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swissy_fit

Australia - Can They Really Have It All?

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-10819040

Surely a few of these to supply the cities (which are mostly by the sea) combined with solar power investment and some dams on the rivers that they have could solve many of their problems?

Maybe it's the place to go after all, I guess media from other countries is available on the net, and you can always talk to other immigrants. :P

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-10819040

Surely a few of these to supply the cities (which are mostly by the sea) combined with solar power investment and some dams on the rivers that they have could solve many of their problems?

Maybe it's the place to go after all, I guess media from other countries is available on the net, and you can always talk to other immigrants. :P

I can't think of anything worse than going half way around the world to talk to a bunch of whinging pommies.

Paving over half the outback and building solar power plants wouldn't be a bad idea though.

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It's the best country in the world - dontcha know. Well at least that's what the Ozzies tell us (again and again an..............

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Desalination has solved a major problem in oz, coupled with an abundance of energy it is the ultimate solution.

No real need for new dams as desal can top up existing ones and it is a drought proof system.

There is no real reason why the population in oz couldn't easily reach 100m in the near term.

Sooner than you may think:

australia-neighbours.jpg

Anyway good news re. economically viable de-salination. Singapore is also a leader in this field.

post-1372-12808026438681_thumb.jpg

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I really do hope that it does happen sooner, peacefully as it can, it should and it would be a massive improvement for all involved.

Yes desal has really taken the place by storm. Personally speaking it has become a significant part of my life recently as I am working on the Victoria Desal Project in Melbourne an unbelievable $3.5b in two years project, the largest Public Participation Project in the world ever and the largest contract ever to be executed in the state of Victoria and also the second largest desalt plant in the world. First time in this industry for me so I have had a bit of a learning curve. We are partners with a French company and this is their 251st desal plant. I have been to the source companies making the equipment in various parts of the world with the long termers and met up with an old Japanese guy in Osaka who is the guru on reverse osmosis membranes. That was a moment when you know that you are experiencing someone that is top of their filed and inspires you to do the same.

What is surprising for those that build desal is the resentment buy some of the locals the international staff say that they are used to local communities welcoming the guarantee of the essential life fluid but down here in Victorian Australia they just don’t understand why rent a mob are so against it.

Are you using this new lower energy osmosis desal tech or the old stuff?

Australia struck me as the most wasteful place I have ever visited energy-wise, ffs every single house and apartment block should have solar water heating in a climate like that, there is no excuse for heating water with oil or coal or electricity.

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Are you using this new lower energy osmosis desal tech or the old stuff?

Australia struck me as the most wasteful place I have ever visited energy-wise, ffs every single house and apartment block should have solar water heating in a climate like that, there is no excuse for heating water with oil or coal or electricity.

Same here - I can't believe we've got an electric water heater in our attic, with the amount of heat generated up there naturally (let alone solar).

I'd like a combined aircon (inverter) / water heater ideally (if rebuilding or doing major work on the house) but the last guy I asked gave me a very blank look. They're working on one at the university, AFAIK.

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Yes we have energy recovery units in the high pressure pumping system just before the RO racks. We axe also aligned with AGL to offset the power usage with a wind farm.that will offset the coal fired power consumption. The plant itself will be powered via a 86kn buried HVAC cable arguably the longest buried AC system in the world.

A bit too techy for me, sorry. To cut to the chase, how much energy per litre(or thousand litres) of water, and how does it compare with the Chennai project?

I need to mid my p's and q's on a public forum talking about this highly sensitive project that I am involved with. In another place at another time I will point out to you the errors of your ways when it comes to your observations on energy attitude, you have missed the boat. on that one.

I'd be happy to be corrected - are you saying that all the Australian houses I saw have converted to solar thermal water heating panels since 2002?

I'm sure things have moved on a bit. But only a couple of years back, Oz had the highest CO2 output per capita in the world thanks to the coal-fired electricity generation and the Americanised lifestyle.

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Its a secret and I don’t know what the power consumption was for that other project but if you were to tell me what it was then I will cough if we are less and sneeze if we are more.

I don't know more than what is stated in the article, but assuming it's accurate then just over a dollar for 1000 litres of water must be fairly low-energy, I would think. Astonishing and quite hard to believe might be another description! I'm wondering how long their osmotic membranes will last.

On your other point you we are not aligned and are poles a part when it comes to the energy cycle. I also don’t think Co2 is a problem whatsoever.

I'm trying to think of a logical point of view that could consider heating household water using easily-manufactured simple technology like solar thermal panels as being inferior to heating water by burning coal or oil, and you know, I just can't think of one. But as I say, always happy to be corrected.

Why bother with the windfarm if CO2 isn't a problem then? (for me it's a maybe, there's too much disinformation around to make an accurate judgement) Coal is easy and cheap in Oz.

