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Dragons' Den Exposes More Gov't Waste

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Just turned on the T.V and caught the last 15 minutes of Dragons' Den. The final pitch was made by a German guy that had been developing a game which consisted of a few road cones with lights stuffed up them. It turns out that he'd receieved £150K from the government in the form of grants to help develop his product. WTF?

This takes the complete p!ss. When people pay taxes they perhaps expect some services in return and might believe that they're helping the poor by supporting the welfare state etc. But when these sorts of sums are just dished out for nothing it highlights just how abusive the whole thing is. The gov't takes your money and then does exactly what it wants with it.

A £150k subsidy for illuminated road cones. Un-fecking-believable.

:angry: :angry:

Edited by Chef

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If you had tried to get a 150K grant for that I doubt you would have got it.

It is a bit like IT workers constantly being turned down for work in Government depts because they do not have security clearance and then you read about former Taliban doing such jobs.

Nuts country we have now. If you nick a motorbike don't wear a helmet and the Police won't chase you apparently...

Oh gee, I am turning into Alf Garnett.

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I read today that Deborah, Theo and slimey James Caan are to be booted off the show for next season. Theo seems ok to me, but Deborah comes across as rude and rather ignorant. As for Caan, well recent stories about him fleecing contestants can't help his image.....

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From government?

More likely from some quasi-autonomous government-sponsored scheme than forgemaster-like, from Mandelson himself. There are huge slush funds sloshing around designated inner city regeneration areas, for instance. Or the arts council.

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I read today that Deborah, Theo and slimey James Caan are to be booted off the show for next season. Theo seems ok to me, but Deborah comes across as rude and rather ignorant. As for Caan, well recent stories about him fleecing contestants can't help his image.....

Booted off or no longer in a position to make substantial investments, I wonder.

Richard Farleigh's alright but generally in the role of Dragon they seem to have developed the world's most efficient c0ck magnet.

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Just turned on the T.V and caught the last 15 minutes of Dragons' Den. The final pitch was made by a German guy that had been developing a game which consisted of a few road cones with lights stuffed up them. It turns out that he'd receieved £150K from the government in the form of grants to help develop his product. WTF?

This takes the complete p!ss. When people pay taxes they perhaps expect some services in return and might believe that they're helping the poor by supporting the welfare state etc. But when these sorts of sums are just dished out for nothing it highlights just how abusive the whole thing is. The gov't takes your money and then does exactly what it wants with it.

A £150k subsidy for illuminated road cones. Un-fecking-believable.

:angry: :angry:

Yes it is such a barmy business idea that 2 dragons invested 120k in it B) . The 150k of government money would have far better been invested in Ponzi rather than in a business that may turn out to be a good earner for UKPLC. Un-fecking-believable short sighted typical hpc rant.

Edited by campervanman

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Hi I'm Deborah. Let me tell you where I am. This is not a campsite that i'm buying from my parents and so is outside of my area of expertise. And so for that reason i'm afraid i'm going to have to rule myself out.

Hi i'm Duncan. Are you telling me that people are going to sit in their bedrooms on the internet playing bingo? That's ridiculous. I have a gym and used to own an ice cream van and I can tell you that nobody would play bingo at home. You're crazy. I'm out.

Hi I'm Peter. Actually this seems like it might be a pretty good idea. But you've insulted me by asking me to invest my own money and expecting to keep some of the company for yourself. I'm going to waffle on a bit before setting up a 'hilarious' pun during which i will declare myself out.

Tight, fame hungry, no money b*stards.

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Made me laugh that Duncan found it so offensive that someone should recieve a grant when he made his fortune out of care homes funded by the state. The sense of irony lost on him obviously.

Edited by worzel

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The 150k of government money would have far better been invested in Ponzi rather than in a business that may turn out to be a good earner for UKPLC.

Quite right. I also heard NuLabour were going to give a loan to a Sheffield steel company as well. Thank God Dave and George have now stopped all this nonsense with manufacturing or we'd be in danger of turning into a basket case like Germany.

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Hi I'm Deborah. Let me tell you where I am. This is not a campsite that i'm buying from my parents and so is outside of my area of expertise. And so for that reason i'm afraid i'm going to have to rule myself out.

Hi i'm Duncan. Are you telling me that people are going to sit in their bedrooms on the internet playing bingo? That's ridiculous. I have a gym and used to own an ice cream van and I can tell you that nobody would play bingo at home. You're crazy. I'm out.

Hi I'm Peter. Actually this seems like it might be a pretty good idea. But you've insulted me by asking me to invest my own money and expecting to keep some of the company for yourself. I'm going to waffle on a bit before setting up a 'hilarious' pun during which i will declare myself out.

