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21 Year Old Couple Show Bleak Future For Property

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Met a young couple I know yesterday, both 21. Both public school, both with A* a levels, Both studied maths at a top uni. One has a first, one has a 2.2.

Between them, they have over 35k in student debt. One is currently unemployed, the other is on below minimum wage as a McDonalds trainee (min wage doesn't apply to trainees).

Parents are respectable middle class. Bank of Mum & Dad is not impossible, but they both have multiple siblings also going through public school and uni so there's very little money around.

The thing that struck me, was that when I left school, these two would have got OKish jobs and by the time they were 23-24 would save 5k and be on the 'property ladder,' moving into a little one bedder.

But these two have 35k to pay off, followed by needing a 25k deposit. And this is two very posh kids, with the best education money can buy.

I expect they'll land half decent jobs eventually, but the thing that struck me was that there's absolutely zero prospect of these two being in a position to buy property until they're 30+ unless prices tumble.

The more I looked at these two, the more I realised that there's just going to be a massive hole in demand for starter homes for a very long, unless prices drop by absolutely huge amounts.

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What are young people going to do? Surely they can't carry on in crap jobs, wasting their education, living at home or paying excessive rents, for ten years? Will they leave? Will they kick off in the streets?

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I expect they'll land half decent jobs eventually, but the thing that struck me was that there's absolutely zero prospect of these two being in a position to buy property until they're 30+ unless prices tumble.

The more I looked at these two, the more I realised that there's just going to be a massive hole in demand for starter homes for a very long, unless prices drop by absolutely huge amounts.

I totally agree with this. There are many many people in this position. I am fairly certain that banks will start lending a little more before that couple reach 30. But I agree there are major difficulties ahead. Hence there will be limited demand for starter homes. Naturally this leads to the currently overstretched 30-somethings in FTB boxes being unable to move up. So demand for 3 bedroomed houses drops.

However, as current 60yo people start to look to "use their property as their pension" by downsizing, this will create a surplus of 4 and 5 bed houses. And may mop up some of the excess 2 and 3 bed houses...

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sorry but this sounds like cr*p - someone with a maths degree from Oxbridge, Imperial or UCL (which is what you directly implied they have) is not going to have problems getting work for long, and certainly not likely to end up working at McDonalds.

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sorry but this sounds like cr*p - someone with a maths degree from Oxbridge, Imperial or UCL (which is what you directly implied they have) is not going to have problems getting work for long, and certainly not likely to end up working at McDonalds.

More or less what I was about to post!

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Met a young couple I know yesterday, both 21. Both public school, both with A* a levels, Both studied maths at a top uni. One has a first, one has a 2.2.

.....................................

Well I'm afraid A* was not around three years ago.

Your story may or may not be true.

But there are young people of that calibre having trouble getting fixed up.

Not that anyone should take my anecdote as of any greater value.

Those that I know of are not braving the market and are staying on for higher degrees.

My initial reaction was like the comments below, but I know for a fact that less people like that are getting posts at top City Casinos.

</tuppence>

Anyway the only thing that really puzzles me is how young folk take all this cr@p. When do the demos and protests start?

Edited by cheval_à_bascule

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Met a young couple I know yesterday, both 21. Both public school, both with A* a levels, Both studied maths at a top uni. One has a first, one has a 2.2.

...

Parents are respectable middle class. Bank of Mum & Dad is not impossible, but they both have multiple siblings also going through public school and uni so there's very little money around.

Assuming public school fees of £4k per term, £12k per year equates to £91k if compounded at a modest 3% per annum over time at public secondary school. So if their parents hadn't sent the both of them to public secondary and given them the money instead, they would now have over £180k between them. If they also went to a public primary school or prep then it would be in the order of £300k. Not a bad house deposit right there, even after paying off student loans!

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I'm sure this is true, but its definitely an exceptional case - the majority of people I know with similar educational backgrounds to the people you describe, are now in grad schemes or entry level positions, although it did take some of them upto a year (which they spent temping).

There are still ridiculosly high grad salaries floating about:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/7879689/Graduate-top-15-starting-salaries.html?image=1

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2.2 is not what I'd expect if I went through a posh school.

That said, my GF is in a similar boat. She got a 2.1 in Law and then aced the LPC course but can't get a half decent job. The b est she can get is a part time role as a probation manager and when someone leaves who was working full time, could she apply for that job .... no because instead of having 1 full time job they changed it into 2 part time jobs.

