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Economy To Blame As Our Crime Rate Surpasses The U S?

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/7922755/England-has-worse-crime-rate-than-the-US-says-Civitas-study.html

England has worse crime rate than the US, says Civitas study
England and Wales has one of the worst crime rates among developed nations for rapes, burglaries and robberies, a major report has found.

IMO the economy does have something to do with our shocking crime rate. But what lies behind this turnaround to where our crime exceeds the US?

I find extortion to be commonplace with the spread of "revenue enhancing" 0845 numbers to call government departments, service departments of companies etc. Fine print everywhere when you sign up for internet, phone etc. And there are the banks... Thuggery is widespread on our streets and knife crime is epidemic in our large cities.

So--is it the economy or something else?

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The majority of the US is extremely law abiding. No petty crime or vandalism.

There aren't many UK cities where you can happily leave your garden furniture in the front garden all summer.

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http://www.telegraph...itas-study.html

England has worse crime rate than the US, says Civitas study
England and Wales has one of the worst crime rates among developed nations for rapes, burglaries and robberies, a major report has found.

IMO the economy does have something to do with our shocking crime rate. But what lies behind this turnaround to where our crime exceeds the US?

I find extortion to be commonplace with the spread of "revenue enhancing" 0845 numbers to call government departments, service departments of companies etc. Fine print everywhere when you sign up for internet, phone etc. And there are the banks... Thuggery is widespread on our streets and knife crime is epidemic in our large cities.

So--is it the economy or something else?

Tell me about it. I was in the US a few weeks back (near Atlanta), and was chatting to a Policeman and commented on how it actually felt safer than London. They did have a high police presence, and i did remark that in the UK we'd had a really bad spate of black on black crime with knives and guns. He was black himself and said they had done a lot in the area to try and give the young kids often from broken homes something to do. I said that is probably one of the issues in the UK as we seem to be slashing budgets all over now. He said well if they don't spend time with adult role models, they'll spend time with the drug dealers instead.

Edited by Mikhail Liebenstein

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The answers obvious...

In the US the cops are armed and shoot to kill...

In the US the public have the right to bear arms and defend themselves and thier property..

In the UK the cops are largely paper pushers and are unarmed..

In the UK the public are denied access to the means to defend themselves and if they do so anyway they are brutally punished by the "justice" system..

In the UK we have totally uncontrolled borders - open to any criminal looking for an easy target...

Not really a surprise is it.

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The answers obvious...

In the US the cops are armed and shoot to kill...

In the US the public have the right to bear arms and defend themselves and thier property..

In the UK the cops are largely paper pushers and are unarmed..

In the UK the public are denied access to the means to defend themselves and if they do so anyway they are brutally punished by the "justice" system..

In the UK we have totally uncontrolled borders - open to any criminal looking for an easy target...

Not really a surprise is it.

The "Home Alone" factor may have something to do with the low rate of burglaries in the US. The burglar may have cause to think twice before entering and robbing a household in the event the occupier is a member of the NRA anxious to try out his new Streetsweeper on any intruder unlucky enough to pick on "the wrong house" and make someone's day.

I recall a case in this country where a burglar successfully sued the property owner after the criminal fell through an unguarded plate glass roof causing him injuries and time off work.

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Stop the police having to waste so much time on paperwork, and introduce swift, severe justice (the stocks would be good for minor vandalism) and also taking council or other subsidised accommodation of troublemaking families quickly, and then hounding them out of town, and also make prisons cheaper per inmate per year (I could think of lots of ways!) and we could seriously reduce crime.

And definitely make criminals pay for the damage they cause.

Even if that means taking their future income and pensions. Someone goes out and steals a £20K car and wrecks it. At present, he might get a few months in jail, but he won't be required to pay for the car, that is done by the insurance companies, which load the cost onto the premiums of the law-abiding.

Under my system, the thief would have to pay that back, and until he did, any money he is "entitled" to from the state would go to pay for the cost of his crimes.

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The "Home Alone" factor may have something to do with the low rate of burglaries in the US. The burglar may have cause to think twice before entering and robbing a household in the event the occupier is a member of the NRA anxious to try out his new Streetsweeper on any intruder unlucky enough to pick on "the wrong house" and make someone's day.