Tight, fame hungry, no money b*stards.

Genius! :D

But for that reason I'm out.

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The look of disbelief on Duncan Ballantynes face with the £150k governent loan was a picture! He also said "we may as well all go off shore".

He has a point. £150k over 5 years is a nice salary of £30k a year. Nothing more than a bribe to keep someone off the unemployed list.

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Just turned on the T.V and caught the last 15 minutes of Dragons' Den. The final pitch was made by a German guy that had been developing a game which consisted of a few road cones with lights stuffed up them. It turns out that he'd receieved £150K from the government in the form of grants to help develop his product. WTF?

I have dealt with companies who have had these grants and sadly it didn't surprise me. Most likely the grant was from the EU (one of those delightful schemes where they give us some of our own money back and we are supposed to be grateful) which are available if your company is based in an area of high(ish) unemployment. I have seen them make some weird decisions in what to fund but it helps if your business is based around whatever the bureaucrats think is the latest hot business area which right now seems to be iPhone apps. Many of the "entrepreneurs" think up a new business plan every year which ticks the boxes and make a nice little living out of this. In addition there is an entire ecosystem of consultants who make a living out of advising these companies many of whom are based in the same business incubators (funded by the EU) as the companies.

Incidentally its an area ripe for fraud as I'm sure may of you have guessed.

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I have dealt with companies who have had these grants and sadly it didn't surprise me. Most likely the grant was from the EU (one of those delightful schemes where they give us some of our own money back and we are supposed to be grateful) which are available if your company is based in an area of high(ish) unemployment. I have seen them make some weird decisions in what to fund but it helps if your business is based around whatever the bureaucrats think is the latest hot business area which right now seems to be iPhone apps. Many of the "entrepreneurs" think up a new business plan every year which ticks the boxes and make a nice little living out of this. In addition there is an entire ecosystem of consultants who make a living out of advising these companies many of whom are based in the same business incubators (funded by the EU) as the companies.

Incidentally its an area ripe for fraud as I'm sure may of you have guessed.

Really? My experience as someone running a company in a hot business area (including iphone apps) is that there is no funding for anything if you are based in the South East and even trying to get R+D tax credits ends up you end up with just enough money to employ someone to fill in all the forms to apply for the funding.

Personally i'd rather my tax was spent on hairbrained schemes that produce anything at all - rather than used to bail out banks, landlords and homeowners in order to keep me priced out.

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Made me laugh that Duncan found it so offensive that someone should recieve a grant when he made his fortune out of care homes funded by the state. The sense of irony lost on him obviously.

I get the impression he extensively 'schmoozed' council officials to his own economic advantage.

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Made me laugh that Duncan found it so offensive that someone should recieve a grant when he made his fortune out of care homes funded by the state. The sense of irony lost on him obviously.

Yes brilliantly observed. :lol: It has given me an idea though

Edited by Sir John Steed

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Hi I'm Deborah. Let me tell you where I am. This is not a campsite that i'm buying from my parents and so is outside of my area of expertise. And so for that reason i'm afraid i'm going to have to rule myself out.

Hi i'm Duncan. Are you telling me that people are going to sit in their bedrooms on the internet playing bingo? That's ridiculous. I have a gym and used to own an ice cream van and I can tell you that nobody would play bingo at home. You're crazy. I'm out.

Hi I'm Peter. Actually this seems like it might be a pretty good idea. But you've insulted me by asking me to invest my own money and expecting to keep some of the company for yourself. I'm going to waffle on a bit before setting up a 'hilarious' pun during which i will declare myself out.

Tight, fame hungry, no money b*stards.

The last one I watched had two guys who developed a sumersible vehicle. They were pulled apart by Duncan who valued their busines at the end of 2 years as the sum of its profit to date, neglecting the value of the demonstration vehicle on hand or future profitability.

He was slowly pulled apart by the other dragons, who one by one opted out because the developers had not had the confidence to challenge this nonesense for themselves.

The only funding that day was when Deborah invested in some event organiser, who wanted to develop her 'cup cakes and dressing up' business by opening a shop in Soho.

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These grants are a good thing. The UK is devoid of innovation. We trumpet people and make make mini-celebrities out of people like Dyson, the wind up radio guy and a few others. Meanwhile, we produce f**k all else.

Britain is no longer "Great". We need innovation. Now that financial services are moving out of the UK, we need to support new enterprises. Without them, we have no future.

The attitudes on this thread don't surprise me at all, it's typical of the average British slave worker's understanding of new enterprise. Don't forget that most new business fail, this is normal. Don't expect anywhere near every penny to be spent wisely. So long as a few of these punts come in, that's all that matters. They will generate far more money in the long term than is "lost" or spent on grants in the short term. Don't be so bloody short sighted FFS.

