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juvenal

Those At The Top Knew All Along It Would Crash..

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This is Eddie George, ex- governor of the Bank of England talking three and a half years ago...

Everyone at the top knew the credit boom was unsustainable, but their own nests were feathered and they couldn't care less what happened down the line. 'My legacy to the MPC was, if you like,.... sort that out'

If you've never read this, you ought to...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/exgovernor-george-says-bank-deliberately-fuelled-consumer-boom-441160.html

Edited by juvenal

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This is Eddie George, ex- governor of the Bank of England talking three and a half years ago...

Everyone at the top knew the credit boom was unsustainable, but their own nests were feathered and they couldn't care less what happened down the line. 'My legacy to the MPC was, if you like,.... sort that out'

If you've never read this, you ought to...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/exgovernor-george-says-bank-deliberately-fuelled-consumer-boom-441160.html

I'm not sure this is anything new or surprising or something that wasn't know already, it just sounds like

a (false) justification post the fact.

If he'd come out and said the truth, that an unsustainable credit boom leading to a "banking bust" was a useful crisis

to speed up the transfer of wealth from the working and middle classes thats been going on since the 1980's then

that would be more interesting...

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I'm not sure this is anything new or surprising or something that wasn't know already, it just sounds like

a (false) justification post the fact.

If he'd come out and said the truth, that an unsustainable credit boom leading to a "banking bust" was a useful crisis

to speed up the transfer of wealth from the working and middle classes thats been going on since the 1980's then

that would be more interesting...

Yes but what he did say is something almost as good. He said reducing interest rates leads to an unsustainable use of credit, that will eventually collapse.

Totally unambiguous statement. So, based on that, how in the name of **** did they get away with reducing them again in 2007-10 !!

Furthermore what will happen next can hardly be described as unexpected. when it does.

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Yes but what he did say is something almost as good. He said reducing interest rates leads to an unsustainable use of credit, that will eventually collapse.

Totally unambiguous statement. So, based on that, how in the name of **** did they get away with reducing them again in 2007-10 !!

Furthermore what will happen next can hardly be described as unexpected. when it does.

Although the MPC wants to be seen as apolitical, their efforts have resulted in failing to criticise when obvious harsh judgement was due. Why on earth were Blair, Brown and Co not roundly pulled up by about 2003 when it was already obvious loose credit would cause a bust? - in fact I thought about the end game it would cause in 2002 providing it continued unchecked and with IR's lowered for no good reason thereafter.

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Yes but what he did say is something almost as good. He said reducing interest rates leads to an unsustainable use of credit, that will eventually collapse.

Totally unambiguous statement. So, based on that, how in the name of **** did they get away with reducing them again in 2007-10 !!

Furthermore what will happen next can hardly be described as unexpected. when it does.

I chatted to a banking bigwig a few years back when banks were laying on a corporate jolly every other week. I basically button-holed him and said all this lending is unsustainable and unaffordable. The answer I got was that *all* banks know that when rates fall to 5% or below people take on borrowings they can't afford to pay back and if you increase people's credit lines/card limits they spend to it. I got the impression he was alluding to the banks knowing they were lending money and borrowers were going to default - I don't think I read this wrong but it wasn't explicitly stated though, I have to admit.

Thinking about it, it is likely that over a hundred years, or more, banks do have a bit of learned knowledge on interest rate movement cause and effect. I'm loathed to go into outright conspiraloon pre-meditated crash territory etc. though.

Edited by Soon Not a Chain Retailer

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I think Eddie George's comments clearly indicate that a small privileged clique ( obviously including Brown and Blair) at the top of this country knew exactly what the consequences of their credit policies would be. But I don't see them simply as incompetent economic theorists. Cynicism and self-interest was so entrenched they simply said "We know we have set the course for catastrophe, but someone else can sort the mess out. We won't be here. We'll be OK".

And so it proved, as Blair, Fred Goodwin and $100K-a-lecture Gordon can testify.

Edited by juvenal

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Yes but what he did say is something almost as good. He said reducing interest rates leads to an unsustainable use of credit LIAR LOANS, that will eventually collapse. ......//

:angry:

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Absolutely incredible.

The thing is, we could see it was happening; it was going on all around us. The revelation here is the admission that it was orchestrated. Not the result of incompetence. Not ineptitude. Not an unexpected perfect storm.

Orchestrated.

And the sheeple lapped it up and continue to do so.

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I'm not sure this is anything new or surprising or something that wasn't know already, it just sounds like

a (false) justification post the fact.

If he'd come out and said the truth, that an unsustainable credit boom leading to a "banking bust" was a useful crisis

to speed up the transfer of wealth from the working and middle classes thats been going on since the 1980's then

that would be more interesting...

