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Being Judgemental Of Others

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Guest X-QUORK

I'd like to open this one up for debate:

Is it necessary to be above criticism in order to place judgement on others, or is this an unrealistic proposition?

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I'd like to open this one up for debate:

Is it necessary to be above criticism in order to place judgement on others, or is this an unrealistic proposition?

Of course it is unrealistic ! Nobody is perfect. However that doesn't mean people can't point out things in other people they don't like/agree with. If that was the case nobody would say anything to anyone else ever.

Criticism is good. I love it. It makes me think about things.

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I'd like to open this one up for debate:

Is it necessary to be above criticism in order to place judgement on others, or is this an unrealistic proposition?

Absolutely not, indeed it goes against any good sense.

When I used to do site work acting as the client's engineer I often encountered situations where site conditions made it all but impossible to execute the specification. That did not stop me insisting that the specification be adhered to. Of course, what evolved was a compromise / spec alteration, but a compromise of a much better standard than that which would have occured had it not been left to the guys actually charged with doing the grunt work.

The same can be said of any activity, because most activities invlve applying ideals to an imperfect world.. Merely accepting th eimperfect nature of things results in choas, slipping standards and zero progress. Insisting on the unattainable results in new processes, new thinking and new inventions, all of which result in a world where many more can survive and prosper (or the same number can have it easier, choose your poison).

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Monday, August 9, 2010 Previous editions

Ireland:Bright with sunny intervals and scattered showers Bright with sunny intervals and scattere »

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Serious health threats plague ‘ghost estates’

By Brian Hutton

Monday, August 09, 2010

A SIZEABLE number of housing estates "thrown up" by developers in recent years are plagued by serious health threats, including open sewers and water contamination, a Government survey said.

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The preliminary findings of a national study of so-called ghost estates are being pored over by officials charged with clearing up the mess left by boom-time developers. While councils will receive power to seize control of the worst unfinished developments, the National Assets Management Agency (NAMA) will take over the lion’s share.

Official inspectors are visiting the sites and drawing up a detailed map of every housing estate granted planning permission in the last five years. Planning Minister Ciaran Cuffe has ordered a full report for next month, but a pilot study in Laois that has just landed on his desk already suggests the scale of the fiasco. It found:

* A fifth of newly-completed homes are without adequate water, sewerage or road access.

* There are public health and safety fears at 25% of sites surveyed, including open sewers, open manholes, water contamination and unsecured sites.

* In all, 30% of housing developments recently completed lie vacant.

* Construction has not started in four out of ten houses granted planning permission.

Meanwhile, the Department of Environment expects the findings will be echoed in the countrywide survey, which will include a county-by-county breakdown, expected in September.

It was initially believed developer bonds or securities would finance an overhaul of half-finished estates.

The money is supposed to be lodged with local authorities to guarantee housing estates will be properly completed, but the survey has revealed a "maverick culture" in which speculators simply ignored pre-conditions and pressed ahead with their plans.

While a lot of bonds were not paid at all, in other cases, they were so miniscule that they are now deemed irrelevant given the scale of the clean-up operation.

"A lot of developers didn’t even pay bonds," said one department official. "Even in some cases where there were conditions to pay bonds, a lot of them just went ahead and started developing without discharging any of the pre-commencement conditions."

The preliminary findings also suggest the lion’s share of unfinished developments will eventually be taken over by NAMA.

The department believes planning permission will elapse on many of the estimated 620 ghost estates in the coming years.

The state’s toxic asset agency will then have to decide whether to seek extensions if they are to be completed. In such circumstances, the new planning act will allow local authorities to set new bonds.

This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Monday, August 09, 2010

Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/serious-health-threats-plague-ghost-estates-127347.html#ixzz0w6GGKTx3

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I'd like to open this one up for debate:

Is it necessary to be above criticism in order to place judgement on others, or is this an unrealistic proposition?

How could anyone be above criticism?

AFAIK there is no modern equivalent to the 10 commandments which is accepted by everyone, quite the contrary in fact.

Being a paedophile is probably the only thing a person can do that will attract universal condemnation.

Even murderers have their fans, look at the recent kerfuffle with Raoul Moat.

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I'd like to open this one up for debate:

Is it necessary to be above criticism in order to place judgement on others, or is this an unrealistic proposition?

Judgement, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

It is perfectly normal for someone guilty of something to think less of, or even act against, someone else for similar, greater or even lesser moral 'crimes'.

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Guest Noodle

Absolutely not, indeed it goes against any good sense.

When I used to do site work acting as the client's engineer I often encountered situations where site conditions made it all but impossible to execute the specification. That did not stop me insisting that the specification be adhered to. Of course, what evolved was a compromise / spec alteration, but a compromise of a much better standard than that which would have occured had it not been left to the guys actually charged with doing the grunt work.

The same can be said of any activity, because most activities invlve applying ideals to an imperfect world.. Merely accepting th eimperfect nature of things results in choas, slipping standards and zero progress. Insisting on the unattainable results in new processes, new thinking and new inventions, all of which result in a world where many more can survive and prosper (or the same number can have it easier, choose your poison).

:angry: An R.E.

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Hypocracy is one of those character traits I find least attractive.

Sure not everyone is perfect, but if you're going to make comments on some issue at least make sure your own house is in order first.

There are many things that I have that I'm not good at/don't have my own house in order on. Therefore I wouldn't comment on them. After all, if I can't sort my own stuff out how qualified am I to offer opinions on other peoples problems ?

