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Mikhail Liebenstein

Winter Fuel Payment Cuts

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/7951203/Winter-fuel-payment-cuts-to-hit-millions-of-pensioners.html

This is an interesting policy move by the coalition, raising the qualifying age for winter fuel payments by 6 years and it could possibly go higher.

I fully support the move, as frankly most people just over 60 and  under 70 do not struggle with heating and indeed are not as vulnerable as someone over 70.

They also need to get rid of free bus passes next.

What is interesting though is that I imagine this policy may not be hugely popular with some sections of the electorate who are also likely to vote. But hey why should old people get free stuff any more than any one else.

I did wonder for a minute whether the coalition was falling on the side of younger families more than pensioners, as they are on the most part relatively young. But that said they have also scrapped the ridiculous baby bonds, though the Mile Snatcher bit got pulled back.

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I fully support the move, as frankly most people just over 60 and  under 70 do not struggle with heating and indeed are not as vulnerable as someone over 70.

I agree, alot of 60+ yr olds are simply being given an extra £200 (£250?) for their Christmas shopping. Just about all the 60+'s I know are already on big fat company pensions with at least one massive house fully paid for (which they should be encouraged to sell if it costs too much to heat) whilst at the same time I know many young families who really are worried about paying to heat their homes over the coming winter.

I don't quite understand why the media to be getting their knickers in a twist over this, the portrayal of the elderly lady who is wrapped in blankets worried about putting an extra bar on her heater for a few hours is not who this is going to directly effect.

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A more interesting move would be the cutting of ALL public sector salaries over £25k by 50% of the amount above £25K.

And for Government to NOT stand behind public sector pension commitments.....let the "funds" pay....that is all the recipients are entitled to.

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A more interesting move would be the cutting of ALL public sector salaries over £25k by 50% of the amount above £25K.

And for Government to NOT stand behind public sector pension commitments.....let the "funds" pay....that is all the recipients are entitled to.

I completely agree. This is the only way fair way to make progress with the deficit.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/7951203/Winter-fuel-payment-cuts-to-hit-millions-of-pensioners.html

This is an interesting policy move by the coalition, raising the qualifying age for winter fuel payments by 6 years and it could possibly go higher.

I fully support the move, as frankly most people just over 60 and  under 70 do not struggle with heating and indeed are not as vulnerable as someone over 70.

They also need to get rid of free bus passes next.

What is interesting though is that I imagine this policy may not be hugely popular with some sections of the electorate who are also likely to vote. But hey why should old people get free stuff any more than any one else.

I did wonder for a minute whether the coalition was falling on the side of younger families more than pensioners, as they are on the most part relatively young. But that said they have also scrapped the ridiculous baby bonds, though the Mile Snatcher bit got pulled back.

I think that most Brits over 60 who are not in financial need find it a bit weird that they get bus passes and winter fuel payments. By all means keep them for the needy but it makes perfect sense to scrap them for those not in need.

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A more interesting move would be the cutting of ALL public sector salaries over £25k by 50% of the amount above £25K.

And for Government to NOT stand behind public sector pension commitments.....let the "funds" pay....that is all the recipients are entitled to.

By your definition do you think that ALL public sector employees who earn over £25,000 are not worth what they earn?

There are also many different pension schemes within the public sector. Many have been set up as pay as you go schemes which were obviously beneficial to the government of the day that set them up as they were running a huge surplus at the beginning of these schemes. Now that these schemes are maturing some are slipping deeper into deficit. So you advocate that current members should simply not get a pension?

There has been massive wastage and creation of non jobs in the public sector but you lot are barking up the wrong tree.

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I agree, alot of 60+ yr olds are simply being given an extra £200 (£250?) for their Christmas shopping. Just about all the 60+'s I know are already on big fat company pensions with at least one massive house fully paid for (which they should be encouraged to sell if it costs too much to heat) whilst at the same time I know many young families who really are worried about paying to heat their homes over the coming winter.

I don't quite understand why the media to be getting their knickers in a twist over this, the portrayal of the elderly lady who is wrapped in blankets worried about putting an extra bar on her heater for a few hours is not who this is going to directly effect.

Falling into this bracket, i would like to point out that it is the only benifit i am likely to get. And still contribute a large amount of taxes etc to the pot. So when are we going to see some proper cuts tothe multi benifits of the pure scroungers on many much larger benifits some are on, and a cut in the pensions of many who i am paying. When are we all in it together?

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By your definition do you think that ALL public sector employees who earn over £25,000 are not worth what they earn?

There are also many different pension schemes within the public sector. Many have been set up as pay as you go schemes which were obviously beneficial to the government of the day that set them up as they were running a huge surplus at the beginning of these schemes. Now that these schemes are maturing some are slipping deeper into deficit. So you advocate that current members should simply not get a pension?

There has been massive wastage and creation of non jobs in the public sector but you lot are barking up the wrong tree.

para 1...thats correct.

para 2...people get what they pay for.

para 3...what do you propose...keep them all on inflated wages and keep them all on their pay scales PLUS inflation wage rises?

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I think that most Brits over 60 who are not in financial need find it a bit weird that they get bus passes and winter fuel payments. By all means keep them for the needy but it makes perfect sense to scrap them for those not in need.

...yes, and you can tell who is in need by the amount of tax they pay and/or benefits they receive.

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By your definition do you think that ALL public sector employees who earn over £25,000 are not worth what they earn?

There are also many different pension schemes within the public sector. Many have been set up as pay as you go schemes which were obviously beneficial to the government of the day that set them up as they were running a huge surplus at the beginning of these schemes. Now that these schemes are maturing some are slipping deeper into deficit. So you advocate that current members should simply not get a pension?