I recall a case in this country where a burglar successfully sued the property owner after the criminal fell through an unguarded plate glass roof causing him injuries and time off work.

Yup - Criminals are like water - they follow the path of least resistance and right now the UK is toilet paper soft on crime and criminals.

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I recall a case in this country where a burglar successfully sued the property owner after the criminal fell through an unguarded plate glass roof causing him injuries and time off work.

I must admit I have near zero confidence in the UK's legal system having tried to use it in the past to obtain justice.

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I must admit I have near zero confidence in the UK's legal system having tried to use it in the past to obtain justice.

Too many years under New Labour's criminal's rights approach to justice.

Also, deregulation of everyting has given the crooks a field day. 0845 numbers are symbolic of extortion rackets.

Edited by Realistbear

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Stop the police having to waste so much time on paperwork, and introduce swift, severe justice (the stocks would be good for minor vandalism) and also taking council or other subsidised accommodation of troublemaking families quickly, and then hounding them out of town, and also make prisons cheaper per inmate per year (I could think of lots of ways!) and we could seriously reduce crime.

And definitely make criminals pay for the damage they cause.

Even if that means taking their future income and pensions. Someone goes out and steals a £20K car and wrecks it. At present, he might get a few months in jail, but he won't be required to pay for the car, that is done by the insurance companies, which load the cost onto the premiums of the law-abiding.

Under my system, the thief would have to pay that back, and until he did, any money he is "entitled" to from the state would go to pay for the cost of his crimes.

Too much sympathy for the old Bill there I'm afraid: they always winge that they have too much paperwork and that keeps them off the streets. The actual truth is that they are lazy, gutless and risk-averse, they see their role as a agency to collect data on crimes..after they have taken place...they generally go to great lengths to make sure they don't turn up when a crime is actually occuring: that might neccesitate doing some real work....ask any publican whos ever called the old bill because theres a fight in his pub, you can almost time to the second the deliberate 20 minute delay (to let things sort themselves out) from placing the call to Mr Plod turning up..or check out that chap in Cumbria who manage to drive around for hours shooting people dead without any police effort to stop him (they waited for him to shoot himself). The police are lazy, self serving bureacrats and a lot of the blame soaring crime rates can be laid at their door. The Old Bill: useless, pointless and unfit for purpose.

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The answers obvious...

In the US the cops are armed and shoot to kill...

In the US the public have the right to bear arms and defend themselves and thier property..

In the UK the cops are largely paper pushers and are unarmed..

In the UK the public are denied access to the means to defend themselves and if they do so anyway they are brutally punished by the "justice" system..

In the UK we have totally uncontrolled borders - open to any criminal looking for an easy target...

Not really a surprise is it.

+1

I lived in colorado for a few years, gutted when the company went tits up & my visa got revoked; 30 days to get out!!!

the "make my day law" reduces domestic dwelling burglaries :D

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The "Home Alone" factor may have something to do with the low rate of burglaries in the US. The burglar may have cause to think twice before entering and robbing a household in the event the occupier is a member of the NRA anxious to try out his new Streetsweeper on any intruder unlucky enough to pick on "the wrong house" and make someone's day.

I recall a case in this country where a burglar successfully sued the property owner after the criminal fell through an unguarded plate glass roof causing him injuries and time off work.

There's a lot more of this in the US, it's not some vigilante dream. I remember one case where the burglar got stuck in teh garage and only had do biscuits to eat for three days so sued, he probably got something.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/7922755/England-has-worse-crime-rate-than-the-US-says-Civitas-study.html

England has worse crime rate than the US, says Civitas study
England and Wales has one of the worst crime rates among developed nations for rapes, burglaries and robberies, a major report has found.

IMO the economy does have something to do with our shocking crime rate. But what lies behind this turnaround to where our crime exceeds the US?

I find extortion to be commonplace with the spread of "revenue enhancing" 0845 numbers to call government departments, service departments of companies etc. Fine print everywhere when you sign up for internet, phone etc. And there are the banks... Thuggery is widespread on our streets and knife crime is epidemic in our large cities.

