Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
bogbrush

Bright Kids Give Me Confidence For The Future

Recommended Posts

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-10926532

This opinion seems finally be making it through into mainstream thinking. At work here we have three very high calibre engineering guys who could easily be at University loading up with debt and paper but who are now at 20-22 and flying in their careers and education. And their bank accounts are very healthy too.

The more people think for themselves the more positive the future can be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-10926532

This opinion seems finally be making it through into mainstream thinking. At work here we have three very high calibre engineering guys who could easily be at University loading up with debt and paper but who are now at 20-22 and flying in their careers and education. And their bank accounts are very healthy too.

The more people think for themselves the more positive the future can be.

Its certainly shows that they have thought it through rather than blindly following what everyone else was doing. If you can get a job with some training and a career path then its going to be better financially in the short to medium term, and possibly the long term also given the levels of debt that students take on these days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But the government also says university graduates, on average, have better employment prospects and can expect to earn at least £100,000, after tax, more than non-graduates over their working lives.

Really? Really? Maybe once...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-10926532

This opinion seems finally be making it through into mainstream thinking. At work here we have three very high calibre engineering guys who could easily be at University loading up with debt and paper but who are now at 20-22 and flying in their careers and education. And their bank accounts are very healthy too.

The more people think for themselves the more positive the future can be.

Back in the 1950s and the 1960s learning a profession like accountancy or law on the job was very common.

It is little short of criminal that the educational system has been manipulated to make it more difficult.

The special pleading of the University spokesman about how a degree was essential if one wants to rise later in a profession is simply immoral. A qualified professional is a qualified professional regardless of what route they took. I can not see how a second rate degree in history from a duff accademic institution elevates them above their peers. But then I suppose that the the Universities have got to protect the long term fraud that they perpetrate on the young

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really? Really? Maybe once...

In any case, if you graduate with £20k of debt (which is not that unlikely) add in interest and the shortfall in wages in the early years, and the extrra £40k tax you will pay on that £100k, and suddenly your hardly better off even if you do achieve that extra income over and above what you would have earned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But the government also says university graduates, on average, have better employment prospects and can expect to earn at least £100,000, after tax, more than non-graduates over their working lives.

Which over a working life is f*ck all really, set against the certainty of the debt and time lost. I don't even buy that now, but even on the stated terms it's not a compelling offer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In any case, if you graduate with £20k of debt (which is not that unlikely) add in interest and the shortfall in wages in the early years, and the extrra £40k tax you will pay on that £100k, and suddenly your hardly better off even if you do achieve that extra income over and above what you would have earned.

In that article they also mention snobbery, that people will look down on you if you do not have a degree? Again, really? I have to say, my friends do not give a toss, and nor should most employers. Experience is everything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, went to uni to AVOID three years of work.

Did show me what a bunch of shockingly overpaid, underworked and self assured bunch work in that industry though, and what a gullible bunch the chinese and indians are to pay full price, or else their universities must be REALLY crap for them to come over here.

Most the Indians seemed to have jobs already lined up for them in the family business, just wanted the cache of going to an English university.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really? Really? Maybe once...

Setting aside those who were mature students, graduates now at the end of their working lives are those who graduated 40+ years ago and were less than 5% of their generation.

Lifetime earnings figures are not yet in for those of us now in mid-career, let alone today's young. But anyone who believes in the laws of supply and demand must infer that a tenfold increase in supply should largely kill off whatever premium older graduates have been able to command.

I'd still recommend a good degree to the intelligent young: it will enrich your life. But absolutely not on economic grounds! And if a young person I knew were considering a degree at a UK non-Russell-Group institution I'd be challenging them to justify the choice rather than encouraging it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hold on has everybody read the article?

Two of them want to be accountants

One of them wants to be a solicitor.

