Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

HappyNudist

The Ta (Territorial Army)

Recommended Posts

I have this evening been pressured into donating to help the heroes. Fair enough, but the lever given was so and so local who went out to so and so with the TA and now finds life a little hard coming back and deserves my sympathy and help.

Now I may be a little hard nosed but if you sign up and volunteer to go off to a war then maybe it's your own lookout?

Discussion welcome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is it is a volunteer force and a lot of people don't realise what they are getting themselves into when they sign on the dotted line. Fighting the war on the beeb was interesting about 7 years ago when they had the HMS invincible crew stating they never thought they would ever fight.

Which is essentially what I remember the RN advertising for years about seeing the world for free on the governments £.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have this evening been pressured into donating to help the heroes. Fair enough, but the lever given was so and so local who went out to so and so with the TA and now finds life a little hard coming back and deserves my sympathy and help.

Now I may be a little hard nosed but if you sign up and volunteer to go off to a war then maybe it's your own lookout?

Discussion welcome.

I agree. Though I have a little sympathy for people who signed up for the TA who thought they'd never go to war. Everyone knows you can theoretically be called up but it wasn't until recently that this started to happen again i.e. Iraq and Afghanistan.

Used to be called "Weekend Warriors" for a reason. I expect that the regular army accords them a bit more respect these days seeing as they service side by side on the front lines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is it is a volunteer force and a lot of people don't realise what they are getting themselves into when they sign on the dotted line. Fighting the war on the beeb was interesting about 7 years ago when they had the HMS invincible crew stating they never thought they would ever fight.

Which is essentially what I remember the RN advertising for years about seeing the world for free on the governments £.

Five or ten years ago, I was involved in an activity that brought me into contact with a number of Territorial SAS officers. Make no mistake, these guys are 100% professional and know exactly what they are getting themselves into.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Five or ten years ago, I was involved in an activity that brought me into contact with a number of Territorial SAS officers. Make no mistake, these guys are 100% professional and know exactly what they are getting themselves into.

Yeh but no but yeh but no but yeh

TA SAS train to the the same extent as regulars. Fair do's - they are also likely to have a higher IQ than other TA. My query is/was - why the heck should I be emotionally blackmailed into giving money for some fat, useless article who ended up (voluntarily) going off to war and finding it a whole different ballgame than playing soldiers at the weekend and going back to mummy for tea on a Sunday night?

And if that is thye best the TA have to offer then why the hell do we need them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeh but no but yeh but no but yeh

TA SAS train to the the same extent as regulars. Fair do's - they are also likely to have a higher IQ than other TA. My query is/was - why the heck should I be emotionally blackmailed into giving money for some fat, useless article who ended up (voluntarily) going off to war and finding it a whole different ballgame than playing soldiers at the weekend and going back to mummy for tea on a Sunday night?

And if that is thye best the TA have to offer then why the hell do we need them?

Interesting how you some to the conclusion that SAS TA soldiers have a higher IQ than other TA soldiers.

With all due respect I find this view ignorant and ill informed as you clearly have no knowledge of SAS TA or otherwise recruitment policy.

As too feeling pressurized into donating to H4H your comments show scant regard for what this charity tires to achieve. It is not there to assist any Tom Dick or Harry returning from the Afghan there usually has to be a mitigating factor. The absence of an arm or leg(s) would be such a mitigating factor.

If you did indeed feel pressurised then maybe you should have not donated at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TA and RAF REG policy is the same as I know it. If you are relatively fit (at the point of joining) and prepared to put in the required amount of time then you are in.

I personally couldn't give a monkey's toss about H4H - you are correct. Had you read my original post you might have some understanding of what I was talking about. Namely, being made to feel sorry because an accounant from Surrey went to Iraq and now finds life a little tricky back home (example)

And I didn't donate. I was just questioning why the hell do reserve forces (such as the TA) exist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TA and RAF REG policy is the same as I know it. If you are relatively fit (at the point of joining) and prepared to put in the required amount of time then you are in.

I personally couldn't give a monkey's toss about H4H - you are correct. Had you read my original post you might have some understanding of what I was talking about. Namely, being made to feel sorry because an accounant from Surrey went to Iraq and now finds life a little tricky back home (example)

And I didn't donate. I was just questioning why the hell do reserve forces (such as the TA) exist.

Well if you had put in any research at all instead of trying to guess you may have discovered that the SAS does not recruit from the street, it recruits from other established areas of the army most notably from so called elite units such as the Airborne. Troops therefore already arrive having completed a basic training and will have weapon handling skills.

They are then subject to a very rigorous selection criteria which most will fail, these are then returned to the units from where they came from.

It follows then that SAS soldiers will have to have served in another unit prior to arriving and passing selection.