So--is it the economy or something else?

Data from 2006. So not to do with the recession, possibly crime rises due to a boom?

Based on stats on police reported crimes (read up on issues of changing definitions with this data). Data used was after it has been supplied to and processed by the UN. And is then further interpreted by Civitas.

Nothing to see here IMO. Mainly the Telegraph looking to feed the internal Conservative squabble between the Howard and Clarke views.

Edited by Jadoube

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Yup - Criminals are like water - they follow the path of least resistance and right now the UK is toilet paper soft on crime and criminals.

Criminals are more like piss. Similar to water, but smelly and dirty, needing to be flushed away..

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The problem is what about all the unreported crimes?

I've not reported several crimes namely because I felt it would be a waste of my time.

People keep nicking bits off my CBR, tax disc, indicators, mirrors those kinds of things.

Also remember the British Crime survey only allows somebody to be a victim of crime 5 times any more and it is ignored. A few of my biker friends in Blackpool have their windows smashed in quite regularly but it can only be counted 5 times.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/7922755/England-has-worse-crime-rate-than-the-US-says-Civitas-study.html

England has worse crime rate than the US, says Civitas study
England and Wales has one of the worst crime rates among developed nations for rapes, burglaries and robberies, a major report has found.

IMO the economy does have something to do with our shocking crime rate. But what lies behind this turnaround to where our crime exceeds the US?

I find extortion to be commonplace with the spread of "revenue enhancing" 0845 numbers to call government departments, service departments of companies etc. Fine print everywhere when you sign up for internet, phone etc. And there are the banks... Thuggery is widespread on our streets and knife crime is epidemic in our large cities.

So--is it the economy or something else?

This is Daily Mail level BS. From the report:

Among two other measures, England and Wales fared better, being ranked 16th out of 35 countries for “intentional homicides” and 19th for major assaults.

Which is immediately followed by this:

David Green, Civitas’s director, said: “England and Wales are high-crime societies compared with other developed nations. We have a lot of crime compared with other similar countries.

Which seems completely self contradictory, at least when considering violent crime, which is by far the most serious type. The headline does not reflect what's in the article. It might be true that there are more burglaries in the UK than the US, but the murder rate in the UK is less than a third of that in the US, sexual assaults are also consdierably less common. Which way round would you rather have it?

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Too much sympathy for the old Bill there I'm afraid: they always winge that they have too much paperwork and that keeps them off the streets. The actual truth is that they are lazy, gutless and risk-averse, they see their role as a agency to collect data on crimes..after they have taken place...they generally go to great lengths to make sure they don't turn up when a crime is actually occuring: that might neccesitate doing some real work....ask any publican whos ever called the old bill because theres a fight in his pub, you can almost time to the second the deliberate 20 minute delay (to let things sort themselves out) from placing the call to Mr Plod turning up..or check out that chap in Cumbria who manage to drive around for hours shooting people dead without any police effort to stop him (they waited for him to shoot himself). The police are lazy, self serving bureacrats and a lot of the blame soaring crime rates can be laid at their door. The Old Bill: useless, pointless and unfit for purpose.

Agreed, and putting little girls in police uniforms and expecting them to do a full grown policeman's job is a big problem.they command no respect.

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More like the UK isnt as economically segregated as the US. Decent working people in this country are forced to live side by side with the client class, thanks to the wonders of housing benefit, who often top up subsistence level state benefits with the proceeds of crime. Ill bet some of the hoods in american cities police never enter, so even more crime there goes unreported. OTOH id say the decent areas of the US are FAR safer than here.

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51GSF20NCML._SL500_AA300_.jpg

The book the government lied about and wanted to ban - the explosive truth about modern British policing, by a serving policeman writing deep undercover for fear of the sack.

WASTING POLICE TIME explains why there's never a policeman around when you need one, why the 'war on crime' is a sham and how senior officers and the government conspire to fake the crime stats and fool the public. PC David Copperfield is an ordinary bobby with an extraordinary talent for writing - he's hilariously scarcastic and biting about his bosses, the criminals he deals with and the judges and politicians who allow our streets to collapse into chaos as they themselves live in fortified houses and are driven around by armed police.