The real bankers, the shareholders, lost virtually everything as well. This crisis was a c0ck up, not a conspiracy.

See the chart below, Lloyds, 10 years. Other banks will be similar.

lloyds10years.png

source: yahoo finance

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Absolutely incredible.

The thing is, we could see it was happening; it was going on all around us. The revelation here is the admission that it was orchestrated. Not the result of incompetence. Not ineptitude. Not an unexpected perfect storm.

Orchestrated.

And the sheeple lapped it up and continue to do so.

That's NOTHING!

Who are the 'hidden Cult' that Orchestrated this to happen in synchronicity around the globe?

The more technology we use - they more they manipulate us! (It's like slaves putting their own ball & chains on!)

Soon, 'they' will be able to 'erase' you with one mouse click - when the last bits of paper records are 'digitised' - which 'they' constantly press for!

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I think Eddie George's comments clearly indicate that a small privileged clique ( obviously including Brown and Blair) at the top of this country knew exactly what the consequences of their credit policies would be. But I don't see them simply as incompetent economic theorists. Cynicism and self-interest was so entrenched they simply said "We know we have set the course for catastrophe, but someone else can sort the mess out. We won't be here. We'll be OK".

And so it proved, as Blair, Fred Goodwin and $100K-a-lecture Gordon can testify.

Eddie George policies were going to be controlled. They started to generate inflation in 2003, and the Bank of England was going to raise rates in 2004. It was Gordon Brown who aborted that, by switching the inflation index, from RPI to CPI, removing housing costs from the index, thus preventing the BoE from increasing rates, and curbing he bubble then. Mervyn resisted to it at the time, and said so publicly many times, including in Parliament in 2009. These are facts. The question is: why did Brown do that?

My guess: Brown did not foresee the size of the disaster he was sowing. Back in 2003 his main goal was to be the next prime minister. His first main concern was with the 2005 election. RPI was overshooting the inflation target, due to rising housing costs, and the the BoE was going to raise IR in 2004. That would slow down the economy, and reduce Labour's chances of wining the 2005 election (already weakened politically by the Iraq war, remember). Brown's solution? Remove housing costs from the inflation index, and that will stop the BoE from raising IRs. Simple.

There are question whether Brown knew at the time that this index tampering would create this housing bubble; or the size of it; or the consequences for the financial system; or for the real economy; or for millions of people.

But one thing is certain: The more he foresaw, more of a b@stard he was. The less he foresaw, more of a moron he was.

.

Edited by Tired of Waiting

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The real bankers, the shareholders, lost virtually everything as well. This crisis was a c0ck up, not a conspiracy.

See the chart below, Lloyds, 10 years. Other banks will be similar.

lloyds10years.png

source: yahoo finance

Your view is a bit narrow. Shareholders were never relevant to anything (although I believe bank shares have recovered quite nicely): the figures you should be looking at oare concentration of wealth in society and dead give aways like the fact that the super rich are 30% more super rich now than they were prior to the crisis.

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Absolutely incredible.

The thing is, we could see it was happening; it was going on all around us. The revelation here is the admission that it was orchestrated. Not the result of incompetence. Not ineptitude. Not an unexpected perfect storm.

Orchestrated.

And the sheeple lapped it up and continue to do so.

Exactly, although that is what many would have you believe.

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That's NOTHING!

Who are the 'hidden Cult' that Orchestrated this to happen in synchronicity around the globe?

The more technology we use - they more they manipulate us! (It's like slaves putting their own ball & chains on!)

Soon, 'they' will be able to 'erase' you with one mouse click - when the last bits of paper records are 'digitised' - which 'they' constantly press for!

Who are 'they'?

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Your view is a bit narrow. Shareholders were never relevant to anything (although I believe bank shares have recovered quite nicely): the figures you should be looking at oare concentration of wealth in society and dead give aways like the fact that the super rich are 30% more super rich now than they were prior to the crisis.

Sorry Lucifer but I think you are too optimist. You think that some people manage to control the world. It is worse than that. There is nobody in control. It is a constant struggle for power, by thousands powerfull forces, and millions weak forces. And the resultant direction is not planned by anyone.

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Sorry Lucifer but I think you are too optimist. You think that some people manage to control the world. It is worse than that. There is nobody in control. It is a constant struggle for power, by thousands powerfull forces, and millions weak forces. And the resultant direction is not planned by anyone.

You could be right, we could all be at the mercy of the forces of chaos, I can't definitively say you are wrong but my personal belief would be otherwise.

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You could be right, we could all be at the mercy of the forces of chaos, I can't definitively say you are wrong but my personal belief would be otherwise.

