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Wigan were a non-league club ?15 years ago.

It takes decades of success to build up the support that can fill a 40,000 stadium week in week out.

TV money and big money "investors" distort the market, it used to be that the biggest clubs were the highest because they had more gate income every week. Now the clubs are much less reliant upon gate income you can stay up in the prem with virtually no support. I'm not having a pop at Wigan but it would be a better league if they were replaced by, for example, Leeds; the games would have far more atmosphere.

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That bloke from China just walked away from Liverpool..............all of these clubs have been about "pass the parcell" buy it run it & pass it on @ 100% + a few years later............sadly for the Yanks (RBS) the music stopped.

Mike

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In the Scottish Premier League today, Hamilton vs Hearts has 2,600 odd. That's 2000 less than Southend, who are joint bottom of the English Second Division.

Totally unsustainable IMHO for some teams. There will be many more 'Portsmouths' to come over the next couple of years

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Most of the earnings from the Premiership is from the TV rights and other sponsorship stuff that goes on. Gate earnings are just a bit of icing on the cake.

Thats why the lower quality clubs (Wigan and newly promoted Blackpool) would consider it a triumph still to be there for next season.

But yes Chelsea must have been seen by Wigan fans as one of the top games of the season.

I have a Blackpool season ticket £387 for an average seat in the stand for all the home premiership games. If I cannot make all the games (and I cannot as I am out of the Country for some of December and a lot of January I will make sure I try and get to the big four Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool (which I will miss) and Man U.

Will report back next week on how busy Blackpool (first home game Fulham) is but I suspect Bloomfield Rd will be full as it is a much smaller ground anyway. Whatever the results Blackpool will have a good season, its next season they will suffer when they go straight back down, still let their followers enjoy the moment while they have it.

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I read that for the first time in 20 years, Man U season tickets went on general sale this year. Granted they have 50k + of them, but there used to be a 'dead mans shoes' waiting list.

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thats not too bad,what does a season ticket cost?wigan must be in serious trouble if they cant fill the ground for chelsea?or am I missing something?

Cheapest is £350, which compared to others i think is very good.

I think all Premeirship gates are down since the recession started some more than others. Infact all leagues will show lower gates im sure.

Your right, normally when the good teams are in town you get a good attendance, Villa are always sold out when they play the better teams, which is 43600.

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In the Scottish Premier League today, Hamilton vs Hearts has 2,600 odd. That's 2000 less than Southend, who are joint bottom of the English Second Division.

Totally unsustainable IMHO for some teams. There will be many more 'Portsmouths' to come over the next couple of years

Depends if thats not far from the average they will be ok.

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Arsenal was full today and the waiting list for season tickets is several years.

That's what was they said at Man Utd 5 years ago, this from 23/07/10:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/8850768.stm

"It is also unclear how many of the club's 8,500 premium seats - 7,000 executive seats and 1,500 hospitality packages - have been sold. Over 40% of Manchester United's match-day revenue comes from these premium seats, despite them making up only 11% of Old Trafford's 76,000 capacity.

The need to place season tickets on general sale - seven weeks after the deadline for renewals had passed - also raises questions about the club's much-trumpeted waiting list, an untapped reservoir of support supposed to number 60,000 fans. "

From morningstaronline on Fri:

"Manchester United's anti-Glazer faction fear huge sums are going to be heading out of Old Trafford after a steep rise in the interest rates on controversial payment-in-kind (PIK) notes raised to complete the family's takeover in 2005.

Apparent failure to meet terms laid down in the PIK loan agreement by August 16 meant the interest rates have shot up from 14.25 to 16.25 per cent." :huh::huh:

Edited by deflation

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Wigan were a non-league club ?15 years ago.

It takes decades of success to build up the support that can fill a 40,000 stadium week in week out.

TV money and big money "investors" distort the market, it used to be that the biggest clubs were the highest because they had more gate income every week. Now the clubs are much less reliant upon gate income you can stay up in the prem with virtually no support. I'm not having a pop at Wigan but it would be a better league if they were replaced by, for example, Leeds; the games would have far more atmosphere.

Your probs right.. Umm the "labour party "of football.

Gordon the clown as club mascot..

Economics of the bewildered..

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Wigan were a non-league club ?15 years ago.

They've been in the league since 1978. Wimbledon came up in the same year.