Am at a loss to understand why an Accountant from Surrey would be 'pressurising' you into donating? Was he a chugger? To be honest H4H is a victim of its own success and other service charities are 'missing out' due to the amounts of money they are getting which go to assist a small but nevertheless important part of the service world given the eligibility criteria to call on support.

That no doubt comes from the public's perception on seeing innumerable hearses rolling through Wootton Bassett. Sad but effective.....

As for the TA last time I looked (and it was at least 5 years ago) they provided around 35% of the Army's strength for about 5% of the cost. No doubt the changes made to the Reserve Forces act and the missions as was in Iraq and currently in Afghan will have changed that. Today all TA soldiers would expect to do at least one six Month tour in an operational theatre every 5 years. many exceed that and will perform 2 or 3 missions over that time.

You can see the attraction that the TA has to the politico's....

The SDR is due in the Autumn. It will change the make up of the UK defence forces in a generation. Big changes are afoot for the RAF will it survive possibly but in a much scaled down version with a merger with the Fleet Air Arm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for the TA last time I looked (and it was at least 5 years ago) they provided around 35% of the Army's strength for about 5% of the cost.

Utter poop. 35% of the army's strength for 5% of cost? Both your figures need looking at and will not bear scrutiny. Besides which you are once again failing to grasp the mettle of my argument which is...

If (according to your figures) 35% of our Army is made up of accountants from Surrey (it was just an example of type) that are reluctant to be sent to war, and once having been find life back in civvy street a big stress then what is the point having them? I'm all for supporting our forces but find it hard to muster sympathy for some twonk who can't realise that a tour of duty in Afghanistan is going to be a tad more arduous than a long weekend sleeping in a tent and thrashing around on an MOD training ground in the UK before going back home to mummy.

Which brings me to the conclusion that were I faced with an enemy where 35% of the opposition weren't up to fight I'd think my chances quite good and possibly press my military advantage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting how you some to the conclusion that SAS TA soldiers have a higher IQ than other TA soldiers.

With all due respect I find this view ignorant and ill informed as you clearly have no knowledge of SAS TA or otherwise recruitment policy.

As too feeling pressurized into donating to H4H your comments show scant regard for what this charity tires to achieve. It is not there to assist any Tom Dick or Harry returning from the Afghan there usually has to be a mitigating factor. The absence of an arm or leg(s) would be such a mitigating factor.

If you did indeed feel pressurised then maybe you should have not donated at all.

H4H is a joke.

The armed forces abandon their soldiers who get injured and the public are supposed to shell out donations instead?

Mind you, so long as mugs do, I suppose it means that I don't have to pay taxes to pay for the consequences of war - an action I generally do not approve of. Especially wars in foreign lands. If it was war here then that would be different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The TA is clearly necessary and the government, especially now it's not led by hollow-man Brown, should be doing more to help the returning soldiers cope as TA soldiers do not have the all-embracing security of being part of a full-time regiment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.army.mod.uk/specialforces/Special%20Air%20Service%20%28Reserve%29.aspx

SAS( R ) as they are known or TA SAS to the layman are recruited from the street, I know of 1 individual who is SAS( R) works in the city has a high IQ and also helped out in the past with the local Army Cadets as well.

When refering to the normal full time SAS you are correct to say they are recruited from other sections of the armed forces, my uncle retired ex SAS came from the signals for example, although alot come from the paras, the RM on the other hand prefer to direct their own into the SBS or Cadre and I hold the SBS up with higher esteem simply becuase they avoid the limelight!

The reality between a nice shiny policy (and is applied in much the same way as most equal opportunity policies in the private sector) stated on a web site and what occurs in the real world is very different.

Most of the strength of the 2 Regiments we are discussing are recruited from existing parts of the army, I don't deny there are exceptions but these persons would not only need to be very bright they would also require absolute fitness levels and the right attitude to pass selection.

It is also important to distinguish between those persons that actually pass selection and serve within the Sabre Squadrons and those that do not and serve in support roles.

The SAS also avoid the limelight, it is only the media that puts them there. In addition it is extremely unlikely that any member of the service would volunteer membership information (this comes from the attitude required to achieve the status) and it is usually only close family and friends that actually know who serves. So next time a bloke sidles up to you in a pub and starts waffling you will know it is exactly that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Simple choice. TA exists, or National Service exists. Which is it to be?

The TA are very much volunteers and do the job through choice. There are a few exceptions as have been pointed out in this thread that didn't expect to be sent to the sandpit.

Counter that with National Service where by and large the people within it do not want to be there, they will not have the correct attitude and that would affect the professionalism of the service.

National Service did have its place in History but is not suited to the training standard demanded of today's military.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The TA is clearly necessary and the government, especially now it's not led by hollow-man Brown, should be doing more to help the returning soldiers cope as TA soldiers do not have the all-embracing security of being part of a full-time regiment.

