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VeryMeanReversion

Wonders Of Land Registry

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Looked at a house last week and put a generous offer on the table but hadn't heard anything, thought it a bit odd. The house was unusually cheap for the local market, more than 10% below 2003 nominal values. The agent was doing their bit but the vendor seemed slower than normal.

So I dig out the land registery title and plans and find the following:

1. "BANKRUPTCY NOTICE" - from the mortgage company

2. "NOTE: The proprietor of this charge is obliged to make further

advances in accordance with the mortgage terms and conditions."

3. A charge from a 2nd charge lender, the sort that takes customers the banks wont touch (which is saying something in 2003)

4. County Court Judgement

5. Interim Charging Order

5. Another interim charging order

So it looks to me that they have been in trouble for seven years and have been borrowing against equity ever since, then finally defaulting all over the place. I know what the buyers approximate income is and did wonder how they could afford the house. The answer is.... they couldn't and the charges register details their descent into debt.

I guess the bank is finally getting heavy after three years. About bl00ming time.

This explains the vendors reluctance to sell, even after a good offer from a proceedable buyer. However, I get the feeling that this may turn into a long-winded waste of time with a seller who wont leave the building.

VMR.

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A bit more digging finds out the debts have been taken over by a company that deals with non-performing loans. One other loan has been taken over by one of the more, shall I say, unscrupulous finance companies (going by internet debt forum searches).

Anyone know the position for forced sales? If the owner doesn't want to move out, is it up to the mortgage company to initiate eviction proceedings? Is there a way do automatically search these in the court system?

They must be racking up penalty fees at an incredible rate.

Do the second charge lenders tend to prefer racking up fees to repossession whilst there is still equity in the house?

VMR.

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A bit more digging finds out the debts have been taken over by a company that deals with non-performing loans. One other loan has been taken over by one of the more, shall I say, unscrupulous finance companies (going by internet debt forum searches).

Anyone know the position for forced sales? If the owner doesn't want to move out, is it up to the mortgage company to initiate eviction proceedings? Is there a way do automatically search these in the court system?

They must be racking up penalty fees at an incredible rate.

Do the second charge lenders tend to prefer racking up fees to repossession whilst there is still equity in the house?

VMR.

Why not email the head of debt collection at the loan company saying that you've got a proceed-able offer and wondering what they're doing taking they're time and you'll probably get bored of this game. They'll put the thumbscrews on for you.

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A bit more digging finds out the debts have been taken over by a company that deals with non-performing loans. One other loan has been taken over by one of the more, shall I say, unscrupulous finance companies (going by internet debt forum searches).

Anyone know the position for forced sales? If the owner doesn't want to move out, is it up to the mortgage company to initiate eviction proceedings? Is there a way do automatically search these in the court system?

They must be racking up penalty fees at an incredible rate.

Do the second charge lenders tend to prefer racking up fees to repossession whilst there is still equity in the house?

VMR.

They can rack up penalty fees at £1m a day, for all the difference it's going to make now.

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Three questions:

1. If you bought that house would you be liable for any debts outstanding? Just checking.

2. What kind of house is it? Is it the sort of property in an 'ordinary' area or a well to do area or an upmarket area? I mean, is it the sort of property that people would drive past and thinkg "Oh, they must be loaded"?

3. How much is the asking price?

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Three questions:

1. If you bought that house would you be liable for any debts outstanding? Just checking.

2. What kind of house is it? Is it the sort of property in an 'ordinary' area or a well to do area or an upmarket area? I mean, is it the sort of property that people would drive past and thinkg "Oh, they must be loaded"?

3. How much is the asking price?

1. As in a normal purchase, the solicitors would handle the clearing of the charges (by repaying the debt) before the sale completed.

Normally, its just the mortgate to be cleared. In this case, there are many debts (charges) to be cleared

2. Rural area with large plots, mixed houses from 2-up, 2-down to 5-bed with double garages. This one is in the middle of the range.

3. Not answering that one exactly but council tax band is probably F to give you an idea.

Some more info for HPC's. This process may be useful for other buying what looks like a repo.

As part of the bankrupcy procedure, the assets pass under the control of the Official receiver. In the case of a house with equity in it, the OR may allow up to three years for equity to increase before insisting on a sale.

I found out the bankrupcy date was August 2007 for this one, so it explains the need for sale now. This is time-up. I had no idea non-payers could hold out so long. No wonder there are so few on the market in the UK. As far as I can see, it can take a couple of years to make you bankrupt while you are making some payments then 3 more years before you have to sell.

