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Cameron Suggests Fixed-Term Ha Tenancies

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-wants-fixedterm-council-house-tenancies-2042147.html

Council houses should no longer be granted "for life", David Cameron suggested today in a bid to make sure those in most need can access accommodation.

The Prime Minister said it makes sense for tenants to be given fixed-term deals in future - so they can be moved on if their circumstances change.

He spoke out after being questioned by a mother of two teenagers who said she had slept on a blow-up bed for two years because her local council could not find her a bigger house.

Any move to reform the system would cause "a big argument", he conceded - but said he believes it is right to look at a more flexible system.

The Government is investing more money in social housing, he told the voter who raised her case during a public question and answer session in Birmingham.

"But there is a bigger question here, which is: how do we make sure that people are able to move through the housing chain?", he went on.

"At the moment we have a system very much where, if you get a council house or an affordable house, it is yours forever and in some cases people actually hand them down to their children.

"And actually it ought to be about need. Your need has got greater ... and yet there isn't really the opportunity to move."

Many councils operate successful "swap" schemes to match tenants, he said.

"But there is a question mark about whether, in future, should we be asking, actually, when you are given a council home, is it for fixed period, because maybe in five or 10 years you will be doing a different job and be better paid and you won't need that home, you will be able to go into the private sector.

"Do we want to reform tenure to actually enable people to move through housing rather than seeing it as something that you either get - 'great, I've got my council house' - or you don't get - 'bad, I'm sleeping on a blow-up mattress'.

"So I think a more flexible system - that not everyone will support and will lead to a quite a big argument ... looking at a more flexible system I think makes sense.

"Not talking about existing tenants but, for future tenants, asking: can we relate more the need you have to the housing that you get, making sure we have more social mobility and people can move through social housing, rather than actually see it as something they get for life?"

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Council houses should no longer be granted "for life", David Cameron suggested today.

Errr ... hang on. Council accommodation can be assigned to a tenant for LIFE?

I always assumed council homes were temporarily allocated to those in need, to help them out & give them a base for getting on?

For life?! Boy, am I naive. But then, I don't have much in common with "these types of people" **.

--

** Feel free ...

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Is there anything to stop a single occupant of a three bed council house getting a £90 a week lodger in (no tax implication) and living more or less rent free, with a bedroom to spare?

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Is there an income cut-off, whereby, if you earn/have an amount over a certain threshold, that you have to give your HA property back? Or do you keep it whatever?

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Bbbbut it's my right!. It was my fathers right and his fathers before him, why am I being victimized?

Still, this also requires longer tenure for "private tenants" and an end to the sale of council houses to any Tom, Dick or Harry who is ever fortunate enough to be provided one. As long as they keep selling them and not making more there will never, ever, ever, ever be enough to go round.

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Just to confirm:

Any suggestion of a tax based on land/property wealth is met with howls of "what about the poor old widow living in her family mansion - why should she be forced to leave"

But poor people can be shunted about like pawns on a chess board.

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Errr ... hang on. Council accommodation can be assigned to a tenant for LIFE?

I always assumed council homes were temporarily allocated to those in need, to help them out & give them a base for getting on?

For life?! Boy, am I naive. But then, I don't have much in common with "these types of people" **.

--

** Feel free ...

Yep, naive! For life and usually able to pass on too!

And, it does take all sorts!

Is there anything to stop a single occupant of a three bed council house getting a £90 a week lodger in (no tax implication) and living more or less rent free, with a bedroom to spare?

Just the tenancy agreement but that means SFA. I know someone renting out their council flat (subletting) "illegally" whilst they shack up with their girlfriend.

Is there an income cut-off, whereby, if you earn/have an amount over a certain threshold, that you have to give your HA property back? Or do you keep it whatever?

I don't believe there is, unless it's a fairly recent change. They do however offer you money to downsize - yep cash. I know someone who was given £30k to move out of their 3 bed flat to a 1 bed and someone else who was paid a similar amount to move out of council accommodation entirely.

I think I'm gonna knock-up my sister so we can get a flat too (Keef, thought you might like that).

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Just to confirm:

Any suggestion of a tax based on land/property wealth is met with howls of "what about the poor old widow living in her family mansion - why should she be forced to leave"

But poor people can be shunted about like pawns on a chess board.

Why is someone in social housing poor?

