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Dubai

....then They Came For The Drinkers.....

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Now the anti-smoking lobby have achieved many of their objectives, I didn't think it would be long before alcohol was targetted. Now they've started....

The ten local authorities in and around Manchester hope to pass a by-law that would set a minimum price of 50p per unit of alcohol, in an attempt to end to the cheap deals blamed for drink-fuelled disorder and health problems.

It would affect all the pubs, supermarkets and off-licences in Manchester, Bolton, Rochdale, Oldham and the area covered by the The Association of Greater Manchester Authorities (AGMA), which has a population of 3.9 million.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7922579/Manchester-attempts-to-impose-minimum-price-of-alcohol.html

First found here, which I'll link for some of the choice comments!!:lol:

http://www.oldholborn.net/2010/08/unelected-dictators.html

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Now the anti-smoking lobby have achieved many of their objectives, I didn't think it would be long before alcohol was targetted. Now they've started....

The ten local authorities in and around Manchester hope to pass a by-law that would set a minimum price of 50p per unit of alcohol, in an attempt to end to the cheap deals blamed for drink-fuelled disorder and health problems.

It would affect all the pubs, supermarkets and off-licences in Manchester, Bolton, Rochdale, Oldham and the area covered by the The Association of Greater Manchester Authorities (AGMA), which has a population of 3.9 million.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7922579/Manchester-attempts-to-impose-minimum-price-of-alcohol.html

First found here, which I'll link for some of the choice comments!!:lol:

http://www.oldholborn.net/2010/08/unelected-dictators.html

Won't work, bath tub and sugar sales may increase though...

In Russia when leaders increased the price, Samogan became more popular (bathtub moonshine). Alcohol unlike tobacco is rather easily made at home.

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That would add more than 50% to the price of my regular tipple.

LIDL's Hatherwood bitter, £2.30 or so for 4 (great beer, try it). They're 1.8 units each so 7.2 units or £3.60.

And we all know if they got it to 50p a unit there is no way they would stop there.

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Now the anti-smoking lobby have achieved many of their objectives, I didn't think it would be long before alcohol was targetted. Now they've started....

The ten local authorities in and around Manchester hope to pass a by-law that would set a minimum price of 50p per unit of alcohol, in an attempt to end to the cheap deals blamed for drink-fuelled disorder and health problems.

It would affect all the pubs, supermarkets and off-licences in Manchester, Bolton, Rochdale, Oldham and the area covered by the The Association of Greater Manchester Authorities (AGMA), which has a population of 3.9 million.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7922579/Manchester-attempts-to-impose-minimum-price-of-alcohol.html

First found here, which I'll link for some of the choice comments!!:lol:

http://www.oldholborn.net/2010/08/unelected-dictators.html

I'm just watching a thing on C4 about the drugs trade. Bottom line is that you will never stop it because there will always be too much money involved.

If you start massively hiking the price of alcohol it will very rapidly become the case that lots of nasty people will make a shit load of money off it and any problems we currently have with alcohol with be increased ten fold as people will start getting killed on the supply side, as well as on the comsumption side.

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And we all know if they got it to 50p a unit there is no way they would stop there.

Exactly. From Oldholborn's site:

Unusual in that local authorities have never set the price for anything, nor indeed, are allowed to by law.

Andy Walker, at Our Life, said: "There are 1.3 million adults in the North West who drink hazardous or harmful amounts of alcohol. And the cost to the NHS North West, in terms of treating alcohol-related injuries and illnesses, is in excess of £400 million a year."

No matter. A pressure group / fake charity is at the bottom of this little outrage. The ironically named "Our Life" based in Manchester. Not that Our Life were ever elected by the people of Manchester to make up new laws for them, so I thought I'd have a little look at the board:

So first, will the law have to be changed? And second, will the GBP 400 million be a good enough excuse to do it?

Seems that "our life" is taking over the baton from ash......

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That would add more than 50% to the price of my regular tipple.

LIDL's Hatherwood bitter, £2.30 or so for 4 (great beer, try it). They're 1.8 units each so 7.2 units or £3.60.