Now that's fudging the jobless stats!

Edited by Pauly_Boy

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sorry but this sounds like cr*p - someone with a maths degree from Oxbridge, Imperial or UCL (which is what you directly implied they have) is not going to have problems getting work for long, and certainly not likely to end up working at McDonalds.

Did you actually bother to read what I wrote?

"I expect they'll land half decent jobs eventually, but the thing that struck me was that there's absolutely zero prospect of these two being in a position to buy property until they're 30+ unless prices tumble."

Their Uni was Warwick. I'm guessing it's GCSEs that were A*s and all As at A level.

In some respects the fact that the couple I used as an example are so bright and dead posh probably distracts from the thing that really struck me. These kids basically need to save 70k to pay off debs and get on the 'property ladder' at current prices.

Even when they get into a position where they've both got reasonable jobs and can save £1000 a month, it's still going to take 7 years to pay debts and raise a deposit. And that's assuming that there are no babies, no spells of unemployment, no bouts of illness, no sick parents to look after, no decison to say screw it and travel around the world for two years...

I left school with bad A levels at 18 and by the time I was 21 I could have bought a small flat as a single person. Now we're looking at a situation where a couple who are good graduates will be at least 30 before they're in the same position.

But you very rarely see property commentators talking about this.

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Did you actually bother to read what I wrote?

"I expect they'll land half decent jobs eventually, but the thing that struck me was that there's absolutely zero prospect of these two being in a position to buy property until they're 30+ unless prices tumble."

Their Uni was Warwick. I'm guessing it's GCSEs that were A*s and all As at A level.

In some respects the fact that the couple I used as an example are so bright and dead posh probably distracts from the thing that really struck me. These kids basically need to save 70k to pay off debs and get on the 'property ladder' at current prices.

Even when they get into a position where they've both got reasonable jobs and can save £1000 a month, it's still going to take 7 years to pay debts and raise a deposit. And that's assuming that there are no babies, no spells of unemployment, no bouts of illness, no sick parents to look after, no decison to say screw it and travel around the world for two years...

I left school with bad A levels at 18 and by the time I was 21 I could have bought a small flat as a single person. Now we're looking at a situation where a couple who are good graduates will be at least 30 before they're in the same position.

But you very rarely see property commentators talking about this.

sorry but publc school types that went to WarwicK University? these are hardly best of the best...

but as to your wider point - I was splitting hairs - and you are right

and by the time they are 30 they might have had the life kicked out of them

Edited by Si1

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sorry but publc school types that went to WarwicK University? these are hardly best of the best...

but as to your wider point - I was splitting hairs - and you are right

and by the time they are 30 they might have had the life kicked out of them

For mathematics it is exceptional, and the university as a whole always ranks 3rd to 8th in the UK depending on who is ranking.

Oxbridge has a very diffuse way of teaching math, and I wasn't particularly impressed by the standard of their core UG exams. There was nothing idiosyncratic (hence challenging) on the papers I saw, probably because tutorials in core subjects are taken by many tutors across the colleges. When I was applying for a Ph.D. in the UK in 1992 they were one of the 3 institutions I applied to.

The fact that someone with a first from Warwick in math is struggling to get a job is indicative of things being very unwell in the employment market. In many ways I am so glad I am not 21 and just graduating.

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sorry but this sounds like cr*p - someone with a maths degree from Oxbridge, Imperial or UCL (which is what you directly implied they have) is not going to have problems getting work for long, and certainly not likely to end up working at McDonalds.

I would tend to agree with this.

Granted when I was at one of the above institutions we did have weirdo mathematicians who would get a first and then couldn't get a job, but they weren't the sort to have girlfriends as is the case above. You do get some extremely bright (and I mean off the scale) people who are essentially unemployable due to a complete lack of social skills, presentation and personal hygiene/grooming.

That said these are the sort of people who can be useful for things like code breaking when there is a war on.

Edited by Mikhail Liebenstein

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I would tend to agree with this.

Granted when I was at one of the above institutions we did have weirdo mathematicians who would get a first and then couldn't get a job, but they weren't the sort to have girlfriends as is the case above. You do get some extremely bright (and I mean off the scale) people who are essentially unemployable due to a complete lack of social skills, presentation and personal hygiene/grooming.

That said these are the sort of people who can be useful for things like code breaking when there is a war on. 

War!!!

What is it good for?

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sorry but publc school types that went to WarwicK University? these are hardly best of the best..

