David Cameron's Cost-Cutting Echoes That Of Thatcher's First Government

[macfarlan]

Observer article, sorry if this has been posted already. I'm a bit behind with my reading atm

Linky

I thought this bit from the article would go down particularly well here;

There is always scope to eliminate waste and improve productivity. But both in the early 1980s and now, I fear a powerful motive for the deficit cutters is an old-fashioned rightwing dislike of public spending and welfare per se.

[deflation]

There is always scope to eliminate waste and improve productivity. But both in the early 1980s and now, I fear a powerful motive for the deficit cutters is an old-fashioned rightwing dislike of public spending and welfare per se.

Yes there is, but why is it only mentioned when cuts are coming?

It's as if when GDP is rising and the economy is doing well that waste and pretend jobs don't matter. Pathetic.

[macfarlan]

Yes there is, but why is it only mentioned when cuts are coming?

It's as if when GDP is rising and the economy is doing well that waste and pretend jobs don't matter. Pathetic.

Who didn't mention it?

I thought this bit was funny too;

One of the obsessions of the coalition now is to cut welfare payments in general and invalidity benefit in particular. Yet, ironically, it was the Thatcher government that largely created the so-called dependency culture by deliberately encouraging employment exchanges to direct people towards invalidity benefit in order to massage the unemployment figures

[Goat]

I fear a powerful motive for the deficit cutters is an old-fashioned rightwing dislike of public spending and welfare per se.

Yep, that and the deficit of >10% of GDP.

The cost of 13 years of Labour misrule I'm afraid.

[Injin]

Yep, that and the deficit of >10% of GDP.

The cost of 13 years of Labour misrule I'm afraid.

This shit has been coming for 80 years and became unstoppable 30 years ago.

They have to cut, they have no choice.

Obviously they will carry on paying their mates and withdraw money from their enemies, that's the whole point of politics.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Injin

[Tired of Waiting]

Observer article, sorry if this has been posted already. I'm a bit behind with my reading atm

Linky

I thought this bit from the article would go down particularly well here;

There is always scope to eliminate waste and improve productivity. But both in the early 1980s and now, I fear a powerful motive for the deficit cutters is an old-fashioned rightwing dislike of public spending and welfare per se.

"Dear (macfarlan), I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/17/liam-byrne-note-successor

The last government was borrowing almost 500 million pounds a day.

And it is just a little less than that now. Sorry. It is a disaster.

[Tired of Waiting]

Yep, that and the deficit of >10% of GDP.

The cost of 13 years of Labour misrule I'm afraid.

+ 1

[jammo]

OMG OMG OMG!! You're right! Why is this evil coalition cutting when we have so much leeway left over from the previous prudent administration! You know the one that loved your freedom, your social mobility, your goddamned estate agents and ruthless specuators! How dare they, how very dare they! Bring back Labour - they knew what they were doing - they had a masterplan. How dare the coalition not work to this masterplan of permanently trapping the poor into generational depravity. How dare they not continue to make the underclass of unemployables (a core Labour voter incidentally) slightly better off than minimum wage workers. The flaming bastards!

[needsleep]

I like William Keegan but he needs to find another paper to write for.

The Guardian seems to be pretending it didn't encourage it's readership to vote for the LibDems, the enablers of the Tory spending plans. If it is going to bleat with repeated leaders, articles and commentary with the same theme as Keegan's comments is it going to stand up at some point and admit it made a terrible mistake.

[Mega]

What cuts?

Mike

[Executive Sadman]

Make paying tax voluntary.

See how much people really care about public services.

[jammo]

Make paying tax voluntary.

See how much people really care about public services.

If the people realised that they don't actually need a government - that would be a dangerous thing! What would happen if we didn't have a government? Well, the same ungodly things that happen during the summer recess - terrible. Utter chaos

I suppose at least we no longer have socialists in charge. Given time, they'd have had RFID chips stapled into us at the point of birth by now - they loved control, they did. Hell, we still have their insidious camera poles scattered around ominously spying on us <shudders> at least they never got to putting lazers/ pain rays on them, too.

The less government there is, the better - trust me on that one

[dissident junk]

I won't jump on this, but I will provide a bit of an anecdote.

I was doing some work for an academic two weeks ago, and we got to talking about the coalition. This academic made it fairly clear through the early stage of the conversation that they were a left leaning, Guardian-reading, Labour voter, and started to chat a bit about the "Tory cuts" and "neoThatcherism" etc.

Now I know this academic pretty well, and we have a friendly relationship, so I mentioned a few figures: about the deficit, revenues, the debt both including and excluding future liability and PFI, and some related factoids about GDP, average incomes, the size of the rich pool etc.

And here's the thing: this academic was shocked. Like really jaw-droppingly shocked, and said: "I had no idea it was that bad." To which, I replied: "Well, actually, it's a bit worse." And I talked about consumer debt depressing future demand, the impact of illiteracy etc.

By the end of the conversation, this academic was totally shell-shocked and uttered the words: "well, that puts the cuts in a completely different light." And the killer: "we are completely ******ed, aren't we?"

This exchange confirmed a suspicion that I have had for a while. I think that the overwhelming majority of people on the left have no idea how bad the fiscal and economic situation in Britain really is. They have no idea, and that goes for backbench MPs, councillors, journalists, academics, commentators, agitators, the left-leaning media .... they just do not know.

And that is the reason they keep coming out with such utter tripe. I used to feel sick when I heard or read some of their responses to the current situation, and got to the point where I just saw them as some evil demon host come to ravage the country in order to chew on babies' bones -- for that was the only explanation for their fiscal and economic utterings that I could find (either that or they were destroying the country so that China could invade easily).