And we all know if they got it to 50p a unit there is no way they would stop there.

I find it gives me a worse hangover. Not as bad when turned into a shandy though.

Since giving up most alcoholic intake (I've now only 5 cans over 4 weeks and that was 2 on Friday and 3 the next day 2 weeks ago) I have amassed lots of top German beer (Franziskaner and Bitburger) as I'm not spending the money anymore. Problem is I don't drink it now so I'm being a bit silly having 30-odd in stock.

fyi Becks Blue is the best non-alcoholic beer. Actually smells and tastes of beer. All the rest are p1ss I've found so far.

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...and still they fail to address the real causes. In much of Europe alcohol is cheaper yet there are not the same binge problems.

Also, why should moderate social drinkers pay for measures to protect those who don't drink in moderation? Other crime will rise to sub the difference in price.

And, the problem with binge drinking is largely to do with specific types of alcohol, yet this broad-brush approach will hit those who drink all types.

Misconceived, ill-informed, unrefined and bound to faill in all objectives other than fund-raising.

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That would put a 15 pack of Carlsberg to £12.75 - I feel disappointed when I have to pay a tenner. It would also make a 24 pack £20.40 - I paid a tenner recently. And it would put vodka up to a minimum price of £20 per liter - Asda would have to put their price up for Absolut which is a reasonably expensive vodka. The cider companies will be the worst hit - a 2 liter bottle of Strongbow would have a minimum price of £5.30 - more than double the £2.48 that Asda currently charge.

While there is a small chance that this will make some people cut down on their drinking, the main effect will be that it will put a lot of the cheaper British brands out of business in favour of the imported ones. It will also increase the number of people going to Calais to buy their booze. It's not quite worth it at the moment but if the cheapest beer you could buy was £2 a liter and the cheapest vodka £20 then it would definitely be worth it.

I think a lot of this minimum price shite is just bluster because I'm not actually convinced that it's ever going to happen. It's probaly contrary to EU law as it would be a measure having equivalent effect to a quantative restriction on imports because it could potentially reduce the amount of imported alcohol from other EU states. You can do it but it has to be justifyable under one of the available derogations and doesn't look like it would be. The claim appears to be that it's a measure to protect public heath, or public safety, but it's learly not going to achieve those aims.

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...and still they fail to address the real causes. In much of Europe alcohol is cheaper yet there are not the same binge problems.

Also, why should moderate social drinkers pay for measures to protect those who don't drink in moderation? Other crime will rise to sub the difference in price.

And, the problem with binge drinking is largely to do with specific types of alcohol, yet this broad-brush approach will hit those who drink all types.

Misconceived, ill-informed, unrefined and bound to faill in all objectives other than fund-raising.

It wont even do that because alcohol is too easy to make at home. My local home brew shop proprietor must be praying for this to go ahead. Actually, I've run out so I'm off over the first thing tomorrow!

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That would put a 15 pack of Carlsberg to £12.75 - I feel disappointed when I have to pay a tenner. It would also make a 24 pack £20.40 - I paid a tenner recently. And it would put vodka up to a minimum price of £20 per liter - Asda would have to put their price up for Absolut which is a reasonably expensive vodka. The cider companies will be the worst hit - a 2 liter bottle of Strongbow would have a minimum price of £5.30 - more than double the £2.48 that Asda currently charge.

While there is a small chance that this will make some people cut down on their drinking, the main effect will be that it will put a lot of the cheaper British brands out of business in favour of the imported ones. It will also increase the number of people going to Calais to buy their booze. It's not quite worth it at the moment but if the cheapest beer you could buy was £2 a liter and the cheapest vodka £20 then it would definitely be worth it.

The government are one step ahead of you.

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Same in Sweden which has massive taxes on alcohol. People have stills in their country houses (holiday cottages in the woods or mountains) and also make home brew beer.

This is largely myth. The Swedish offies (which are all state controlled - how on earth they got that one past the EU is beyond me) are priced pretty much the same as offies here. You don't get the special offers like two for one but retail prices are pretty much the same. Bars and restaurants are extremely expensive though as I think they have different tax schedule or something.

