More Than £1Billion Lost To Disability Benefit Fraud And Error

[DisQ]

the usual how much is wasted blah blah

But would they mention real issue ie BANKSTERS who're given @ £ 1 trillion handout (as mentioned in some comments)

main problem facing the country is not these petty fraud & errors (system do need fixing) but banking cartel who run our system.

More than £1billion has been lost in the past six years due to fraud and error in payments of a disability benefit, according to official estimates.

Some of the cash is disappearing because officials do not check whether thousands of people are as disabled as they claim.

The rest is lost to the public purse because of mistakes that mean claimants get more money than they should.

The problem is getting worse: the amount that has gone through fraud has risen by 50 per cent over the same period.

The figures are the tip of the iceberg because they only relate to disability living allowance.

They do not cover other similar handouts such as incapacity benefit and the attendance allowance that is also paid to the disabled.

Employment Minister Chris Grayling said last night that the figures show the benefits system developed under Labour is ‘out of control’ and that urgent reform is required to cut the huge bill.

Disability living allowance is paid to around 3.1million a year and is supposed to first year for which estimates are available.

Even greater amounts are lost through errors by claimants and officials.

DAILY MAIL COMMENT: The cheats who give welfare a bad name

Mother who pocketed £75,000 in benefits by pretending to be a single parent escapes jail

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1305565/More-1BILLION-lost-disability-benefit-fraud-error.html#ixzz0xWnAOC00

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1305565/More-1BILLION-lost-disability-benefit-fraud-error.html#ixzz0xWn32oJU

[Minos]

One billion over six years! One billion a year is a rounding error, over six years, insignificant.

[fluffy666]

the usual how much is wasted blah blah

But would they mention real issue ie BANKSTERS who're given @ £ 1 trillion handout (as mentioned in some comments)

main problem facing the country is not these petty fraud & errors (system do need fixing) but banking cartel who run our system.

Tax evasion and avoidance are at least an order of magnitude greater then benefit fraud/mistakes. But that would involve rich people coughing up..

[Bloo Loo]

just wondering, but, IF they know this is going on, why is it not stopped and the money reclaimed.

or is it just 8ollox?

[South Lorne]

Tax evasion and avoidance are at least an order of magnitude greater then benefit fraud/mistakes. But that would involve rich people coughing up..

...not necessarily only rich people who are tax evaders (that's chip on the shoulder stuff) ...middle class, working class and often benefit fraudsters are in the scheme....each and every sector whether benefit theft or tax evader should be hounded out because it's my money they are stealing .....

[Minos]

just wondering, but, IF they know this is going on, why is it not stopped and the money reclaimed.

or is it just 8ollox?

It's 8ollox designed to turn the proles on each other in order that the people who own you can continue to do as they please. Call me Dave showing his true colours.

Don't forget when you are out and about to kick away the walking sticks of old folk just to see if they are really disabled. I bet none of them really are.

[jiggles]

Tax avoidance isn't illegal - we all do it through ISAs, pensions, personal allowance for income tax etc.

HMRC is responsible for dealing with tax evasion - a blind eye is not turned. Look online to see all the cases being brought.

[@contradevian]

It's 8ollox designed to turn the proles on each other in order that the people who own you can continue to do as they please. Call me Dave showing his true colours.

Don't forget when you are out and about to kick away the walking sticks of old folk just to see if they are really disabled. I bet none of them really are.

Starting to agree with you. Kick the crutches from under the crony capitalists first, then I'll believe things have changed. However with "Monaco based" and "everything in the wifes name" Sir Philip Green being called in, I doubt it . Oh I forgot, his employee's pay tax and VAT, for which we should all be extremely grateful!

[South Lorne]

Tax avoidance isn't illegal - we all do it through ISAs, pensions, personal allowance for income tax etc.

HMRC is responsible for dealing with tax evasion - a blind eye is not turned. Look online to see all the cases being brought.

...tax management is not illegal ....avoidance and evasion is......

[Scott Sando]

Divide and rule, works everytime.

[DisQ]

Divide and rule, works everytime.

yep

as a reminder

City fat cats 'paying less tax than cleaners'

Some of the City's richest bosses could see their earnings slashed after it emerged they were paying tax at a lower rate than their office cleaners.

