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nicklaus

Periodic Tenancy Notice Period

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I apologise for another thread on this, I'm just getting some conflicting information.

We are on a statutory periodic tenancy and want to give notice.

The commencement date in our tenancy agreement is listed as 13th December (the date we moved in), but the first day of the rental period is defined as being on the 9th day of each calendar month.

I've just spoken to the Shelter helpline who advised me that the commencement date is the important one, so we can give notice today to move out on the 12th September.

However, my understanding is that the rental period date is the key date. So now we can't leave until 8th October.

My thinking is further clouded by the fact that the landlord issued a S21 notice at the start of the tenancy which asked us to leave on the 12th of the month. So maybe he is confused as well.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Edited by nicklaus

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Are you sure that the rental period is really from the 9th? Most contracts I've had have asked for the standing order for the rent to be set up for a few days before the rent is due because it takes a couple of days for it to clear so even though your standing order is on the 9th it's still covering the period from the 13th to the 12th. This means you can serve notice to move out on the 12th of next month. Since the landlord has already issued a section 21 I'm not sure if you really need to serve notice but it would be advisable to do so anyway.

Have you talked to your landlord? He's not expecting you to be out by Thursday is he? Not that he can make you move out - he'd have to go to court to get a repossession order which would take longer than you plan to stay for. It's still best to talk to him if you haven't already.

Thanks mmm...beer. The exact wording in the tenancy agreement is -

Commencement Date 13 August 2008

Rental Period Calendar Month

Rent £XXX for each Rental Period payable in advance on or before the first day of each such Rental Period, the first day of each Rental Period being the 9th day of each calendar month.

So we've been on a periodic tenancy for a while after the initial 6 month contract.

We've spoken to the landlord about references for our new place so he knows we're on our way out. Only problem is he has stated several times that he thinks the notice period is 2 months from either party. So I just want to be sure of my footing before I tell him we're only giving 1 month.

As you said, our rental payment covers the period from 13th to the 12th of the following month. So if we had to give notice according to the defined rental period above, we'd move out on the 8th. That leaves 3 days that we've paid for, but can't occupy the property. That can't be right.

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Only problem is he has stated several times that he thinks the notice period is 2 months from either party

Can't help on the dates part, but as for the notice period: during the Assured Shorthold Tenancy (your first 6 months), there was probably a clause saying "2 months notice from either side". After the 6 months, you automatically lapsed on to a Statutory Periodic Tenancy, and the statutory notice for renting is 1 month from the tennant and 2 months from the landlord.

Now, all the terms and conditions of the original AST will carry over to your SPT ... however (and this is my understanding now, just to be clear!), the the statutory notice period prevails over anything that was stipulated in the AST. Thus, it's 1 months notice from you.

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Can't help on the dates part, but as for the notice period: during the Assured Shorthold Tenancy (your first 6 months), there was probably a clause saying "2 months notice from either side". After the 6 months, you automatically lapsed on to a Statutory Periodic Tenancy, and the statutory notice for renting is 1 month from the tennant and 2 months from the landlord.

Now, all the terms and conditions of the original AST will carry over to your SPT ... however (and this is my understanding now, just to be clear!), the the statutory notice period prevails over anything that was stipulated in the AST. Thus, it's 1 months notice from you.

Yes that was my understanding too. He might not be very impressed when we only serve one month's notice so I wanted to be absolutely sure on the dates to make sure it's valid.

Off home soon and will serve him the notice tonight so fingers crossed it's all ok.

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We recently served our 1 months notice. The landlord had died and a solicitor was handling the estate. They replied to say that we should give 2 months as per our contract but that the beneficiaries had accepted the 1 month anyway.

We replied to point out that we need only give one month because the AST had lapsed to a SPT. Since everyone was agreeing one the 1 month anyway, we never heard back as to whether we were technically correct or technically wrong. I think we're correct ;)

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Im a newbie to this forum but i found it because the person that started this thread is going through the same thing as me!!

I've been in my flat for 3 years I moved in on 16th June 2007 and my contract turned into a statutory periodic tenancy ont eh 16th June 2008. So what I always thought was giving one months notice on the any date (I did so on the 5th of August 2010) and I can get out a month later, I was so wrong... My landlord said that due to my rent being deducted on the 1st of every month my tenancy won't end until the 30th September!

Anyway to cut a long story short, I called the citizens advice bureau and they said the landlord is WRONG as there are new laws that came out as of February 2007 and they sent me an info pack which included the following paragraph. However, it still doesnt make sense to me, can I leave on the 5th of September or do I have to stay until the 30th?

________________

Periodic tenancies

126

If the tenancy is a contractual periodic tenancy and the agreement does not specify how much notice the tenant must give, the notice to quit the tenant must give the landlord should:-

· be in writing; and

· be for at least 28 days (or, if the tenancy is one in which the rent is paid at longer intervals than this, for example, every three months, the notice should be for that period); and

· expire on the last day or the first day of a complete period of the tenancy, for example, if the first day of a period of a weekly tenancy is a Friday, the notice to quit must expire on a Thursday or a Friday. If a monthly tenancy began on the 20th of the month, the notice to quit must expire on the 19th or 20th of the month. Although the first day of a period of the tenancy may be the same day as the rent is paid, this is not always the case, for example, a weekly tenancy may have started on a Thursday, but the rent day be agreed as the Monday.

127

If the tenancy is a statutory periodic tenancy, any term in the fixed term agreement relating to ending the tenancy no longer has effect, and the tenant should submit a notice to quit as described in the previous paragraph.