The reason people have stills is an availability issue. All the offies close over the weekend and don't open late during the week and if you live in the ar$e end of no where there aren't any offies anyway. Another complicating factor is the fact that drinking is actually somewhat socially unnacceptable - especially weekday drinking. So much so that lots of people wouldn't admit to their mates that they have a glass of wine of an evening for fear of being branded a hopeless alchie.

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That would add more than 50% to the price of my regular tipple.

LIDL's Hatherwood bitter, £2.30 or so for 4 (great beer, try it). They're 1.8 units each so 7.2 units or £3.60.

And we all know if they got it to 50p a unit there is no way they would stop there.

I bought a 4-pack of this for the first time this weekend, with the intention of using it purely for killing Slugs and Snails that are trying their best to destroy my crop of Tommies.

Thought I'd try a bit, and well I'll be damned - It's not the best beer in the world, but it sure as hell ain't the worst either. For £2.30 for 4, I may be purchasing a few more. (To drink in between the Hobgoblin)

Got to disagree with Tin Foil Hat about the Becks non-alcoholic. I found it to be the worst tasting non-alcoholic beer I've ever tasted. Rather fond of the Cobra though.

Different tastes and all that Jazz.

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Thanks for the video. Another useful tip is to add 1/2 cup of strong tea (adds tannin, make the cider smoother).

Tannin in normally found in apple skins. Tea is a cheap substitute. You don't get the tea taste because (proportionally) its not much.

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It wont even do that because alcohol is too easy to make at home. My local home brew shop proprietor must be praying for this to go ahead. Actually, I've run out so I'm off over the first thing tomorrow!

Ever tried Cooper's Stout. It's lovely stuff. Everybody I have give some has reckoned it was better that the stuff in the pub.

(you need to make it with Malt Extract though for best results).

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31569

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Ever tried Cooper's Stout. It's lovely stuff. Everybody I have give some has reckoned it was better that the stuff in the pub.

(you need to make it with Malt Extract though for best results).

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31569

No but I've done Black Pearl which was lovely. On my list to do again. Putting several batches of wine on in the next few days as I'm fed up having to buy the bloody stuff - corner shop guy is making a fortune off us at present.

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I haven't been to sweden for a while but I worked for a swedish company for many years and have swedish friends and drink was very expensive and hotels etc were unbelieveably expensive. It may have changed but if you were sober in Stockholm on a weekend night you were in a minority. Finland was even worse...

Was there at Christmas. As I say, alcohol in restaurants, pubs, bars, etc is hideously expensive. The offies were on a par with offies here without the offers. Other half is there at the moment - I'll get her to fetch a pricelist thingy back from the offie.

Stockholm is an amazing place to go on the drink if you can afford it. Never seen a minger or a chav anywhere and all the women for some reason think it's incredibly cool to get picked up by British blokes, I have no idea why. If that isn't good enough, Scandinavian blokes are utter pricks and are no sort of challenge. Honestly, it's brilliant. On these points please see below;

Stockholm bar patrons

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It's just so comforting to know that there are plenty of sicko control freaks out there still.

Although it seems unbelievable, they used to burn Catholics and Witches etc. according to current popular tastes at the time. It must have been the same sort of people that nowadays, so self righteously brought us the smoking ban and are now casting around for something else to campaign about.

I think that the American experience with prohibition should have been awful warning to any politician who gets caught up in this madness.

Probably in about 30 years, the smoking ban will be lifted and everyone will wonder what it was all about.

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I'm just watching a thing on C4 about the drugs trade. Bottom line is that you will never stop it because there will always be too much money involved.

If you start massively hiking the price of alcohol it will very rapidly become the case that lots of nasty people will make a shit load of money off it and any problems we currently have with alcohol with be increased ten fold as people will start getting killed on the supply side, as well as on the comsumption side.

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It's just so comforting to know that there are plenty of sicko control freaks out there still.

Although it seems unbelievable, they used to burn Catholics and Witches etc. according to current popular tastes at the time. It must have been the same sort of people that nowadays, so self righteously brought us the smoking ban and are now casting around for something else to campaign about.