But I realise now that major problem is that most of the modern left in Britain are not trained to think about economics. And this is part of something else, a larger blindness, that I can't quite put my finger on -- a kind of blindness towards a large swathe of human systems, relationships and motivations that, for example, get bread into shops and gas into pipes.

[dubsie]

Make paying tax voluntary.

See how much people really care about public services.

but that's human nature but if we lose our jobs we expect handouts. The whole point of the welfare system was to

protect workers against sickness and unemployment and not to support lifetime welfare.

We need a safety net and the support should be there for all those that have paid in.

[needsleep]

But I realise now that major problem is that most of the modern left in Britain are not trained to think about economics. And this is part of something else, a larger blindness, that I can't quite put my finger on -- a kind of blindness towards a large swathe of human systems, relationships and motivations that, for example, get bread into shops and gas into pipes.

They do say money is the root of all evil. No doubt even a left-leaning, labour voting, guardian reading academic can be seduced by the illusion of hundreds of thousands in unearned wealth in their property, or erm, hundreds of thousands they worked really hard for by having Polish workers in to fit their designer kitchens. I agree there is a general blindness. It's also the blindness that causes people who feel bulletproof to enthusiastically celebrate cuts without realising the cuts are the financial equivalent of them being rogered in the ass with a broken bottle for 5 years.

Not many people really understand this whole thing. Personally I'm still a Labour supporter because nobody has really shown we'd be in a different place now under the Tories.

Edited August 18, 2010 by needsleep

[bogbrush]

Observer article, sorry if this has been posted already. I'm a bit behind with my reading atm

Linky

I thought this bit from the article would go down particularly well here;

There is always scope to eliminate waste and improve productivity. But both in the early 1980s and now, I fear a powerful motive for the deficit cutters is an old-fashioned rightwing dislike of public spending and welfare per se.

She never did cut, it's the great myth.

But yes, I really dislike state direction of resources on a massive scale and will enjoy watching loads of it collapse.

[South Lorne]

Observer article, sorry if this has been posted already. I'm a bit behind with my reading atm

Linky

I thought this bit from the article would go down particularly well here;

There is always scope to eliminate waste and improve productivity. But both in the early 1980s and now, I fear a powerful motive for the deficit cutters is an old-fashioned rightwing dislike of public spending and welfare per se.

...the problem left by Clown Brown is more serious then '79....and even Labour were due to make major deficit cuts this time which they did not announce ... hid them as usual ....this is just left wing drivel from the Observer...what else would you expect from them..?.....

[right_freds_dead]

...the problem left by Clown Brown is more serious then '79....and even Labour were due to make major deficit cuts this time which they did not announce ... hid them as usual ....this is just left wing drivel from the Observer...what else would you expect from them..?.....

please remember when looking back that it wasnt actually gordon brown that did this damage, it was the BRITISH PUBLIC by and large who ran with his insane policies.

he could have set 0.1% rates for buy to let loans but it would still take a member of the public to take the bait.

[South Lorne]

please remember when looking back that it wasnt actually gordon brown that did this damage, it was the BRITISH PUBLIC by and large who ran with his insane policies.

he could have set 0.1% rates for buy to let loans but it would still take a member of the public to take the bait.

...he played his flute like the Pied Piper and the rats will end up drowning in their own bile of greed ....but at the time his false economic miracle looked good and they all believed it....many still do.....

[needsleep]

...the problem left by Clown Brown is more serious then '79....and even Labour were due to make major deficit cuts this time which they did not announce ... hid them as usual ....this is just left wing drivel from the Observer...what else would you expect from them..?.....

Nope, Darling said in March that Labour planned 20% cuts. Nothing was hidden. Just like in 2005 the Tories promised they would out-spend Labour (think about that and understand the implications for where we could be now) during the last parliament they promised to out-cut Labour in this one. Labour went 20% so Tories had to go 25%.

It's a silly little game really.

Agree with what you say about the Observer though. What a pile of shit that paper is.

[South Lorne]

Nope, Darling said in March that Labour planned 20% cuts. Nothing was hidden. Just like in 2005 the Tories promised they would out-spend Labour (think about that and understand the implications for where we could be now) during the last parliament they promised to out-cut Labour in this one. Labour went 20% so Tories had to go 25%.

It's a silly little game really.

Agree with what you say about the Observer though. What a pile of shit that paper is.

...5% is not worth getting excited about ...Darling did not give the outline ...in fact there is no record of where the cuts would come ...the Coalition even now are working the detail ....Alexander will not be having much of a break....re the outspending from 2005 ....it's a bit like now there will be increased spend from the waste saved e.g. NHS....Labour were / are all about waste ....look at their leadership short list ....they're all wasters.....

[needsleep]

Darling did not give the outline

None of the parties did mate. None of them.

Would have been political suicide pre-election.

[South Lorne]

None of the parties did mate. None of them.

Would have been political suicide pre-election.

...after the election pal....where is his detail for comparison sake ....he knew the accounting status or may be he didn't.... now what would you expect from a former Trotskyist...a dreamer ...still is....

[neil324]

The slash and burn policies of Margaret Thatcher's first term didn't do her any favours, as I recall it took a war with the Argentinian Junta to make her popular enough to be re-elected. I wonder if Dave has a geopolitical candidate in mind for a similar political ass saving adventure?

It was only after winning the election post Falklands War by a landslide did she embark on the slash and burn.

She also won again even after tearing the country apart.

[right_freds_dead]

...he played his flute like the Pied Piper and the rats will end up drowning in their own bile of greed ....but at the time his false economic miracle looked good and they all believed it....many still do.....

totally +1. it takes a long time it seems for a dream to die...