If you're going to take polarised viewpoints on many issues, sooner or later you're going to appear hypocritical. Unless you have a memory like an elephant and the logic of Dr. Spock.

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Guest X-QUORK

Hypocracy is one of those character traits I find least attractive.

Sure not everyone is perfect, but if you're going to make comments on some issue at least make sure your own house is in order first.

There are many things that I have that I'm not good at/don't have my own house in order on. Therefore I wouldn't comment on them. After all, if I can't sort my own stuff out how qualified am I to offer opinions on other peoples problems ?

If you're going to take polarised viewpoints on many issues, sooner or later you're going to appear hypocritical. Unless you have a memory like an elephant and the logic of Dr. Spock.

+1

I think it's not unreasonable to expect someone to be pretty clean in the area they choose to criticise others on. The big one on HPC is personal health - we're almost constantly bombarded with holier than thou comments from a number of posters who have already admitted to having their own personal health failings. This is nothing more than hypocrisy.

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Nobody is whiter than white, therefore the above criticism is folly.

However I would state that for criticism to be effective you must be in a position to criticise.

For instance MANY people in China are incredibly racist. They consider black people, Indians and SEA people not to be barely human.

Shaun my PhD wielding friend in Beijing is subject to such taunts and abuse because he is black. Yet the ones shouting the abuse are the knuckle dragging uneducated types.

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+1

I think it's not unreasonable to expect someone to be pretty clean in the area they choose to criticise others on. The big one on HPC is personal health - we're almost constantly bombarded with holier than thou comments from a number of posters who have already admitted to having their own personal health failings. This is nothing more than hypocrisy.

On here that is just stupidity.

If you are going to criticise someone, someone who doesn't know who you are, what you do, what you have done .... then simply fein superiority ;) I do!

Seriously though, I took your question to mean 'is it okay to judge others even though you might be guilty of the same 'sin'' - I think it is.

I agree with you though that it becomes ballbag splittingly annoying if people then decide to lecture/preach/criticise others.

SO my answer to the OP is ... 'yes and no' ;)

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Guest X-QUORK

'is it okay to judge others even though you might be guilty of the same 'sin'' - I think it is.

You're comfortable with being a hypocrite then?

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You're comfortable with being a hypocrite then?

Most people are! :blink:

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Guest X-QUORK

Most people are! :blink:

Not me, I try and avoid it...not always successfully, but at least I try!

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Guest Noodle

Not me, I try and avoid it...not always successfully, but at least I try!

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Fat boy!!! ;)

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Guest X-QUORK

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Fat boy!!! ;)

Your smileys would be deserved if I'd been talking about cake.

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Guest Noodle

Your smileys would be deserved if I'd been talking about cake.

Shut up about cake. Just shut up about it. I don't want to hear it.

All I can have now is vegetable, chicken and brown rice. It's getting dull, although I feel a bit better of late.

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The saying that springs to mind is 'people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones' .

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You're comfortable with being a hypocrite then?

I don't think it is a case of being comfortable. I don't think it id possible to control one's thoughts to that extent.

For example, I know I am guilty of being greedy. However, I can't stop myself recognising it as an unpleasant trait in others and I judge them for it.

If I had a daughter I wouldn't want her to get involved with someone as perverted as me. Thus I (would) judge potential partners despite me being guilty myself.

LIke I said, though, I think judging someone and expecting someone to conform to standards you are not prepared to meet yourself are two different things. Both hypocritical, yes, but one seems to be perfectly rational and reasonable, the other not so much.

So I guess, really, I am comfortable being a hypocrite. I definitely acknowledge I am one.

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Guest theboltonfury

I'd like to open this one up for debate:

Is it necessary to be above criticism in order to place judgement on others, or is this an unrealistic proposition?

Dude, are you still smarting over the fat jibes of earlier?

Notice, I didn't contribute.

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Guest Noodle

Dude, are you still smarting over the fat jibes of earlier?

Notice, I didn't contribute.

:lol:

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Dude, are you still smarting over the fat jibes of earlier?

Notice, I didn't contribute.

Is that beacuse you have put on a bit of weight? :huh:

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I would rather be a hypocrite than someone who cannot accept criticism.

I am not even sure that hypocrite is the correct word - if you acknowledge something at the same time. Don't have to definition to hand so maybe not.

Also personal health is an extremely wide vague area. Could cover anything from how much vitamins you consume, to exercise, to drink, to smoking, to drug taking, to air pollution, to sexual health - to pretty much anything we do with our bodies.

Are we really saying that someone who has unprotected sex should not be allowed to criticise someone who does too little exercise. blink.gif

That only those people who lead the perfect lives, exercise all the time, never drink, never smoke, eat everything in the perfect quantity - are we really saying only these people should be allowed to criticise others ?!

Bonkers. Absoluley bonkers. If someone is telling the truth then they are telling the truth. Whether they are a hypocrite or not does not impact that fact.

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When you receive criticism you can choose to either take it on board and improve yourself in some way, or ignore it - maybe turning it around and saying "You're not so good yourself". There may well be an objective truth in the criticism, independent of who is delivering the message. So yes, those with faults can legitimately point out someone else's flaws. Why not?

If you come across someone who admits no fault or flaw ever, or someone who makes a general attack on a group of people hoping to get a rise (e.g. what about those sh1t parents, eh?), then remember you are probably on the anonymous internets, not dealing with someone face to face as civil humans are accustomed (where open, direct criticism is highly unusual). Another thing to remember, on forums like this, is that it's (normally) not about you - only you can choose to make it so.

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  • 140 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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