I think that the American experience with prohibition should have been awful warning to any politician who gets caught up in this madness.

Probably in about 30 years, the smoking ban will be lifted and everyone will wonder what it was all about.

It was. That's why they haven't banned smoking / drinking outright. That would fail and lead to the sort of trouble prohibition created.

This is a gradual loss of individual freedom, almost imperceptible. We're already used to a bunch of nitwits in gumment dictating what is "best" for us. And we accept that "advice" in general.

The booze clampdown will be just the same as the anti-smoking clampdown.... fear inducing stories in the msm about the harm it does..... the financial cost to society.... gradually filtered in until soon enough we'll have a bunch of vehement anti-alcohol spokespeople ranting at every opportunity.

Next will be massive increases in price, then limitations on where you can imbibe, then the fanatics saying it's not enough, we need to do more....

By the time my kids are old enough to drink, the pubs will be gone and in their place will be a few seedy "Alcohol Clubs" which will be about as attractive as smoking lounges in airports!!

When alcohol is all but banned, it will be the turn of......?

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It was. That's why they haven't banned smoking / drinking outright. That would fail and lead to the sort of trouble prohibition created.

This is a gradual loss of individual freedom, almost imperceptible. We're already used to a bunch of nitwits in gumment dictating what is "best" for us. And we accept that "advice" in general.

The booze clampdown will be just the same as the anti-smoking clampdown.... fear inducing stories in the msm about the harm it does..... the financial cost to society.... gradually filtered in until soon enough we'll have a bunch of vehement anti-alcohol spokespeople ranting at every opportunity.

Next will be massive increases in price, then limitations on where you can imbibe, then the fanatics saying it's not enough, we need to do more....

By the time my kids are old enough to drink, the pubs will be gone and in their place will be a few seedy "Alcohol Clubs" which will be about as attractive as smoking lounges in airports!!

When alcohol is all but banned, it will be the turn of......?

More interesting to me is the question, 'Why do it?'

Do these people suffer from some sort of need to save the World?

Now that religion is falling out of fashion, the street proselytiser has all but vanished. When I was a boy, every sunny summer day on our beach, a small group of people used to parade a banner with 'Repent now' or some such religious message.They obviously liked walking up and down the hot sand in their best clothes displaying this message.

Is this the same sort of driving force bordering on madness?

Too often, religious people will talk of 'seeing the light' and the need to convert others, has this delusion become secularised?

I think that we can understand the grieving families who stoutly declare ' This must never happen again' and set out to get something or other banned. They are just sadly stuck in the bargaining stage of grief and feel that if only they can get their message across, things will be OK, as they were so to speak.

If we were truly sympathetic, we would tell them that while we sympathise with their loss, things will never be the same, and we should help them through the following stage of depression to reach acceptance. It really is sad to see some people battling year after year with their campaign, knowing that they cannot complete their grieving process and get well. So, we have crash helmets for cyclists (compulsory in New Zealand following a tragic death), a ban on pistols, drugs etc. etc..

generally brought about by a few grieving people seeking to control the lives of 60 million others. 'For their own good'

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Guest X-QUORK

Imagine your drug of choice is already illegal, yet less dangerous than alcohol.

How crazy would that be?

Oh.

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Imagine your drug of choice is already illegal, yet less dangerous than alcohol.

How crazy would that be?

Oh.

Many, many assumptions in those two words XQ. Are you thinking of becoming a journalist?

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Guest X-QUORK

Many, many assumptions in those two words XQ. Are you thinking of becoming a journalist?

I'm all ears for your counter-argument.

Maybe I should add that I don't smoke the stuff, I vape it.

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The problem with alcohol in the UK is that there is a collective consensus that accepts that drinking it leads to an inevitable loss of control and subsequent antisocial behaviour. Can't be helped, I'm afraid.

In e.g. Germany, where there is no such consensus, people are capable of drinking large amounts of alcohol while behaving impeccably.

I'm pretty sure that if enough people believed that toothpaste made you impulsively generous, buskers and Big Issue sellers would be going home with £20 notes in their caps.

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  • 152 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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