Hardly careers which can save the country right? If anything they destroy the country. If they were uber engineers like Brunel types then yes they could save the country. But accountants and solicitors? :huh:

I would also note both career paths are heavily dependent on three things:

  • More people coming up behind you to sustain the pyramid schemes pepetuated in such industries. I.e. you climb the ladder then it's your turn to exploit those under you.
  • The general economy doing well as they suck blood out of other businesses. This is big, in Manchester we just had the Waiyin village association party and everybody was scrabbling to steal business of everybody else. In 2008 there was uber theft of clients anyway.
  • Are both extra vulnerable to outsourcing which has improved massively over the years. Even when they do manage to steal business off other people a lot of it is fronting whereby they send it to India and put their own name on it.
Edited by ken_ichikawa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In that article they also mention snobbery, that people will look down on you if you do not have a degree? Again, really? I have to say, my friends do not give a toss, and nor should most employers. Experience is everything.

When I went to Uni (1991) there was still definitely an impression that it was a thing bright people did, and expected to earn more as a result.

Now if I employed someone I wouldn't give a toss if they had a degree. Can they do the job competently, and how is their attitude? That is all that counts.

3 years of getting pissed at the Student Union bar and a couple of hours of lectures a day (they may or may not have attended) with some exams at the end do not automatically make someone more competent at a job. Just how much debt to people want to get in to so they can have a daft picture of themselves in a mortar board?

One welcome unintended consequence of Edukashun, Edukashun, Edukashun is that employers will now look at a candidate's actual merits rather than some letters after their name and whether they have pushy, monied parents.

Online learning is the future. Bloated bureaucracies in education need a good hiding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, went to uni to AVOID three years of work.

Did show me what a bunch of shockingly overpaid, underworked and self assured bunch work in that industry though, and what a gullible bunch the chinese and indians are to pay full price, or else their universities must be REALLY crap for them to come over here.

Most the Indians seemed to have jobs already lined up for them in the family business, just wanted the cache of going to an English university.

I work for an international school system in Hong Kong with 5 large secondary schools. The students are from predominantly very wealthy, well connected Chinese/Asian families. For the first time in its history more students have gone to the US over the UK after graduation this year. In addition ALL the bright kids are now US bound with only mediocre students at best heading for the UK. The UK is certainly not seen as 'prestigious' anymore and this trend looks set to continue. A handful now remain in HK or heading elsewhere in Asia, but this is still a very small number. OZ and Canada more popular though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had the most fun 3 years of my life at university, met loads of people I am still friends with a decade later and met my future wife there.

Trading that for another 3 years in an artificially lit office moving figures round on a spreadsheet doesn't bare thinking of.

I sometimes wonder if the right wing nutjobs on here realise there is more to life than how much money you can accumulate.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I work for an international school system in Hong Kong with 5 large secondary schools. The students are from predominantly very wealthy, well connected Chinese/Asian families. For the first time in its history more students have gone to the US over the UK after graduation this year. In addition ALL the bright kids are now US bound with only mediocre students at best heading for the UK. The UK is certainly not seen as 'prestigious' anymore and this trend looks set to continue. A handful now remain in HK or heading elsewhere in Asia, but this is still a very small number. OZ and Canada more popular though

thats strange I was reading an article on just this, and it blamed the uber toughening up of visas meaning they now take 6 weeks while results come in at mid August meaning students miss several weeks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-10926532

This opinion seems finally be making it through into mainstream thinking. At work here we have three very high calibre engineering guys who could easily be at University loading up with debt and paper but who are now at 20-22 and flying in their careers and education. And their bank accounts are very healthy too.

The more people think for themselves the more positive the future can be.

Don't know why that fills you with nhope for the future..I think our problems are a little bit more deepseated, not least that these kinds

of opportunities are actually pretty limited.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had the most fun 3 years of my life at university, met loads of people I am still friends with a decade later and met my future wife there.

Trading that for another 3 years in an artificially lit office moving figures round on a spreadsheet doesn't bare thinking of.

I sometimes wonder if the right wing nutjobs on here realise there is more to life than how much money you can accumulate.....

Yes, because that is all work is, isn't it. I bet people who went to work rather than Uni wish they could have met people, gone out socially, been introduced to future partners... :rolleyes:

'Work' is not just about accumulating money. It is about fulfilling a sense of purpose and personal ambition, as well as being paid the nominal amount of money required to facilitate life in this country.