Edited by rolf

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Really? My experience as someone running a company in a hot business area (including iphone apps) is that there is no funding for anything if you are based in the South East and even trying to get R+D tax credits ends up you end up with just enough money to employ someone to fill in all the forms to apply for the funding.

The problem is you are in the south east. Move to an ex mining area and try again :)

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These grants are a good thing. The UK is devoid of innovation. We trumpet people and make make mini-celebrities out of people like Dyson, the wind up radio guy and a few others. Meanwhile, we produce f**k all else.

Britain is no longer "Great". We need innovation. Now that financial services are moving out of the UK, we need to support new enterprises. Without them, we have no future.

The attitudes on this thread don't surprise me at all, it's typical of the average British slave worker's understanding of new enterprise. Don't forget that most new business fail, this is normal. Don't expect anywhere near every penny to be spent wisely. So long as a few of these punts come in, that's all that matters. They will generate far more money in the long term than is "lost" or spent on grants in the short term. Don't be so bloody short sighted FFS.

So we need more people like Hermann Hauser, prepared to invest good money in bright ideas. Clearly we have some, but nothing to compare with Silicon Valley.

Then the part governments find hard: when a business starts to do well, don't just complain of filthy capitalist fat-cats and tax+redtape them into emigrating.

Venture Capital tax breaks are a useful contribution, albeit within a limited field. Perhaps they should be much more widely encouraged: maybe try to open them to fifty-quid-a-month regular-savings style investment?

Edited by porca misèria

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These grants are a good thing. The UK is devoid of innovation. We trumpet people and make make mini-celebrities out of people like Dyson, the wind up radio guy and a few others. Meanwhile, we produce f**k all else.

Britain is no longer "Great". We need innovation. Now that financial services are moving out of the UK, we need to support new enterprises. Without them, we have no future.

The attitudes on this thread don't surprise me at all, it's typical of the average British slave worker's understanding of new enterprise. Don't forget that most new business fail, this is normal. Don't expect anywhere near every penny to be spent wisely. So long as a few of these punts come in, that's all that matters. They will generate far more money in the long term than is "lost" or spent on grants in the short term. Don't be so bloody short sighted FFS.

They are a good thing if they are spent on a decent upstart!

I don't regard 4 bleeding flashing road cones masquerading as a giant Simple Simon electronic toy from the 70's as the cutting edge of British innovation..... and given that he was bloody German FFS! £150k from us, the tax payer and still needed assistance from the Dragons!!!

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They are a good thing if they are spent on a decent upstart!

I don't regard 4 bleeding flashing road cones masquerading as a giant Simple Simon electronic toy from the 70's as the cutting edge of British innovation..... and given that he was bloody German FFS! £150k from us, the tax payer and still needed assistance from the Dragons!!!

If all you see is cones with a flashing light on top then you miss the point. I think it will be a great success. Just because it's simple doesn't mean it's cr@p.

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These grants are a good thing. The UK is devoid of innovation. We trumpet people and make make mini-celebrities out of people like Dyson, the wind up radio guy and a few others. Meanwhile, we produce f**k all else.

Britain is no longer "Great". We need innovation. Now that financial services are moving out of the UK, we need to support new enterprises. Without them, we have no future.

The attitudes on this thread don't surprise me at all, it's typical of the average British slave worker's understanding of new enterprise. Don't forget that most new business fail, this is normal. Don't expect anywhere near every penny to be spent wisely. So long as a few of these punts come in, that's all that matters. They will generate far more money in the long term than is "lost" or spent on grants in the short term. Don't be so bloody short sighted FFS.

I know we've just suffered 13 years of a morally bankrupt socialist government, but this sort of thing isn't ok; it's time to reset your moral compass. Yes we need innovation and a more productive economy, but handing over large sums of taxpayers' money so that multi millionaire celebrity investors can enrich themselves off the proceeds is hardly the right way to go about it.

Subsidising these people demonstrates the lack of confidence we have in them, they can't make it on their own so the nanny state has to give them a helping hand. If they were that good they'd be able to attract all the private backing they need, dishing out money like it's confetti just incentives sub-standard entrepreneurs, as well as preventing taxpayers from individually backing the projects that they really want to see get off the ground.

Edited by Chef

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Yes it is such a barmy business idea that 2 dragons invested 120k in it B) . The 150k of government money would have far better been invested in Ponzi rather than in a business that may turn out to be a good earner for UKPLC. Un-fecking-believable short sighted typical hpc rant.

If the government are that keen to support our budding entrepreneurs then maybe they could utilise one of the many banks they own. At least that way the taxpayer would be getting a return on their investment.

Edited by Chef

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