I wonder if the seller actually has any rights to sell now. Should I be dealing with the Official Receiver instead? My offer is cash+mortgage rather than being in a chain.

VMR.

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1. As in a normal purchase, the solicitors would handle the clearing of the charges (by repaying the debt) before the sale completed.

Normally, its just the mortgate to be cleared. In this case, there are many debts (charges) to be cleared

2. Rural area with large plots, mixed houses from 2-up, 2-down to 5-bed with double garages. This one is in the middle of the range.

3. Not answering that one exactly but council tax band is probably F to give you an idea.

Some more info for HPC's. This process may be useful for other buying what looks like a repo.

As part of the bankrupcy procedure, the assets pass under the control of the Official receiver. In the case of a house with equity in it, the OR may allow up to three years for equity to increase before insisting on a sale.

I found out the bankrupcy date was August 2007 for this one, so it explains the need for sale now. This is time-up. I had no idea non-payers could hold out so long. No wonder there are so few on the market in the UK. As far as I can see, it can take a couple of years to make you bankrupt while you are making some payments then 3 more years before you have to sell.

I wonder if the seller actually has any rights to sell now. Should I be dealing with the Official Receiver instead? My offer is cash+mortgage rather than being in a chain.

VMR.

you make someone bankrupt by paying £800 or whatever the fee is, go to court with proof of an outstanding debt and apply. If you prove the person has no way of paying the debt an order is made.

course, a petitioner may accept payments or come to an arrangement, say an IVA or similar.

It could be that as the Bankruptcy was 2007 (a one year discharge is normal) there was no equity and the releif from other debts, the bank decided to let the man stay in the house and continue making payments.

I gather in some cases, the bank has the option to foreclose at any stage in the future if payments are not kept up and other claimants can benefit from excess of sale price in the future.

This makes bankruptcy so much more complicated these days where "deals" are done. In the past, the debt was wiped and that was that.

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1. As in a normal purchase, the solicitors would handle the clearing of the charges (by repaying the debt) before the sale completed.

Normally, its just the mortgate to be cleared. In this case, there are many debts (charges) to be cleared

2. Rural area with large plots, mixed houses from 2-up, 2-down to 5-bed with double garages. This one is in the middle of the range.

3. Not answering that one exactly but council tax band is probably F to give you an idea.

Some more info for HPC's. This process may be useful for other buying what looks like a repo.

As part of the bankrupcy procedure, the assets pass under the control of the Official receiver. In the case of a house with equity in it, the OR may allow up to three years for equity to increase before insisting on a sale.

I found out the bankrupcy date was August 2007 for this one, so it explains the need for sale now. This is time-up. I had no idea non-payers could hold out so long. No wonder there are so few on the market in the UK. As far as I can see, it can take a couple of years to make you bankrupt while you are making some payments then 3 more years before you have to sell.

I wonder if the seller actually has any rights to sell now. Should I be dealing with the Official Receiver instead? My offer is cash+mortgage rather than being in a chain.

VMR.

This is great info, thanks!!

I never knew you could walk into Land Registry and get all this data - you can find out about previous prices, the financing of the property and a whole load of other stuff for £8? Is there a similar thing in Scotland?

What is the Land Registry house price indicator like? Is it a good one compared to Halifax etc?

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I never knew you could walk into Land Registry and get all this data - you can find out about previous prices, the financing of the property and a whole load of other stuff for £8? Is there a similar thing in Scotland?

What is the Land Registry house price indicator like? Is it a good one compared to Halifax etc?

For £4, you can get the Title plan, basically an outline on a map.

For £4, you can get the Register. This has the info on charges, bankrupcy protection etc. It tells you who the finance companies are so you can then look up to see what type they are e.g. High Street, 2nd charge specialist, no-better-than-loan-shark, debt recovery.

The register does not tell you the amount of previous sale history. You can get the sale history from a copy of the deeds. It used to be all on the HIPs but that requirements has now gone. (shame - saves a lot of wasted time).

I have no idea about a Scottish register.

The Land registry is more comprehensive (but not fully) than the Haliwide as it covers the whole country and cash sales. It has more lag though.

VMR.

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Land reg often has the previous purchase price.

I guess the unscrupulous debt company is Link? They never get orders for sale - in practice, it's really only the registered chargees who apply for orders for possession, and even then many are content to let the arrears sit there so long as the borrower keeps up the monthly instalments.

I'm afraid a big chunk of the house market is in a financial version of limbo. There will be some very strange outcomes in the years ahead, and I guess alot of bankrupt borrowers will effectively get their houses for free.

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  • 145 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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