You have just as many prejudices as any 'nutjob' on here.

I'll just add some dots to make myself seem more enigmatic.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, because that is all work is, isn't it. I bet people who went to work rather than Uni wish they could have met people, gone out socially, been introduced to future partners... :rolleyes:

'Work' is not just about accumulating money. It is about fulfilling a sense of purpose and personal ambition, as well as being paid the nominal amount of money required to facilitate life in this country.

You have just as many prejudices as any 'nutjob' on here.

I'll just add some dots to make myself seem more enigmatic.....

I found "studying" at University more fun than "working" for a living, in fact that seems to be the experience of most people I meet. It isn't for everyone, I also know people who didn't go who are perfectly happy with life.

I'm glad that you have found a job that gives you a sense of purpose. Personally I have yet to find a job that hasn't seemed massively dull once I've done it for a few months. I'm now self employed so at least I can control how much time I have to waste working.

It works well.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed on the US...... engineering here doesn't compete with that in Germany or Berkeley/MIT/Stanford etc. In fact we struggle to hire engineers as they are generally very poor and the numbers are dwindling.

Good article - I certainly regret my student debt though don't think I could do analogue design without my degree! I would have loved to have gone straight into work earning money etc. There are a million arguments either way.

What really surprised me was the interview of two students this morning. One guy wanting to do aeronautical engineering - he got AAA in maths, physics and chemistry. Good to see. Then some girl got AAAA* in media studies, photography, history and English..... needless to say they were all very pleased with that and were praising her - more than what they seemed to praise the other student who in my view has done REAL tough subjects and wants to go into a real profession.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What really surprised me was the interview of two students this morning. One guy wanting to do aeronautical engineering - he got AAA in maths, physics and chemistry. Good to see. Then some girl got AAAA* in media studies, photography, history and English..... needless to say they were all very pleased with that and were praising her - more than what they seemed to praise the other student who in my view has done REAL tough subjects and wants to go into a real profession.

The devil is always in the detail, not that many numpties would notice that...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I went to uni 95-98. Great time, lots of debt (mostly my own fault, but paid it all back).

Wouldn't swap it for 3 years more work and just having the piece of paper has made a huge

difference to work prospects.

The degree was a joke. Could have done the whole 3 years in about 2 weeks (seriously not

exaggerating). I felt bad for those that took it all a bit serious. I remember one girl who

wouldn't take out her student loan because she wanted a house and a car and no debt when she

was older, but had zero fun.

I feel sorry for the bright kids today. The exams have been constantly weakened, whilst the

standardised grading pushed further up. In my day (and it had already begun then) you could

still stand out with 3 or 4 A grades at A level, now you'd just be part of the pack. Kid's

are probably as clever as they always have been, but by the govt trying to make it look like

everyone's got better, the reverse has happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That the media has turned over practically all of its coverage to A-Level results today makes me sick to the stomach.

The obsession with A-Levels result is all out of proportion, suspiciously so. What grades some 18 year-old kids got for their A-levels is a private matter for them, in the same way the fact that 20,000 or so people get married every Saturday is a private matter too.

Don't other qualifications deserve their day in the sun? Aren't there other qualities that a person has to offer that deserve merit? Integrity for instance. (I wonder how many A-levellers went on to apply for liar loans?)

When was the last time the media had such a frenzy over those qualifying as GPs? Actuaries? Masters Degrees? Biologists? Barristers? PhDs? Financial Planners? Chartered Engineers? Bankers? (Where the spot-light especially deserves to be shone).

Why focus just on A-Level Results?

How strange that A-level results from all over the country are all published on the same day, yet universities seem to publish their degree results according to their own individual timetables? Moreover, professional bodies all publish their examination results all on different dates too. How bizarre that A-level result should be published so consistently and so conveniently on the same day.