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ro88, I'm not familiar with any new laws - could you post the names of the acts that the CAB has referred to, and also the name of the info pack that you've quoted from too. This just helps everbody pick up the same info. I'm not familiar simply because I haven't heard ... not trying to suggest that you're wrong at all.;)

So as to when your last day is ... my understanding is that when you serve notice it will take effect at the next period of tenancy and so you are effectively given 1 months notice from that point, irrespective of when you posted your letter. Since your rental started on the 16th of the month, I would assume that your notice takes effect on the 16th following it being sent, meaning that you will finish paying rent on the following 15th.

However, the text in section 126 (of your post) seems a bit vague regarding which prevails when considering a notice period: the day of the month on which a period of tenancy commences or the day of the month when rent is paid.

This is my assumtion here: the period of tenancy remains as commencing on the 16th of each month and so you will no longer be liable for rent come the 15th. I'm talking here September because the notice you sent on 5th August will take effect on 16th August, counting 1 month from then. When the rent is paid is an administrative convenience; it is being paid with respect to a period of tenancy. But please note that this is my assumption - I'm no expert here!!

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ro88, I'm not familiar with any new laws - could you post the names of the acts that the CAB has referred to, and also the name of the info pack that you've quoted from too. This just helps everbody pick up the same info. I'm not familiar simply because I haven't heard ... not trying to suggest that you're wrong at all.;)

So as to when your last day is ... my understanding is that when you serve notice it will take effect at the next period of tenancy and so you are effectively given 1 months notice from that point, irrespective of when you posted your letter. Since your rental started on the 16th of the month, I would assume that your notice takes effect on the 16th following it being sent, meaning that you will finish paying rent on the following 15th.

However, the text in section 126 (of your post) seems a bit vague regarding which prevails when considering a notice period: the day of the month on which a period of tenancy commences or the day of the month when rent is paid.

This is my assumtion here: the period of tenancy remains as commencing on the 16th of each month and so you will no longer be liable for rent come the 15th. I'm talking here September because the notice you sent on 5th August will take effect on 16th August, counting 1 month from then. When the rent is paid is an administrative convenience; it is being paid with respect to a period of tenancy. But please note that this is my assumption - I'm no expert here!!

It isnt very clear I know, Its a document the CAB sent to me today I can't find it online, its called "11.5.6.4 Assured Shorhold Tenancies" from the "Citizens Advice Bureau- Information in England" I can email you the file if you like (tried uploading here but it doesnt work). The CAB also asked me to contact Threshold regarding the Housing Laws in the UK and I've made an appointment to see them, hopefully they can help with this or I will be losing a whole months rent! Love this forum hope it works out for others.

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So I handed in my notice last night. The good news is that the landlord was fine about it and all appears to be ok for us to move out on the 12th.

In response to ro88, I have to agree with bug09, I'm obviously no expert either though.

If your fixed term expired on the 15th June 2008, then your statutory periodic tenancy began on the 16th June 2008.

So your tenancy period runs from the 16th of the month until the 15th of the following month. If you give notice today then my understanding is that you should say you are terminating your tenancy on 15th September. And you have to give at least one calendar month's notice, so if you miss the 15th August to give notice, you can't then move until the 15th October.

The date that you pay the rent isn't important, your tenancy period runs from the 16th to the 15th.

That's my understanding anyway, but I'm a complete amateur.

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So I handed in my notice last night. The good news is that the landlord was fine about it and all appears to be ok for us to move out on the 12th.

In response to ro88, I have to agree with bug09, I'm obviously no expert either though.

If your fixed term expired on the 15th June 2008, then your statutory periodic tenancy began on the 16th June 2008.

So your tenancy period runs from the 16th of the month until the 15th of the following month. If you give notice today then my understanding is that you should say you are terminating your tenancy on 15th September. And you have to give at least one calendar month's notice, so if you miss the 15th August to give notice, you can't then move until the 15th October.

The date that you pay the rent isn't important, your tenancy period runs from the 16th to the 15th.

That's my understanding anyway, but I'm a complete amateur.

Thanks mate I hope you're right, the landlord wants me to stay until the 30th- Im sure it should be the 16th/15th! I am going to get the law straight and send them a nasty email showing them that us tenants aren't invalids and they can't abuse us like this! Good luck with your move, I know how stressful this all can be!

Ro

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and send them a nasty email showing them that us tenants aren't invalids and they can't abuse us like this

You could just send them a letter by Recorded Delivery stating the full amount of your deposit and any rent paid in advance, and stipulating that you want this returned within 14 days of receipt otherwise you will take them to the small claims court.

Up to you.

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When you are on a statutory periodic tenancy (the position may be different if it is a contractual periodic tenancy) a tenant's notice to quit must expire at the end of a tenancy period, which means the last or first day of a tenancy period. Though the two may coincide, a tenancy period is not the same thing as a rent period. A statutory periodic tenancy must of necessity start on the day following the last day of the fixed term. It is accordingly the date the fixed term ends that determines everything and not the day on which rent is payable.

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When you are on a statutory periodic tenancy (the position may be different if it is a contractual periodic tenancy) a tenant's notice to quit must expire at the end of a tenancy period, which means the last or first day of a tenancy period. Though the two may coincide, a tenancy period is not the same thing as a rent period. A statutory periodic tenancy must of necessity start on the day following the last day of the fixed term. It is accordingly the date the fixed term ends that determines everything and not the day on which rent is payable.

for once i completely agree with you ;) absolutely correct

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