The Treasury yesterday said it would look at closing a loophole that allows the multi-millionaire chiefs of private equity firms to pay as little as 10 per cent tax on their earnings.

Officials made the announcement after one of the industry's biggest players made an extraordinary attack on his fellow bosses.

Nicholas Ferguson, chairman of SVG Capital, said it was wrong that private equity bosses pay tax of only 10 per cent, when the basic income tax rate is 22 per cent and the higher rate is 40 per cent.

"Any commonsense person would say that a highly-paid private equity executive paying less tax than a cleaning lady or other low-paid workers can't be right," Mr Ferguson told the Financial Times.

"I have not heard anyone give a clear explanation of why it is justified."

Private equity firms borrow billions to buy underperforming companies, before cutting costs and putting them back on to the stock market several years later for massive returns.

They have been criticised by trade unions for cutting jobs, stripping assets and riding roughshod over workers' interests in the name of a quick profit.

In recent months private equity firms have been stalking some of Britain's best known brands.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459766/City-fat-cats-paying-tax-cleaners.html#ixzz0xXAHIIZ8

[jiggles]

...tax management is not illegal ....avoidance and evasion is......

Avoidance = legal

Evasion = illegal

[jiggles]

That is a bit old fashioned.

I think the current legal position is that any arrangements taken to minimise tax has to be notified to the Inland Revenue so they can decide what to do about it.

Yes it is a bit but it is still correct.

Any fruity or exotic arrangements you do will need to be notified to HMRC in some cases but they are not illegal just because they need to be notified.

[South Lorne]

Avoidance = legal

Evasion = illegal

..strictly speaking ...yes ...you are correct ....I am not a LD ...but this is a good article from their blog site outlining how the coalition will convert some of the avoidance schemes into evasion ....

http://www.libdemvoice.org/tackling-tax-avoidance-20029.html

[jiggles]

..strictly speaking ...yes ...you are correct ....I am not a LD ...but this is a good article from their blog site outlining how the coalition will convert some of the avoidance schemes into evasion ....

http://www.libdemvoice.org/tackling-tax-avoidance-20029.html

Tbh every year there is a crack down on something or other and formerly legal planning becomes evasion. It just more grist for the professional services mill....

[South Lorne]

Tbh every year there is a crack down on something or other and formerly legal planning becomes evasion. It just more grist for the professional services mill....

...at least people claiming the Government is doing nothing about tax evasion have less to complain about .....

[erranta]

Tax evasion and avoidance are at least an order of magnitude greater then benefit fraud/mistakes. But that would involve rich people coughing up..

Multi-Millionaire Cameron and his 'society/to the manor born' wife claimed disability for his son during his lifetime, yet he's now actively engaged in trying to deny this very benefit to the poorest and most needy in our society.

The crass hypocracy of the uber-rich 'targetting' this benefit mainly given to the poor - 'Society Scum'!

[miko]

Multi-Millionaire Cameron and his 'society/to the manor born' wife claimed disability for his son during his lifetime, yet he's now actively engaged in trying to deny this very benefit to the poorest and most needy in our society.

The crass hypocracy of the uber-rich 'targetting' this benefit mainly given to the poor - 'Society Scum'!

Is he, i guy i know has a heart condition, yes he has heart problems however he is more than able to do a bit of cash in hand work, but got awarded his benefit by telling them he could only walk a couple of feet .

If you went to work you would need to earn £35,000 before tax and Ni to acheive the standard of living he has. That's before his bit's and pieces on the side , he has no family to support . Last year after running up credit card debt of about £12000 he declared himself bankrupt and walked away form the debt's.

They cannot touch his mobility car , or rented house or any of the money he recieves each week .

I would not say this man was the poorest and most needy in our society , the new car changed every three years is only used a few times a week he could easily get on a bus. Surley this type of fraud needs to sorted no matter how much or little it saves, when millions of people have to get up out of bed five times a week to earn a lot less than this , and also would loose any assets they have if they ran up thousands on CC debt's. No walking away for them.

[RufflesTheGuineaPig]

Everyone take your seats and stare at the screen for the 5 minute hate.

Are you ready? Then we will begin.