I went to see WBA play them on Boxing day 1991 at the old stadium. Stood on a grassy bank, no proper terrace and beat them 1-0, luckily. They've come a long way, and we know what happened to Wimbledon.

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I read that for the first time in 20 years, Man U season tickets went on general sale this year. Granted they have 50k + of them, but there used to be a 'dead mans shoes' waiting list.

True being pushed everywhere £688 for stretford end

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Sorry to wander a bit O/T, but I have an anecdotal on the subject of another sporting event attendance & the recession.

A friend of mine who runs a car park next to a big NW England race course today, told me that the car park was only half as full as it usually is on race days. He was shocked.

Edited by Saving For a Space Ship

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Sorry to wander a bit O/T, but I have an anecdotal on the subject of another sporting event attendance & the recession.

A friend of mine who runs a car park next to a big NW England race course today, told me that the car park was only half as full as it usually is on race days. He was shocked.

I've noticed similar things recently, I took the kids to the cinema today and was surprised at how empty it was for a saturday.

Edited by SavingBear

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lovely anecdotal.only been racing once,it was expensive,only saw the horses run by briefly.overpriced,overated and errr over here

Cheers. I should have mentioned that he's been running the same car park for 15+ years, so it takes a lot to shock him, as he's seen most things before. There's a distinct drop in paralytic drunks rolling about after the races at the exits, pointing again to cash tightening.

I thought I noticed an increase in girls wearing those very high heels, perhaps having to try harder to attract in tougher times.

Generally the racing crowd has gone downhill in the last 2 years, we are seeing more criminal types. However, they have always been a rough lot. with a high low-life content, or 'coach load of scum' as a coach driver I spoke to once referred to them . :D

Edited by Saving For a Space Ship

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that may well explain it.the odd time I happen to see some lower league highlights on the news,(i always watch the stands natch),I see 20,000 grounds near empty with the TV people semingly trying to avoid the empty bits as they pan round.

yep,glazers man u takeover iirc used the club as the collateral,so no problem there then.

this is what I mean,how can they survive.last time round the bidding given SKY was the only bidder for premiership,gave £1.3 bn,why on earth will they pay that much next time with only the BBC as a possible rival?

anyone know what the scots get paid for their TV rights?

Not much. The Glasgow scum get maybe a few million each. If even that. The rest is tapered down.

would be good if you could.also some anecdotal about how people asre managing to keep going despite the costs.is it true the programmes are a fiver?

some small grounds have been replaced by much bigger ones during the strong ;ponzi phase of the ;last fifteen years....roker park,stoke,leicester.yet the populations of some of these towns is barely over 100,000 eg stoke,how are they hoping to fill 40,000?

anyone any idea which club has the highest stadium to population ratio.

sorry to sound like a geek,im jsut fascinated

Dundee ? Population of ~200,000. Two stadiums combined total of ~30,000.

They are also about 50 metres away from each other which is classically British/Scottish and stupid.

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I am a Chelsea fan and was there today, have been the last three seasons away at wigan (all matches in the first month or so of the season to a good barometer).

Each season the gate has dropped a 2 to 3 thousand - each time we have taken a sold out or near enough allocation.

I really feel sorry for them, they have the third cheapest season tickets in all of the four divisions but crowds seem to be dropping away. Then they were a 3k crowd club 15 or so years ago in the Springfield Park days.......i too remember the grass bank and bike shed stand above it.

Crowds seem to be down a touch this season - Birminghams crowd was poor today. Autumn will be a good test of the lack of spend effecting attendances.

(Wigan were quite good going forward - shocking at the back)

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Most of the earnings from the Premiership is from the TV rights and other sponsorship stuff that goes on. Gate earnings are just a bit of icing on the cake.

Thats why the lower quality clubs (Wigan and newly promoted Blackpool) would consider it a triumph still to be there for next season.

But yes Chelsea must have been seen by Wigan fans as one of the top games of the season.

I have a Blackpool season ticket £387 for an average seat in the stand for all the home premiership games. If I cannot make all the games (and I cannot as I am out of the Country for some of December and a lot of January I will make sure I try and get to the big four Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool (which I will miss) and Man U.

