The Death Of The Japanese Motorcycle Industry

[jackalope]

Forget all this techno crap and buy a proper machine... A Brand New Norton Commando!

http://www.norvilmotorcycle.co.uk/

I rest my case.

13 grand for a machine that was obsolete in 1975. It's just overpriced tat marketed by shagging the lifeless corpse of an antiquated brand. Basically, a far less successful, British version of the HD business model. No ta.

[Dubai]

From a historical perspective 2010 will be a very significant year in the motorcycle industry. Once in a generation we have a CB750 moment; a bike that completely rewrites the rules and advances the genre to a new level. Other examples of a CB750 moment were the GPz900R (1984), CBR900RR (1992) and R1 (1998). 2010's CB750 moment was interesting in that the bike that came along and broke the paradigm was, for the first time in 41 years, not Japanese: the BMW S1000RR.

In terms of both performance and engineering the BMW has rendered all other 1,000cc sports bikes technologically irrelevant and quite demonstrably the products of old thinking. The Japanese bike industry is mired in conservative introspection, incremental development and risk averse products. The technological lead has now been reclaimed by Europe. Can the Japanese bike industry reassert its technical dominance or is it now in a sclerotic death spiral? I say they're done.

I'm a Ducati fan (last bike a 900SS) and crave a 748 or the 999. My wife won't let me.....  ..... but I have explained the safety features of this beemer.... and there's a glimmer of hope! It looks pretty sharp, too.

[jackalope]

I'm a Ducati fan (last bike a 900SS) and crave a 748 or the 999. My wife won't let me.....  ..... but I have explained the safety features of this beemer.... and there's a glimmer of hope! It looks pretty sharp, too.

The 999 is the last of the modern Ducatis I like. A cast iron future classic due to its Terblanche styling and the fact it was only in production for 4 years. The 999R with the massively over square engine is the one to have. Do it. Be a man about it and tell the Mrs she is f***ing binned if she doesn't like it.

[Dubai]

The 999 is the last of the modern Ducatis I like. A cast iron future classic due to its Terblanche styling and the fact it was only in production for 4 years. The 999R with the massively over square engine is the one to have. Do it. Be a man about it and tell the Mrs she is f***ing binned if she doesn't like it.

Ooh... although I have chucked a Duke around some pretty sharp bends at reasonably high speeds, I'm not sure I have the gonads to tell the Mrs. what you have suggested!

[Dubai]

It's beautiful, isn't it?

[jackalope]

It's beautiful, isn't it?

Yep. So much more brave and progressive than the 1098/1198 that succeeded it.

[Gone baby gone]

13 grand for a machine that was obsolete in 1975. It's just overpriced tat marketed by shagging the lifeless corpse of an antiquated brand. Basically, a far less successful, British version of the HD business model. No ta.

Damn, you think I should cancel my order then!?

[Gone baby gone]

Yep. So much more brave and progressive than the 1098/1198 that succeeded it.

And much more successful on the track. The 999 had a higher start:win ratio that any bike that preceded or succeeded it (so far...)

Of course the WSB 999s only had about 3 components in common with the 999R, but hey, who's counting?

[ken_ichikawa]

And much more successful on the track. The 999 had a higher start:win ratio that any bike that preceded or succeeded it (so far...)

Of course the WSB 999s only had about 3 components in common with the 999R, but hey, who's counting?

Seriously they should make a race series where bikes simply come out of the box with no mods at all other than tyres. It'd be interesting to see the gaps in the times.

It is still the rider though, Ron Haslam did an experiment years ago he used a CBR125 vs the CBR600RR (the rubbish one with no mid range around 2004/5) absolutly raping the CBR125 he was only <4 seconds off the CBR600RR.

[Gone baby gone]

Seriously they should make a race series where bikes simply come out of the box with no mods at all other than tyres. It'd be interesting to see the gaps in the times.

They should, and I suppose that was the original intention behind series like Superstock. There can't be many people left who think that the bikes being raced in WSB bear much relation to what they can buy from a Honda, Ducati, etc dealer. In some ways, it makes bike (and car) racing at that level the ultimate team sport, now the contribution from the guys tuning the engine, choosing which tyres to use and programming the electronics can make the difference between getting on the podium and finishing in 8th or 9th.

It is still the rider though, Ron Haslam did an experiment years ago he used a CBR125 vs the CBR600RR (the rubbish one with no mid range around 2004/5) absolutly raping the CBR125 he was only <4 seconds off the CBR600RR.

It is a lot about the rider, and it's true there isn't as big a gap between different machines as you would imagine, although some tracks favour smaller machines. The 500cc class in the late 80s early 90s was dominated by a handful of riders (Rainey, Doohan, Schwantz, etc), because they were the only ones with the skill to ride the bikes quickly before the advent of traction control, etc.

[jackalope]

The 500cc class in the late 80s early 90s was dominated by a handful of riders (Rainey, Doohan, Schwantz, etc), because they were the only ones with the skill to ride the bikes quickly before the advent of traction control, etc.

I'm not sure that stacks up. There's only been 3 races in the last 4 seasons that weren't won by any of the fab four (Rossi, Stoner, Pedrosa, Lorenzo). Those four dominate the sport to just as great an extent as the top riders of the Rainey,Schwantz, Gardner,Lawson era. Doohan's reign of terror didn't start until 1994.

[Gone baby gone]

I'm not sure that stacks up. There's only been 3 races in the last 4 seasons that weren't won by any of the fab four (Rossi, Stoner, Pedrosa, Lorenzo). Those four dominate the sport to just as great an extent as the top riders of the Rainey,Schwantz, Gardner,Lawson era. Doohan's reign of terror didn't start until 1994.

It could just be my fading memory, but I recall more crashes in that period, and the podium constantly having the same familiar faces on it. I don't know how true it is, but I remember one of the commentators talking about how more riders are "on the pace" in the present day vs the 500cc bikes, i.e. the gap between the fastest and slowest lap was longer then and is shorter now. Not sure how true that is, perhaps it's just perception. I would like to see Doohan, Rainey or Spencer in their prime compete against Rossi or Stoner.

Rossi is exceptional, so you have to take him out of the equation, in fact the Wikipedia page for Grand Prix riders titles is quite an eye-opener regarding individual talent - some names repeat quite a bit, in every generation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_500cc/MotoGP_Motorcycle_World_Champions

[Guest Noodle]