This is also my opinion. It's a bit absurd to accept that so many ‘top’people can get so much, so wrong so many times; and still remain in control. Although I could (hopefully) be very wrong of course. There’s something quite disturbing about any unnatural self proclaimed and organised ‘order’ being implemented against natural chaos. Probably why most take comfort in thinking such notion is ridiculous. I hope they're right.

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Guest UK Debt Slave

Absolutely incredible.

The thing is, we could see it was happening; it was going on all around us. The revelation here is the admission that it was orchestrated. Not the result of incompetence. Not ineptitude. Not an unexpected perfect storm.

Orchestrated.

And the sheeple lapped it up and continue to do so.

I've been saying it was deliberately orchestrated for years, only to be dismissed as TFH nutter

Incompetence on this scale is just non-sensical. There is method in their madness. The central bankers pursued low interest rate policies for a decade and it is inconceivable that they didn't understand the consequences.

The thought that these fekkers deliberately planned global economic collapse is pretty terrifying, so much so that most people dismiss the idea as hokum.

I maintain my conclusion that global economic collapse was planned deliberately

Edited by UK Debt Slave

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I've been saying it was deliberately orchestrated for years, only to be dismissed as TFH nutter

Incompetence on this scale is just non-sensical. There is method in their madness. The central bankers pursued low interest rate policies for a decade and it is inconceivable that they didn't understand the consequences.

The thought that these fekkers deliberately planned global economic collapse is pretty terrifying, so much so that most people dismiss the idea as hokum.

I maintain my conclusion that global economic collapse was planned deliberately

+1

Yes. its a simple process...engineer a delibaerate economic crisis, panic people into accpeting that certain businesses need huge amounts of taxpayer support, result transfer of wealth from rich to poor. That taxpayer support then has to be paid for with cuts to service and tax increases (for the little people), the decrease in social provision will not be restored even if times get better, nor will lost opportunities for the not wealthy to better themselves, result more wealth transferred to the wealthy and more future life chances (and this bit is crucial) stolen from the not wealthy, thus more concentration of wealth and opportunity: we are seeing a very deliberate and planned attempt to wind up (indeed, reverse) the process of (all be it limited) income redistributution and social mobility that began after WW2.

I really do not think most people are aware of how comprehensively their future is being stolen from under their noses.

I think the giveaway is that throughout the chaos the rich keep getting richer and everyone else gets poorer

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I've been saying it was deliberately orchestrated for years, only to be dismissed as TFH nutter

Incompetence on this scale is just non-sensical. There is method in their madness. The central bankers pursued low interest rate policies for a decade and it is inconceivable that they didn't understand the consequences.

The thought that these fekkers deliberately planned global economic collapse is pretty terrifying, so much so that most people dismiss the idea as hokum.

I maintain my conclusion that global economic collapse was planned deliberately

Conflict of interests. A common problem is timing. For instance:

Bank directors had a short term interest, on annual bonuses, in conflict with shareholders long term interest. Shareholders lost the most, by far - from (our) Pension Funds to rich families - deeply fecked.

Gordon Brown had a short term interest in 2003: to win the 2005 General Election. (Please see my post above, #13)

You are assuming that there is a co-ordination between all the political and economical elites, from Labour to the Tories, from all the middle and upper classes, etc. There isn't. They compete for power and money up there. It was a systemic failure. Lack of proper, long term co-ordination.

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Conflict of interests. A common problem is timing. For instance:

Bank directors had a short term interest, on annual bonuses, in conflict with shareholders long term interest. Shareholders lost the most, by far - from (our) Pension Funds to rich families - deeply fecked.

Gordon Brown had a short term interest in 2003: to win the 2005 General Election. (Please see my post above, #13)

You are assuming that there is a co-ordination between all the political and economical elites, from Labour to the Tories, from all the middle and upper classes, etc. There isn't. They compete for power and money up there. It was a systemic failure. Lack of proper, long term co-ordination.

From these groups, yes, absolutely, the rest, no...thee middle class in particular is just another chicken for plucking....

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You are assuming that there is a co-ordination between all the political and economical elites, from Labour to the Tories, from all the middle and upper classes, etc. There isn't. They compete for power and money up there. It was a systemic failure. Lack of proper, long term co-ordination.

If it were a chaotic game of chance the plutocrats would lose a hand every now and then. They don't.

As for your point about competing groups I doubt very many people would disagree with that, but how does the existence of competing interest groups invalidate the proposition that a small group of people exercise disproportionate (not total) influence over human events through the creation and control of our existing money system?

They wouldn't have to co-ordinate the actions of those competing groups you talk about. They could just manipulate the flow and cost of credit and let human nature do the rest

How many times was a central bank forced on America only to be abolished by people who believed this was taking place? Isn't it something like six?

Edited by Charlton Peston

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