Will report back next week on how busy Blackpool (first home game Fulham) is but I suspect Bloomfield Rd will be full as it is a much smaller ground anyway. Whatever the results Blackpool will have a good season, its next season they will suffer when they go straight back down, still let their followers enjoy the moment while they have it.

Blackpool claim to have more or less sold out every home game this season..(by the way, a very interesting article)..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1300363/Pier-pressure-How-Blackpool-FC-went-players-washing-kit-Premier-League-line-90m.html

As for Wigan, they're a tiny club by premiership standards, and rather "unfashionable", who are trying to attract supporters from a small fanbase. Its very competitive in the NW, with the fanbase highly fragmented due to the sheer number of FL & Premier League clubs in and around the vicinity.

They haven't really got a successful history to fall back on (such as Leeds or Southampton). Wigan have only been a league club for 32 years. Bigger clubs manage to hold on to their status as being a "big boy" even though, in footballing terms, they aren't. I've always believed that Wigan was a Rugby League town. Looking at Wigan Warriors attendances over the last few years would probably give a better representation of how well the area is doing..

Ticket prices are barmy.. My club are in League One. An average game can cost £20...

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Sorry to wander a bit O/T, but I have an anecdotal on the subject of another sporting event attendance & the recession.

A friend of mine who runs a car park next to a big NW England race course today, told me that the car park was only half as full as it usually is on race days. He was shocked.

I suspect it is Haydock Park. People go to the races for the on course betting (and to have a drink) when times get tougher gambling (provided there is no addition) is perhaps one of the easier discretionary spends to reign in!!!

I've noticed similar things recently, I took the kids to the cinema today and was surprised at how empty it was for a saturday.

You want to try going on a Wednesday if the movie is popular you often won't get in. Speaks volumes about how more and more people are taking advantage of offers touted by Companies such as Orange. Personally I prefer it not so busy and would be happy to pay for two full price tickets as opposed to one with one free to achieve that.

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ANYONE who buys a ticket for a football game is a mug.

Bankers lust love mugs.

Why dont you all just go on strike...watch the tickets tumble in price...watch the injustice of primadonna footballers disappear.

see the piggies squeal.

AT least that would be GUARANTEED entertainment.

And it would cost you nothing...and when you returned to your beloved game...it would all be so much better...and cheaper.

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96% turn out yesterday at Cardiff and we won 4-0!

The remaining 4% were empty away seats. I guess its a long way from Doncaster.

WE won? WE?

what did WE win?

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You want to try going on a Wednesday if the movie is popular you often won't get in. Speaks volumes about how more and more people are taking advantage of offers touted by Companies such as Orange. Personally I prefer it not so busy and would be happy to pay for two full price tickets as opposed to one with one free to achieve that.

Agree with this. I went a few weeks ago for inception on Wed and the queue was halfway down the street and it had already sold out with 20 minutes to start time. Ended up seeing Toy Story 3D in the end which was on another 30 mins later (in the last 30 seats for that). The ticket prices have got atrocious though - £11+ for a crap seat at a 3D showing (premier seats ie those with a decent view are now another £1.50 each). Frankly I expect to pay no more than a fiver for a cinema ticket outside of central London or IMAX so 2 for 1 just brings it down to "normal" prices for me. The cost of a cinema ticket is starting to creep into live theatre prices which I don't see how it can be justified.

Edited by greencat

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I think far more telling than attendances is that on almost all the Sky live games I've 'appened across, when they list the squad at the beginning, almost every side has empty slots as they are "....unable to name a full squad"

There is just not the embarassment of riches anymore, certainly outside the Premier League, that means clubs can have dozens of fringe players in their squads.

In reference to what Bloo Loo says up there, I was a massive supporter of a certain London team through my teens and early twenties, there is a certain working class camararderie involved that's difficult to explain. However, Sky have destroyed the game, and because of them I no longer go. As you suggest, I'm no longer willing to fund the lifestyles of the players, and further encourage Sky's destruction of the game with hype, advertising, corporatisation and kick-off time shuffling.

English football sold it's soul in the nineties to Sky. Everyone will tell you the quality is better, but the soul has gone in favour of out of town Lego mega-domes, face-painting, all-seater stadia, goal music, mascots, 5pm kick-offs, shitstains like Jamie Redknapp and Andy Gray, euurghh. Not for me anymore. But I'll be here if they ever come back looking for real supporters. B)

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  • 261 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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