Warwick is considered to be one of the best universities in the UK. I'd imagine it is comfortably within the top 100 in the world. Their aim is to match Oxbridge on the world stage, and though ambitious, it is not an unfeasible idea.

Edited by FaFa!

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For mathematics it is exceptional, and the university as a whole always ranks 3rd to 8th in the UK depending on who is ranking.

not in employers' rankings or research profile it ain't

by Guardian and Times trendy nice-university-for-Jessica rankings it does quite well however

Edited by Si1

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Warwick is considered to be one of the best universities in the UK. I'd imagine it is comfortably within the top 100 in the world. Their aim is to match Oxbridge on the world stage, and though ambitious, it is not an unfeasible idea.

as is the aim of many top 20 UK universities - so what? they aren't a 'top' university. end of.

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It's not total doom and gloom. I'm 21, been working full time since 17, public school, worked my way up through an apprenticeship with zero debt, on an acceptable first years starting salary now and have managed to save a good 17k away through overtime and night jobs. Parents have agreed that now my dad has retired, they will give me some of his pension lump some towards deposit/furnishings when I buy (Currently looking), so I'm incredibly lucky. There isn't really any other way I'm going to get myself started. I'm definitly in the tiny minority though compared to most people my age.

Edited by dr89

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It's not total doom and gloom. I'm 21, been working full time since 17, public school, worked my way up through an apprenticeship with zero debt, on an acceptable first years starting salary now and have managed to save a good 17k away. Parents have agreed that now my dad has retired, they will give me some of his pension lump some towards deposit/furnishings when I buy (Currently looking), so I'm incredibly lucky. I'm definitly in the tiny minority though compared to most people my age.

Is accepting some of your dad's pension lump sum wise (he might need it in the future)?

Can you not try to stand on your own two feet?

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Is accepting some of your dad's pension lump sum wise (he might need it in the future)?

Can you not try to stand on your own two feet?

He has retired, but taken on another job (He is only 54) and my mum is still working. By some of his lump some he was talking about in the region of 3-5k depending on circumstances. I didn't ask for the money but I'm not going to turn it down, I'm fairly certain some people get much much more from their parents.

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as is the aim of many top 20 UK universities - so what? they aren't a 'top' university. end of.

World wide they tend to rank about 60th, which is pretty darn good for a 60s uni.

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as is the aim of many top 20 UK universities - so what? they aren't a 'top' university. end of.

We are talking about the math department here. It has, by all accounts, excellent teaching and (I'm not sure whether this is still the case, though it certainly was for a long time) the only math department other than Oxbridge that has 1 on 2 tutorials for undergrads. That employers are so ignorant as not to know this is hardly relevant. There are some exceptional universities for undergraduates that are not huge research factories. Brown in the US, for instance, and some of the smaller liberal arts colleges who you never hear about, but who always seem to place a few Rhodes and Marshall scholars each year.

Warwick is certainly a place where a serious math undergrad might chose to go.

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We are talking about the math department here. It has, by all accounts, excellent teaching and (I'm not sure whether this is still the case, though it certainly was for a long time) the only math department other than Oxbridge that has 1 on 2 tutorials for undergrads. That employers are so ignorant as not to know this is hardly relevant. There are some exceptional universities for undergraduates that are not huge research factories. Brown in the US, for instance, and some of the smaller liberal arts colleges who you never hear about, but who always seem to place a few Rhodes and Marshall scholars each year.

Warwick is certainly a place where a serious math undergrad might chose to go.

congratulations, it has a world class maths department, as do other non-top unis like Bristol and Manchester (still some way short of Oxbridge for sheer research talent)

so what? it isn't a 'top' university. end of. again.

That employers are so ignorant as not to know this is hardly relevant.

oh my god you're scaring me now - employers go on the hands-on ability of their employees, they check this by sitting with them and workign with them in the day-job, that reflection on Warwick says more about the privately coached public school intake of Warwick than anything else, coached to exam sucess, woo hoo what a challenge - with public school backgrounds, not making it to Oxbridge, simply and utterly, marks them out as not that good.

Edited by Si1

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World wide they tend to rank about 60th, which is pretty darn good for a 60s uni.

yes. Manchester Bristol Edinburgh exchange places above this regularly. None of them are 'top' universities. Their graduates are not as good for the most part as Oxbridge graduates. I say this as a Manchester graduate. And Leeds, if you add my MSc in there too.

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  • 144 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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