

The worrying part is your all so dim you are lapping up the xenophobia.

Sorry, its you thats dim...you obviously do not understand the nature of globalistaion and the mutually parasitic relationship that exists between China and the West and how it is simply unsustainable...its not about xenophobia, its about a system of capitalism that is

destroying society.

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I think its a bit like selling some dodgy sub prime mortgages or CDO's. Sell one or two and think "what the heck" and count the bonus/commission money.

So outsource a couple of factories to Chindia. What harm can that do? The problem is one or two become hundreds, thousands and before you know it, you have massive structural unemployment and no one can afford even the goods made by the slave factories. We got round this in the past decade by advancing the money in the form of HPI, credit rather than increased earnings.

This is an area where I think we need more state/strategic planning. However money talks and the regulators just end up getting "captured." Guess what? The Lobbyists are back in force in Westminster. So much for a "clean slate."

Also do "we" actually get the benefit from outsourcing in the form of cheaper goods? There have been posts on here about the corps building up huge cash reserves, whist the banks and personal sector are basically skint.

I'm not talking about Primark or TKMaxx crap but so called "quality" branded good. I see a pair of designer jeans costing nearly £100 or trainers in "Footlocker" costing the same, which have been made in a sweat shop for pence. It wouldn't make a fat lot of difference in the end price, if these were made in Bradford or Bangalor. The "brands" and the corporates are pulling a fast one.

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  • 149 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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