There has been massive wastage and creation of non jobs in the public sector but you lot are barking up the wrong tree.

David needs to show that he has the balls to deal with the public sector and his banking masters. At the moment he is giving the impression that he'd rather go after the softer option of those in society who can't really fight back - kind of like the man who beats his wife or the school bully. Let's hope he's not either of those.

Edited by Minos

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Obviously none of you are pensioners!

Look guys, I rely on these payments to part-fund my plane ticket to the southern hemisphere each winter, so don't be so stingy, OK?

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By your definition do you think that ALL public sector employees who earn over £25,000 are not worth what they earn?

Somebody is 'worth' the minimum you have to pay him to convince him to come and do the job (and do it properly). How many civil servants, doctors, teachers etc would quit their jobs if Bloo Loo's '50% off whatever you make over £25k' cut was enacted? The lesson of Ireland is: not many. And of those who do quit, like older public sector workers who were thinking about retiring anyway, I'm sure they can be replaced by younger (and cheaper) workers keen for a chance to get a real job.

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Falling into this bracket, i would like to point out that it is the only benifit i am likely to get. And still contribute a large amount of taxes etc to the pot. So when are we going to see some proper cuts tothe multi benifits of the pure scroungers on many much larger benifits some are on, and a cut in the pensions of many who i am paying. When are we all in it together?

If you are still contributing a "large amount of taxes to the pot" then maybe you don't need to be on benefits?

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first off - many pensioners are not on fat final salary pensions - I am not and neither are most people I know. It is just convenient for those who do not know the reality to lump all boomers into the affluent with large houses, property portfolio, cruise and jet setting lifestyle which is not the reality for us all. My income for the year is around 12K and I pay tax on that (this includes my state pension)

2nd - the payment is for a household which helps single pensioners who are amongst the poorest.

3rd - I do agree it should be means tested but not that the age should be raised - say a household income of 15K should do it and ity would then go to heat the homes of those least able to afford huge heating bills.

OK - I know I have a VI but I do rely on this 200 pounds as it pays about a quarter of my utility bills :P

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Personally I would simplify the entire system and sweep away all benefits aside from the one they are assessed on and need.

No more bus pass this, TV license that, piece of coal here, swimming pool there, tax credits everywhere.

It is all a nonsense built up piecemeal over time as a way of hiding the true costs.

...but...but it all creates employment....if things were simple and logical the DSS dept or what ever they like to call it nowadays could be minimal and run in a cost effective and efficient way.....cutting costs and waste. ;)

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How does the propoganda lead government global warming nonsense affect the winter fuel payments ? Surely it's not needed and we'll all be sweating our ******** off all "winter"?

Maybe we should have the winter air con fuel payment scheme instead.

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One way of reaching a market rate for public sector is to think in their shoes..."what alternatives do I have?".

Completely agree, though it is important to think about things like morale and industrial action (which impact productivity and quality of the service) and retaining experienced people to train and manage new staff.

Although the really crazy thing is, even harsh cuts to public sector wages will hardly touch the deficit. The government is expecting to spend £661bn this year, of which only about a quarter is the wage bill. The wage bill is roughly equal to the deficit, so essentially every person who works for the public sector is being paid on the national credit card. Can you imagine a business which operated like that? It's not going to be a question of "what shall we cut, and what can be kept as it is?" as people are expecting now, if Britain is to have any chance of avoiding bakruptcy it has to be "which things shall we cut, and which things shall we cut more?" Getting rid of child trust funds and the pensioner freebies like winter fuel and bus passes is just the start.

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I think that most Brits over 60 who are not in financial need find it a bit weird that they get bus passes and winter fuel payments. By all means keep them for the needy but it makes perfect sense to scrap them for those not in need.

+1

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I think they should keep the bus pass for pensioners over 75 who are prepared to give up their driving licence. :rolleyes:

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I think that most Brits over 60 who are not in financial need find it a bit weird that they get bus passes and winter fuel payments. By all means keep them for the needy but it makes perfect sense to scrap them for those not in need.

I agree with cutting the winter fuel payments. However, I think that perhaps the real virtue of the bus pass is a hidden subsidy to the operators, and it also reduces the number of drivers.

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I always figured the problem is that a lot of old, poor people are too proud to apply for means-tested assistance and so wouldn't claim the fuel allowance and would, as a result, die. I'm generally against anything that results in old people dying from the cold.

Add in the fact that means-testing adds a layer of expensive bureaucracy and I'm generally against it. Its not like you are giving rich people £200 for nothing, you're simply taking it off them during their working life via tax and then giving it back to them when they're old. I don't see the problem.

Increasing the age limit to 66 seems reasonable though, as I don't consider 60 to be anywhere near 'old'.

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Scrap it. Replace it with a one-off payment for insulation which only has to be done once. Otherwise the old dears will have the gas on all winter and melt the icecaps.

MPs might fiddle it though, "yes, sir, my aged grandmother does live with us now and we require the insulation installed free of charge in my 8-bedroomed house"

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I agree with cutting the winter fuel payments. However, I think that perhaps the real virtue of the bus pass is a hidden subsidy to the operators, and it also reduces the number of drivers.

There is also a big problem with free buses for the elderly/children/unemployed, which is that because bus companies know they will get paid by the government for these users, they don't give a stuff about attracting fare-paying working adults and will just charge whatever they can get away with. I have taken bus rides between towns in Wilts where it would have been cheaper for two or three of us to get a taxi rather than the bus.

I'm happy with helping out the elderly or poor families or the unemployed, but give them cash and let them figure out how to spend it rather than creating this weird parallel subsidised economy where costs don't matter because the government will always pay, and once you're in you'd be a fool to leave because your expenses will go up so much once you have to pay for things yourself.

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  • 259 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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