Link

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The problem is what about all the unreported crimes?

I've not reported several crimes namely because I felt it would be a waste of my time.

People keep nicking bits off my CBR, tax disc, indicators, mirrors those kinds of things.

Also remember the British Crime survey only allows somebody to be a victim of crime 5 times any more and it is ignored. A few of my biker friends in Blackpool have their windows smashed in quite regularly but it can only be counted 5 times.

I was going to say why do you leave that in the street, but I have family in the US who happily leave a Harley on the drive and nothing happens to it, so why shouldn't you be able to.

Why do they have their windows smashed in? Rough area or somebody just has it in for bikers for some reason. Maybe it's a northern thing, I can't think of anybody down here who dislikes bikers per se.

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And definitely make criminals pay for the damage they cause.

Even if that means taking their future income and pensions. Someone goes out and steals a £20K car and wrecks it. At present, he might get a few months in jail, but he won't be required to pay for the car, that is done by the insurance companies, which load the cost onto the premiums of the law-abiding.

Under my system, the thief would have to pay that back, and until he did, any money he is "entitled" to from the state would go to pay for the cost of his crimes.

How are they going to fund this £20k payment for the car?

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Too much sympathy for the old Bill there I'm afraid: they always winge that they have too much paperwork and that keeps them off the streets. The actual truth is that they are lazy, gutless and risk-averse, they see their role as a agency to collect data on crimes..after they have taken place...they generally go to great lengths to make sure they don't turn up when a crime is actually occuring: that might neccesitate doing some real work....ask any publican whos ever called the old bill because theres a fight in his pub, you can almost time to the second the deliberate 20 minute delay (to let things sort themselves out) from placing the call to Mr Plod turning up..or check out that chap in Cumbria who manage to drive around for hours shooting people dead without any police effort to stop him (they waited for him to shoot himself). The police are lazy, self serving bureacrats and a lot of the blame soaring crime rates can be laid at their door. The Old Bill: useless, pointless and unfit for purpose.

I agree 100% . The overtime cost is mind shattering , that is why this new lot is cutting it ! it must have been a shock to them to find this out.

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and also make prisons cheaper per inmate per year (I could think of lots of ways!) and we could seriously reduce crime.

Under my system, the thief would have to pay that back, and until he did, any money he is "entitled" to from the state would go to pay for the cost of his crimes.

I've always marvelled at how prisons seem to cost more than very expensive hotels.

One suggestion form a guy at work was to take the bulk of the prison service & offshore it. I'me sure that there are lots of county's (Iran, China Syria, Thailand) who could house our criminals for a fraction of what we pay now. See who submits the lowest quote. This would provide a much greater deterrent to re-offend & allow appropriately long sentences for severe crimes or repeat criminal behavior.

The fact that some criminals have forty or more convictions (which probably equates to more than 400 crimes) is evidence that the current regime is not providing criminals with sufficient incentive to modify their behavior.

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I've always marvelled at how prisons seem to cost more than very expensive hotels.

One suggestion form a guy at work was to take the bulk of the prison service & offshore it. I'me sure that there are lots of county's (Iran, China Syria, Thailand) who could house our criminals for a fraction of what we pay now. See who submits the lowest quote. This would provide a much greater deterrent to re-offend & allow appropriately long sentences for severe crimes or repeat criminal behavior.

The fact that some criminals have forty or more convictions (which probably equates to more than 400 crimes) is evidence that the current regime is not providing criminals with sufficient incentive to modify their behavior.

Do they really cost a lot?

I often think the "£40k a year" is plucked out of the air to make people think imprisoning people is a bad idea.

Back of an envelope:

One prison officer for every ten prisoners (£30k), same again in admin staff and overheads (£30k), £4k food each.

£100k - £10k per prisoner

I'm probably understating it slightly but unless they're ascribing some vast capital cost to the prison itself I can't see how they get anywhere near £40k a year.

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  • 244 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
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      • up 5%



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