Good point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TA soldiers are not privy to service pension provision or social housing either, this goes some way to explain the cost savings over the regular army. They are only paid whilst on duty and in place of a pension are paid an annual retainer (Bounty) which is subject to the passing of a series of rigorous tests to ensure the soldier is fit for role.

Add in the fact that equipment tables are met from central defence procurement (separate budget) with wartime stocks being rotated for training use (Ammunition/Rats etc only has a certain shelf life) and you can see where the significant savings come over the regular forces.

End of the day the force does give exceptional value for money. Some Countries embrace the reservist culture wholly and base their whole defence force upon the notion Switzerland as far as I can recall one such example. Clearly the last Governments insistence on committing our forces to foreign wars would not allow such a policy here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If UK wasn't so f*ked socially then Switzerland is the best way. Don't get involved in other people's wars. If someone wants to invade your land, fact that every man has a gun and is trained how to use it (unlike Sadaam's last minute issuing of guns in Iraq) should be enough to protect this country.

Only war I would ever fight in is to protect my loved ones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Swiss good? Since when was conscription ever good? Slave armies by any other name.

National service I've heard from various people was just a big a waste of time, painting and polishing coal and being bullied...

Though it would be amusing when you first get off the bus where the sergent screams at you as if he is hard and to challenge him to some hand to hand..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If UK wasn't so f*ked socially then Switzerland is the best way. Don't get involved in other people's wars. If someone wants to invade your land, fact that every man has a gun and is trained how to use it (unlike Sadaam's last minute issuing of guns in Iraq) should be enough to protect this country.

Only war I would ever fight in is to protect my loved ones.

The whole concept of the Territorial force was the defence of the UK. Whilst territorial units served (with distinction) in WW1 and 2 up until 1996 it was only ever possible to mobilize them as a whole and under the Sovereigns prerogative (although if the Government had requested it this would never have been a stumbling block).

The key here was legislation only allowed the whole force to be called out. Clearly intended for National Emergency such as an imminent threat to the UK . Units as they were in WW1 and 2 would have been deployed as that whole units.

Along came Gulf War One (The invasion of Kuwait by Saddam) and the Government of the day realised they had to use them all or none. Clearly it was an unpalatable political decision to call out the reserves (which are primarily for the defence of the homeland) to fight a war in foreign lands. They were able to deploy (TA) medical staff but had to use a workround in the legislation.

Subsequently the Reserve Forces Act was brought in in 1996 under the Tory Government of the day and as a direct result of the restrictions they found when they tried to deploy PARTS of the TA in GW1.

This ACT allowed for a selective call out out of the TA and paved the way for the deployments we see today.

In the past whole units were called out/up and probably the most famous of these were the PALS Battalions of WW1. Where whole factories workforces make up a unit. The General Manager would have been the Colonel commanding with his managerial staff holding the officers appointments and the shop floor managers the NCO ranks.

Today soldiers are called out selectively according to what skills they have (courses attended) and posted to regular units to make the numbers up.

Good thing or bad thing who knows but the Government of the day at a stroke changed the whole concept of what Territorial's had been about for Centuries previously destroying the traditional use. They will tell us the ending of the Cold War decreased the direct threat to the UK and allowed them a little more latitude to deploy forces but end of the day it is still these unpalatable wars they get sent to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Someone I know in the TA went out to Iraq, he always knew there was that possibility and was happy to go. He is definitely intelligent. He went out as a basic private, the army has to match his salary, which, as a contractor in the City, is around 100k per year, this meant, while out there, he was earning more than anyone else in his unit, including the officers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If UK wasn't so f*ked socially then Switzerland is the best way. Don't get involved in other people's wars. If someone wants to invade your land, fact that every man has a gun and is trained how to use it (unlike Sadaam's last minute issuing of guns in Iraq) should be enough to protect this country.

Only war I would ever fight in is to protect my loved ones.

The Swiss have made it that they are too much trouble to invade. Every bridge and tunnel has to be armed for demolition so that in the event of the threat of invasion they just blow everything and then it all has to be rebuilt which takes months. It's far easier just to go round and treat it as a convenient place to do shady business, as the Germans did.

IMO the fact that everybody has a gun is there really for morale and solidarity, so that if the bridges need blowing then nobody will object. As an effective military force they are minnows.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many years ago in my and CTTR time when I stated work. I met someone who told me that in nine thirty nine, one particular forman was in the TA and was a sergent. He recruited many people from the shop floor who would join for the part time money the genorous bounty and the free two weeks holiday at camp. In September that year war broke out with Germany and all these new recruits were called up for regular service, most died at Dunkirk. The forman who did the recruiting didn't have to be called up because he had a job of National importance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 141 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.