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Desalination has solved a major problem in oz, coupled with an abundance of energy it is the ultimate solution.

No real need for new dams as desal can top up existing ones and it is a drought proof system.

There is no real reason why the population in oz couldn't easily reach 100m in the near term.

Oh dear oh dear oh dear. With the quality of our soil, I think not.

We didn't need desalination plants when there where 15 million in this country. What is it with people who want to cram even more in? Why do it? 22 million is enough. Just stop it. Stop making problems that then need solutions. If you don't make a problem, it doesn't need to be solved. Quite simple really.

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Australia struck me as the most wasteful place I have ever visited energy-wise, ffs every single house and apartment block should have solar water heating in a climate like that, there is no excuse for heating water with oil or coal or electricity.

+1 (or the equivalent of some of these other heat exchange technologies)

Solar electricity and water tanks too. No excuse really, other than that over the past 25 years we have become more American than the Americans with respect to, education, society, and basic pig ignorance.

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+1 (or the equivalent of some of these other heat exchange technologies)

Solar electricity and water tanks too. No excuse really, other than that over the past 25 years we have become more American than the Americans with respect to, education, society, and basic pig ignorance.

Oz isn't my favourite culture, but even I think you're being a touch harsh there.

PV technology isn't ready yet IMO, even for Oz. It simply isn't efficient enough yet. It will have its day, quite soon if someone can come up with a reasonably priced house battery.

However we still haven't heard a case against thermal solar panels for water heating in Oz. They're cheap, simple and in a climate like that, very efficient. Once installed, I doubt if the average householder would ever spend money on heating water again in most of the country. What's not to like? (unless you're a power company that is).

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However we still haven't heard a case against thermal solar panels for water heating in Oz. They're cheap, simple and in a climate like that, very efficient. Once installed, I doubt if the average householder would ever spend money on heating water again in most of the country. What's not to like? (unless you're a power company that is).

Until recently, developer covenants. "Nah, can't have solar...makes the estate look cheap." etc. etc. There is a lot of good thermal efficient house design in Oz, but for a long time the better estates around here would only allow you to build a brick oven.

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Oz isn't my favourite culture, but even I think you're being a touch harsh there.

I was born in Oz. Lived there until my early 20s before heading to England. Now live back in Oz. There has always been an undercurrent of ignorance in this place which grates with me, but now the culture luxuriates in it. More obese than the US. More pointless 4wd gas guzzling behemoths never used for their prime purpose (as evinced by the fact that many of them now come in cheaper 2wd gas guzzling versions.) State schooling has slid in standards and the universities are not a patch on what they were 25 years ago etc. etc.

I may have been a little harsh, but not by much.

PV technology isn't ready yet IMO, even for Oz. It simply isn't efficient enough yet. It will have its day, quite soon if someone can come up with a reasonably priced house battery.

You may be right on PV, but even now the figures appear to add up in the long run, even without the bonus for sending unused electricity back into the grid.

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You could quite comfortably have 50m in the state of Victoria alone , never mind all of oz. Its not a problem unless you dont like humans..

Just because it might be possible to (in the short term) feed, house (in slave boxes) and water 100 million people in Oz, it doesn't mean it is desirable. Crowding people together changes them for the worse. Locusts: interesting in small groups, but get 50 million of them in one place and life's a misery.

This isn't about not liking people. It is about having a society where there are enough people to support a decent infrastructure, and not so many that people are thwarted. People can live in Mexico City, but that isn't an argument for building a copy in Victoria.

The ONLY motivation I can see for significantly increasing Australia's population by immigration is to kick the old age demographic can a little further down the road, because no one wants to deal with the difficult problems it entails. Well, here is the thing, at some stage it has to be dealt with, and I would rather be in a country with 22 million people sorting it out, than 220 million. But people are short sighted, selfish and don't really care about the world they are leaving for their kids, so f*ck it, bring another 50 million 20 to 30 somethings in.

By the way, if you cannot find someone to be your friend out of 22 million, then you aren't going to find one in 100 million. ;)

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Until recently, developer covenants. "Nah, can't have solar...makes the estate look cheap." etc. etc. There is a lot of good thermal efficient house design in Oz, but for a long time the better estates around here would only allow you to build a brick oven.

:blink::blink::blink::blink:

That is truly incredible, the installation of efficient technology to cut energy use was regarded as "cheap"!

Maybe you're right about the ignorance, I didn't think it was that extreme.

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable

I was quite amazed by the lack of solar water heating over there.

Seems such an obvious thing to do, and it's no more aesthetically displeasing than the tin roof on which it would be fitted, in my opinion.

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:blink::blink::blink::blink:

That is truly incredible, the installation of efficient technology to cut energy use was regarded as "cheap"!

Maybe you're right about the ignorance, I didn't think it was that extreme.

Queensland recently passed a law that prevents covenants restricting things in such ways.