You'd think the nation should have a right to know and to celebrate how well professionally, academically and vocationally qualified we are as a nation at all levels in all areas, competing as we do in the global market place. But for some strange reason the media only seem to want to cover A-level results, the same way they only wanted to talk about house price increases being a 'good' thing. What is so speical about A-levels that deserves so much attention? Is it some pervy attraction to photo-genic 18 year old girls smiling, hugging and kissing each other?

Surely its got to be more than just that, and of course it is : A-level results day is a giant recruitment advert design to entice kids to commit themselves to a life of debt even before they've lived away from the parental home. A-level success is the first step on a journey leading to the next generation's lifelong indebtedness to the banks.

First its the A-level 'success', then its the university uber-debt, then the realisation the boomers had priced them out of any chance of a home years before they were even a sparkle in their daddy's eye.

Just to show you how soon the debt burden begins, I saw professionally designed glossy flyers being handed out a few weeks ago promoting an A-level "Results Party" clearly backed with all the resources of a Ministry of Sound calibre outfit. Also it would seem no A-level pupil (they were pupils in my day, the term student was reserved for those at university) these days has any credibility unless they've done the Newquay thing. The culture that now surrounds A-levels is hideous and repugnant.

When I see kids celebrating their A-level results, I see lemmings beguiled by the Pied Piper's music, flattered by the pandering attention, their hopes and dreams cruelly manipulated by their cynical elders. Not knowing any different, tragically these poor gullible fools are being lured to their peril following a carefully crafted fate by the preceding generation they will only realise when its way too late.

Watching financial organisations waiting to offer A-levellers finance to get them through university is the financial equivalent of watching drug pushers in the playground or child molesters waiting outside the school gate. Really: what is the difference?

The media are merry shills in this sick game.

Edited by Dave Spart

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I dont care whether they have a degree or not - its whether they can do the job in question. This week I'm looking to employee a new senior role in my team, development for a big FTSE100 company. There appears to be no real relation between education and actual abilities it appears. I was rather dismayed by the fact that some of the most fundemental questions I could ask couldnt be answered by someone with 8yrs+ experience. Degree or not, people arent cutting the mustard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-10926532

This opinion seems finally be making it through into mainstream thinking. At work here we have three very high calibre engineering guys who could easily be at University loading up with debt and paper but who are now at 20-22 and flying in their careers and education. And their bank accounts are very healthy too.

The more people think for themselves the more positive the future can be.

It's a misleading article as it makes it seem as if any A Level kid can saunter off and get a nice opening at a law firm. 20 years ago all sorts of employers had trainee schemes for school leavers but they've mostly dried up as debt-based education took over.

The elephant in the room is that 75% of jobs growth is in low wage industries so anyone, graduate or not, will have to be super clued-in, super intelligent or super lucky to land one of the dwindling number of acceptably-paid jobs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back in the 1950s and the 1960s learning a profession like accountancy or law on the job was very common.

It is little short of criminal that the educational system has been manipulated to make it more difficult.

The special pleading of the University spokesman about how a degree was essential if one wants to rise later in a profession is simply immoral. A qualified professional is a qualified professional regardless of what route they took. I can not see how a second rate degree in history from a duff accademic institution elevates them above their peers. But then I suppose that the the Universities have got to protect the long term fraud that they perpetrate on the young

well, according to a local TV report...yesterday I beleive, Ofsted reported that some young people were AT RISK because the people on their case WERENT FULLY QUALIFIED.

so, if you have no common sense, but are qualified to tick the boxes and SIGN the declarations as a PRO, your clients are LESS AT RISK.

Public servants need to be getting on with doing their jobs how we want, at reasonable pay and accountability. Those who are unneeded should be gone. We dont need a load of QUALIFIEDS to check up and ask questions.

QUalifieds holds back real talent...20 years in the job and fail that exam...and you aint goin nowhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The elephant in the room is that 75% of jobs growth is in low wage industries so anyone, graduate or not, will have to be super clued-in, super intelligent or super lucky to land one of the dwindling number of acceptably-paid jobs.

I wouldnt say that was entirely true. I'm not looking for outright perfection myself, just someone who's got a good mental skillset to solve problems. 50 CVs later, its appearing even that is too much to ask for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 261 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.