Think Baroness Labour peer - she isn't poor, owns other properties yet has subsidised social housing in the heart of London.

Why should people be given indefinite shelter for "peanuts" when everyone else has to pay?

As for the old lady, it's her house and if she can afford the tax then good, if not then she should have to sell too (if ever such a system was implemented).

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Can someone explain to me the history of council housing? Why does anyone get to pay less for housing, how did it all start?

BOOTNOTE : It started because there was a war and there were no houses, IMHO the whole principle of council houses is outdated, we aren't in a post war situation. The whole system should be abolished and the field levelled. The problem isn't with the poor being poor, it appears the problem is the majority of the working class appear to be unable to save and spend every penny and get into serious consumer based debt

Edited by AteMoose

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there was a similar thread to this a week ago. As I said previously, council house tenants (because thats what they are, really, tenants, except that the taxpayer helps pay their way than tenants in the private sector) should have fixed term tenancies - to help people support themselves out of poverty.

Those that help themselves out of poverty should then not be entitled to a council house, as they are no longer in need of one.

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So Dave appears to be articulating a 'principle':-

"can we relate more the need you have to the housing that you get, making sure we have more social mobility and people can move through social housing, rather than actually see it as something they get for life?"

But then decides it shouldn't apply to anyone currently in a council house :lol:

"Not talking about existing tenants but, for future tenants"

What's he going to do, build millions of new council houses for people to rent for 6 months before they 'move through' into onward and upward into their final resting place in a Barratt home?

It's like asking a 5yr old to draw house with crayons.

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Is there anything to stop a single occupant of a three bed council house getting a £90 a week lodger in (no tax implication) and living more or less rent free, with a bedroom to spare?

once they are in, no.

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Can someone explain to me the history of council housing? Why does anyone get to pay less for housing, how did it all start?

BOOTNOTE : It started because there was a war and there were no houses, IMHO the whole principle of council houses is outdated, we aren't in a post war situation. The whole system should be abolished and the field levelled.

Wiki says otherwise ... although states that a boom took place after the 1st World War.

It was not until 1885, when a Royal Commission was held, that the state took an interest. This led to the Housing of the Working Classes Act 1890, which encouraged local authorities to improve the housing in their areas. As a consequence the London County Council opened the Boundary Estate in 1900, and many local councils began building flats and houses in the early 20th century. The First World War indirectly provided a new impetus, when the poor physical health and condition of many urban recruits to the army was noted with shock and alarm. This led to a campaign known as Homes fit for heroes and in 1919 the Government first required councils to provide housing, helping them to do so through the provision of subsidies, under the Housing Act 1919. The government was no doubt encouraged by the increasing influence of the Labour Party and the widespread strikes and mutinies which characterized Britain in 1919. Many houses were built in cottage estates as in Downham Estate as well as in blocks of flats, known as "council blocks".[2]

While new council housing had been built, little had been done to resolve the problem of inner city slums. This was to change with the Housing Act 1930, which required councils to prepare slum clearance plans, and some progress was made before the Second World War intervened.

Full LINK (quite interesting if true)

I agree, the field should be leveled and many of the tower blocks too!

Edited by REP013

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Can someone explain to me the history of council housing?  Why does anyone get to pay less for housing, how did it all start?

Council housing acted as a landlord of last resort. It acted as a brake on rents.

Those that help themselves out of poverty should then not be entitled to a council house, as they are no longer in need of one.

Why get "out of poverty" if your then stuck with extortionate private rental rates. You get a job and it means you go from a 2 bed council house into a private rental bedsit.

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I think its a start, be sure that "Furture" renters will mean the old ons forced to sign NEW contracts. Its a good way to put a gun to the head of a few head as well, such as those SCUM bags causing trouble on an estate can be booted off without ASBO delay. We need to build a "place" for them, so bad so scarly that they tow the line...homes made from Containers sort of thing.

Mike

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Council housing acted as a landlord of last resort. It acted as a brake on rents.

Why get "out of poverty" if your then stuck with extortionate private rental rates. You get a job and it means you go from a 2 bed council house into a private rental bedsit.

Give them 5 years fixed term and then they're out and back to the bottom of the housing list so others can get a chance.

5 years should be enough for anyone to turn their lives around.

5 years with no arguments. This will have the opposite affect of what you are suggesting.