However, the following article suggests that a the law is going ot be repealled as the nimbys don't like it.

http://north-lakes-times.whereilive.com.au/news/story/covenant-re-think/

DEVELOPERS of new estates such as North Lakes are hoping new laws don’t destroy neighbourhood amenity for their clients.

Under pressure from the housing industry, the State Government is revising laws it introduced on January 1 that made covenants unenforceable.

The “Ban the banners” law stopped developers restricting homeowners in their choice of house features such as roof colours, external wall materials, number of bedrooms and bathrooms and use of solar hot water systems.

The revised laws will be ready in mid-year, but Minister for Infrastructure and Planning Stirling Hinchliffe was tight-lipped on how far the changes would go.

Meanwhile, North Lakes developer Stockland is sticking by its design guidelines.

Greater Brisbane regional manager for Stockland Natalie Moore said: “By designing your home in line with our recommendations, you are ensuring the quality of your living environment, protecting the value of your investment and complying with local council requirements.”

North Lakes resident Craig White, who is concerned the new laws will bring down his neighbourhood’s property values, welcomed the Government announcement.

“You go in and buy these houses because the houses have to be at a certain standard,” Mr White said.

“If that changed after the fact, then that’s a concern.

“It’s not really fair, I think.”

Urban Development Institute of Australia (Queensland) spokesman Brian Stewart commended the Government for the winding back of an “inappropriate intervention”.

I wasn't joking when I said developers could restrict you to building energy inefficient brick ovens. Utterly stupid, but that is how things usually are.

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable

Queensland recently passed a law that prevents covenants restricting things in such ways.

However, the following article suggests that a the law is going ot be repealled as the nimbys don't like it.

I wasn't joking when I said developers could restrict you to building energy inefficient brick ovens. Utterly stupid, but that is how things usually are.

That is pretty ******ing stupid.

I also remember reading about some old couple who were forced by law to have mains water installed, despite the fact that they liked their slightly salty well water that they'd been drinking forever. In the end they complied, but never used the mains tap.

And something on the radio about it being illegal in South Australia to fit a system which collects waste water from baths to then use for flushing toilets.

All a bit bonkers really.

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Guest X-QUORK

All a bit bonkers really.

Being aware of the environment probably isn't considered very macho.

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Guest Noodle

That is pretty ******ing stupid.

I also remember reading about some old couple who were forced by law to have mains water installed, despite the fact that they liked their slightly salty well water that they'd been drinking forever. In the end they complied, but never used the mains tap.

And something on the radio about it being illegal in South Australia to fit a system which collects waste water from baths to then use for flushing toilets.

All a bit bonkers really.

UK's not the only country with bonkers rules. The Danes are not permitted rain water harvesting systems because it will, so my Danish neighbour says, have an impact on the water utility firms revenue.

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Being aware of the environment probably isn't considered very macho.

In Australia, "biodegradable" means "it degrades the biome like nothing else, mate!"

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Queensland recently passed a law that prevents covenants restricting things in such ways.

However, the following article suggests that a the law is going ot be repealled as the nimbys don't like it.

Quote

http://north-lakes-t...enant-re-think/

DEVELOPERS of new estates such as North Lakes are hoping new laws don’t destroy neighbourhood amenity for their clients.

Under pressure from the housing industry, the State Government is revising laws it introduced on January 1 that made covenants unenforceable.

The “Ban the banners” law stopped developers restricting homeowners in their choice of house features such as roof colours, external wall materials, number of bedrooms and bathrooms and use of solar hot water systems.

The revised laws will be ready in mid-year, but Minister for Infrastructure and Planning Stirling Hinchliffe was tight-lipped on how far the changes would go.

Meanwhile, North Lakes developer Stockland is sticking by its design guidelines.

Greater Brisbane regional manager for Stockland Natalie Moore said: “By designing your home in line with our recommendations, you are ensuring the quality of your living environment, protecting the value of your investment and complying with local council requirements.”

North Lakes resident Craig White, who is concerned the new laws will bring down his neighbourhood’s property values, welcomed the Government announcement.

“You go in and buy these houses because the houses have to be at a certain standard,” Mr White said.

“If that changed after the fact, then that’s a concern.

“It’s not really fair, I think.”

Urban Development Institute of Australia (Queensland) spokesman Brian Stewart commended the Government for the winding back of an “inappropriate intervention”.

I wasn't joking when I said developers could restrict you to building energy inefficient brick ovens. Utterly stupid, but that is how things usually are.

Bardon, as the resident Aussie bull can you please offer some kind of defence here, otherwise I (and probably most people reading this) will be forced to assume that the Australian culture is even more shallow and moronic than I thought. Can it really be possible that significant numbers of people believe that solar water heating panels would "lower the tone" of their neighbourhood ?

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  • 140 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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