"Roll out the benefits claimants"

[erranta]

Is he, i guy i know has a heart condition, yes he has heart problems however he is more than able to do a bit of cash in hand work, but got awarded his benefit by telling them he could only walk a couple of feet .

If you went to work you would need to earn £35,000 before tax and Ni to acheive the standard of living he has. That's before his bit's and pieces on the side , he has no family to support . Last year after running up credit card debt of about £12000 he declared himself bankrupt and walked away form the debt's.

They cannot touch his mobility car , or rented house or any of the money he recieves each week .

I would not say this man was the poorest and most needy in our society , the new car changed every three years is only used a few times a week he could easily get on a bus. Surley this type of fraud needs to sorted no matter how much or little it saves, when millions of people have to get up out of bed five times a week to earn a lot less than this , and also would loose any assets they have if they ran up thousands on CC debt's. No walking away for them.

The above is a good example of why 'they' get way with the massive frauds ongoing in the City of London against the population of the UK!

They focus your tiny minds on preying on each other thru their media - whilst robbing you blind!

Edited August 24, 2010 by erranta

[South Lorne]

yet he's now actively engaged in trying to deny this very benefit to the poorest and most needy in our society.

The crass hypocracy of the uber-rich 'targetting' this benefit mainly given to the poor - 'Society Scum'!

....link please.....

[South Lorne]

The above is a good example of why 'they' get way with the massive frauds ongoing in the City of London against the population of the UK!

...it's two way.....what about all the house buyers who lied on their application forms......

[erranta]

....link please.....

Piss off - if you can't come up with anything better to say for or against!

[wonderpup]

Something odd about all these stories- if they are based on real data, as opposed to witch hunt fantasies, why have they been allowed to continue? Surely if there are known fraudsters playing the system they would have already have been stopped?

The same goes for the tax 'evasion' figures- if these figures of lost revenue are based on hard data, why have they not been stopped?

In fact I think the propaganda war on benefits will backfire as people lose faith in the safety net itself and retreat into their bunkers instead of going to the shops.

So whoever thinks it's clever to run stories like this is shooting themselves in the foot as they contribute to the fear level that Cameron and Co are already trying to dampen down- having finally worked out that frightened sheeple don't go shopping.

The spectacle of the safety net unravelling beneath you, just as you wobble on the financial high wire is not going to result in increased confidence, because now you know that if you do fall, as you fear, there will be nothing waiting to catch you.

[OnionTerror]

Something odd about all these stories- if they are based on real data, as opposed to witch hunt fantasies, why have they been allowed to continue? Surely if there are known fraudsters playing the system they would have already have been stopped?

The same goes for the tax 'evasion' figures- if these figures of lost revenue are based on hard data, why have they not been stopped?

In fact I think the propaganda war on benefits will backfire as people lose faith in the safety net itself and retreat into their bunkers instead of going to the shops.

So whoever thinks it's clever to run stories like this is shooting themselves in the foot as they contribute to the fear level that Cameron and Co are already trying to dampen down- having finally worked out that frightened sheeple don't go shopping.

The spectacle of the safety net unravelling beneath you, just as you wobble on the financial high wire is not going to result in increased confidence, because now you know that if you do fall, as you fear, there will be nothing waiting to catch you.

A reply in one sound...Hmmmm...

http://www.creditman.biz/uk/members/news-view.asp?newsviewID=12254&id=1&mylocation=News&chksrc=NNow4251

While the Comprehensive Spending Review threatens HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) with cuts and job losses, it actually makes more sense to invest in the department that brings money in, the Association of Revenue and Customs (ARC) said yesterday. ARC is the union representing senior managers and professionals in HMRC, and it today launched a campaign designed to highlight how more Government revenue can be generated.

Graham Black, ARC President, said:

"It is madness to reduce HMRC still further, when it has already suffered 30% cuts in recent years. With more staff, we can bring in more of the tax that is legally due, and deal with the tax cheats who are putting the burden onto everyone else.

"The Government is like a drowning man who decides to throw off his life jacket, because it weighs too much. Who in his right mind would recommend that?

"The amount of money spent on dealing with the tax gap has almost halved since 2006-07 from £3.6bn to £1.9bn, and at the same time the revenues collected by HMRC have fallen by £25bn.

"Every pound spent on dealing with tax cheats will bring in at least 30 times that amount - and that is an investment opportunity any logical person would take.