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I think its a start, be sure that "Furture" renters will mean the old ons forced to sign NEW contracts. Its a good way to put a gun to the head of a few head as well, such as those SCUM bags causing trouble on an estate can be booted off without ASBO delay. We need to build a "place" for them, so bad so scarly that they tow the line...homes made from Containers sort of thing.

Mike

there are quite a few empty containers on ships heading to china?

But seriously it is supply and demand, the price is the price, its not private that is overpriced, council is well under priced. IMHO council houses should cost the same if not more than private homes to rent, and if you damage the place your on the street...

Edited by AteMoose

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Can someone explain to me the history of council housing? Why does anyone get to pay less for housing, how did it all start?

BOOTNOTE : It started because there was a war and there were no houses, IMHO the whole principle of council houses is outdated, we aren't in a post war situation. The whole system should be abolished and the field levelled. The problem isn't with the poor being poor, it appears the problem is the majority of the working class appear to be unable to save and spend every penny and get into serious consumer based debt

Yes, we should all have private BTL landlords. BTL's are good people who deserve tax breaks and tenants should be very happy that they are paying someone else's mortgage and keeping them in a comfortable old age.

Its true what some poster have said about this site, its driven by jealousy. Missed out on HPI? its not fair. But when the boot is on the other foot....

For life and usually able to pass on too!

Not usually able to pass it on. Certainly in HA's you cannot pass it on - the children have to apply themselves.

Edited by Peter Hun

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Yes, we should all have private BTL landlords. BTL's are good people who deserve tax breaks and tenants should be very happy that they are paying someone else's mortgage and keeping them in a comfortable old age.

Its true what some poster have said about this site, its driven by jealousy. Missed out on HPI? its not fair. But when the boot is on the other foot....

You will notice I am a Bull not a bear... Good for BTLers taking risks and getting some pretty normal tax breaks for the risk. Anyone can do it you know? Edited by AteMoose

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Yes, we should all have private BTL landlords. BTL's are good people who deserve tax breaks and tenants should be very happy that they are paying someone else's mortgage and keeping them in a comfortable old age.

Its true what some poster have said about this site, its driven by jealousy. Missed out on HPI? its not fair. But when the boot is on the other foot....

Not usually able to pass it on. Certainly in HA's you cannot pass it on - the children have to apply themselves.

I know little about HA property.

My family and friends are nearly all from good old fashioned council houses and the rule, unless changed, is that you can pass them on ONCE.

HA is a different beast. It's a BTL game for the "big boys". At least with council houses there was no real profiteering - until the right to buy!

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Makes sense.. instead of just giving someone a council house, you provide them with a fixed duration tenancy agreement.. much as you might find in the private sector.

The problem is.. what happens at the end of the 5 years? out on the street? I can see the Mirror headlines already.

That is the part that'll take some serious planning.

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Makes sense.. instead of just giving someone a council house, you provide them with a fixed duration tenancy agreement.. much as you might find in the private sector.

The problem is.. what happens at the end of the 5 years? out on the street? I can see the Mirror headlines already.

That is the part that'll take some serious planning.

Entitlements a bitch!

Perhaps it would be more simple to give them the place for 5 years and then rent reverts to the 74th percentile of local rents rather than the subsidised council rents.

HA's should be taken over by the councils a la Northern Rock & Bradford & Bingley, to facilitate this change.

But it still doesn't matter whilst they are still selling them off.

The Scenario.

Get council house

RTB after 4 years

Rent back to council for 10 years

Aint free enterprise great?

Edited by REP013

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Errr ... hang on. Council accommodation can be assigned to a tenant for LIFE?

I always assumed council homes were temporarily allocated to those in need, to help them out & give them a base for getting on?

For life?! Boy, am I naive. But then, I don't have much in common with "these types of people" **.

--

** Feel free ...

They are and always have been for life! And it is true that they can be passed on to near family on death. I would agree that people's circumstances should be reviewed every so often - not every year, but certainly every 5 years. If they are financially sufficient then they should be asked to pay a higher rent and in some cases given 6 months notice to leave and rent or buy privately. You do have to ask why people who earn £30-40k plus should have this help when there is a long list of needy persons waiting on lists. There will be about 10% of council tenants like that who just stay put forever.

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  • 152 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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