"And with the additional income, the Government's options increase: they can reduce the deficit more quickly, or protect key services. Now is the time for a truly bold decision, one that is right for the country, and one that makes both economic and moral sense."

ARC is holding a meeting for MPs at Westminster on 8 September 2010 to outline the case in more detail.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/20/tackle-tax-gap-deficit-reduction

We have a financial crisis in the UK. It was not caused by the government; the crisis was caused by a collapse in our national income. That was, in turn, caused by the collapse of the banking sector. That crisis then resulted in the income of the government collapsing. Government spending continued, however, much as planned – except for two things: unemployment has risen and a bit more interest is being paid to government debt.

Neither of these issues created a government spending crisis, because what we have is a government income crisis. The budget for 2008-09 forecast that government income in 2009-10 would be £608bn.The budget for 2009-10 forecast that same income to be £496bn. That difference in anticipated income for that one year – £112bn – is what made up most of the borrowing requirement in 2009-10.

The rest was entirely reasonable borrowing to pay for the £44bn of net new investment by the government in that year. In combination, making good lost government income and paying for investment cost a total of £156bn in 2009-10. Total borrowing was £161.9bn in that year. If income had fulfilled expectations there would, therefore, have been no deficit to cause any concern at all.

Any deficit reduction policy aimed at cutting spending is wholly misdirected. What we need is a deficit cutting policy aimed at increasing government income, and there are three ways to achieve this.

The first is for the government to stimulate a moribund economy by encouraging investment. This is the Keynesian solution that is proven to work. The second is to raise selective new taxes on those best able to pay them. This is possible. The third option is to tackle the tax gap.

The tax gap has three parts. The first is tax avoidance, which I estimate to be about £25bn a year. This arises from the exploitation of loopholes in UK tax law and between UK tax law and that of other states – especially tax havens. The second part is tax evasion – that is breaking the law. I estimate this to be £70bn a year. HM Revenue & Customs claims it is much less, but their methodology for estimating anything but VAT evasion is very weak. Last, there is unpaid and late-paid tax – currently evaluated by HMRC to be at least £26bn.

Put these figures together and they come to more than £120bn. Enough, at least in principle, to close the whole current government deficit. Of course, no one will ever collect all tax theoretically owed – that's just not possible. Serious measures could be taken to tackle the tax gap, and yet there is no evidence that the coalition government is adopting any.

The current government is continuing the policy of cutting staff at HMRC – a policy initiated by New Labour. Almost 26,000 jobs have gone since 2005. Last year 5,000 frontline staff went and more still are to go. This makes no sense: each frontline member of staff brings in on average 30 times in tax what it costs to employ them. The result is that tax that is so badly needed to keep services going is being given away.

Second, strong measures are needed to tackle tax abuse – something the coalition has little to say about. They just claim that:

• We will make every effort to tackle tax avoidance, including detailed development of Liberal Democrat proposals.

• We will review the taxation of non-domiciled individuals.

Interesting that while the Tories had nothing to say at all, the Lib Dem manifesto stated that they would:

• Tackle tax avoidance and evasion, with new powers for HMRC and a law to ensure properties can't avoid stamp duty if they are put into an offshore trust.

• Crack down on tax havens, which allow individuals and corporations to avoid paying taxes to developing countries.

• Propose specific policies to restrict pension tax relief and relief for charitable donations to the basic tax rate – both now seemingly abandoned – and a pledge to increase the capital gains tax rate to the income tax rate, also now abandoned.

Sadly, the weakness of these proposals within the coalition list of priorities has been amply demonstrated. On the several occasions on which my work on the tax gap has been debated in parliament since the election, the Tory ministers who have responded have gone out of their way to make clear that they do not think this an issue of consequence. This is not just chance: a crisis in the nation's income which created a crisis in the government's income is being addressed by cutting spending – which was (by and large) under control. That makes no economic sense at all and does suggest that the spending cuts agenda is purely political.

But there is opportunity in that: for those who are looking to the world after the time that Osbornomics has failed (as it surely will) addressing the tax gap and raising new taxes have to be two parts of the agenda for rebalancing the equation in the government's income. The rest will have to come from something else more important still – and that will be getting people to work again.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Dave Beans