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rabbithole

Anecdotal Form The Front Line

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Hi all,

It's been years since I've posted here- I've been lurking a bit to keep up with the HPC news, and to reinforce the notion in my own head that there will be a crash or at least a healthy reduction in prices...it's hard sometimes being a house price bear (as I'm sure you all know) especially when most of your peers bought in the last 5 years and quite reasonably (?) look for anything to reinforce the notion in their heads that prices will not fall...it's only natural I guess, but sooo frustrating.

Any way, I'm going through something that might be of interest to the forum- (Mods: move to 'anecdotals' in due course).

Currently living in a 1 bed rental in a not too salubrious part of London- but less than 10mins to the city by overground. Flat's nice- Mrs is preggers though so we were thinking of moving to a bigger place (gotta love the flexibility of renting!)- but before I could ring the Landlord (nice bloke- always reliable) he rang me and gave us two months notice because he's selling up (fairly out of the blue)- so I ask him... out of interest, what he's putting it on the market for...

£250,000-... 'Interesting' I say...'he'll have trouble' I thought

First, he offered it to me off the market- fair enough- but in truth we couldn't/ wouldn't have got a mortgage for it-(and although i didn't mention it I wouldn't buy anything atm anyway).

I have maybe 15- 20K for a deposit which is not nearly enough when taking into account all the other costs of buying and our household income is ?only? 55,000K so we'd have to borrow over 4.5 salary. All that for a 1 bed in a shitty place that we wouldn't want to bring up a kid.

Meanwhile, we start looking for a two bed to rent and f%^k me it's expensive out there!! £1200pcm and upward (and that's for a tiny place with an 'open plan' kitchen/living room-or as I like to call it 'a sofa in the kitchen'... or shitty ex council/ student digs in New Cross or something).,. So we go for a £1300pcm one which was slightly more acceptable... We then have to get the whole Maras credit check thing done... It turns out that they look for you to be earning at least 4x the yearly rent (or in other words, the rent should be only 25% of your income)- in this case they would look for us to be earning 62,000 pa. Oh!

With a household income of 55k we can't 'afford' to rent at anything above 1145pcm!- so looks like we'll be looking further out of town for lower rent and paying a higher cost of travel (over all about the same monthly outgoings anyway and a lower standard of living with more time spent on a train!)

So a month went by and there have been all of two viewings on the place we're in at the mo- and I'm guessing no interest because the LL came round the other day with a new estate agent.

We get chatting and I tell him about the crazy rent- (we had a pretty good deal with him).

I say 'bl00dy hell, it's too expensive to buy, too expensive to rent- it's crazy out there'...

LL says 'I know- actually we're thinking of selling our other place as well- (he lives with his Mrs in Zone 1) we're pretty scared about this market at the moment.

EA says- 'Yes it's really tough out there..we are selling some but it's taking a really long time' Then to the LL- 'I think we should step out side and have a chat'. (probably gonna tell him to drop the price if he had any sense).

So there you go- too expensive to rent- too expensive to buy for a young (ish) couple on average wages having a kid and working in London- somethings gotta give!

RH

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Insane. It must feel great to know you're being outbid for accomodation by people on housing benefits.

Came across a landlady the other day who is asking £135k for her flat, while the lender has a possession order in place. The tenant offered £107k, which would clear the mortgage. She refused this, but has had no other offers. She reckons she can keep the bailiffs out by resuming the monthly instalments pending sale.

If the tenant stopped paying the game would be over, and chances are he'd have first dibs in a sale!

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Hi all,

It's been years since I've posted here- I've been lurking a bit to keep up with the HPC news, and to reinforce the notion in my own head that there will be a crash or at least a healthy reduction in prices...it's hard sometimes being a house price bear (as I'm sure you all know) especially when most of your peers bought in the last 5 years and quite reasonably (?) look for anything to reinforce the notion in their heads that prices will not fall...it's only natural I guess, but sooo frustrating.

Any way, I'm going through something that might be of interest to the forum- (Mods: move to 'anecdotals' in due course).

Currently living in a 1 bed rental in a not too salubrious part of London- but less than 10mins to the city by overground. Flat's nice- Mrs is preggers though so we were thinking of moving to a bigger place (gotta love the flexibility of renting!)- but before I could ring the Landlord (nice bloke- always reliable) he rang me and gave us two months notice because he's selling up (fairly out of the blue)- so I ask him... out of interest, what he's putting it on the market for...

£250,000-... 'Interesting' I say...'he'll have trouble' I thought

First, he offered it to me off the market- fair enough- but in truth we couldn't/ wouldn't have got a mortgage for it-(and although i didn't mention it I wouldn't buy anything atm anyway).

I have maybe 15- 20K for a deposit which is not nearly enough when taking into account all the other costs of buying and our household income is ?only? 55,000K so we'd have to borrow over 4.5 salary. All that for a 1 bed in a shitty place that we wouldn't want to bring up a kid.

Meanwhile, we start looking for a two bed to rent and f%^k me it's expensive out there!! £1200pcm and upward (and that's for a tiny place with an 'open plan' kitchen/living room-or as I like to call it 'a sofa in the kitchen'... or shitty ex council/ student digs in New Cross or something).,. So we go for a £1300pcm one which was slightly more acceptable... We then have to get the whole Maras credit check thing done... It turns out that they look for you to be earning at least 4x the yearly rent (or in other words, the rent should be only 25% of your income)- in this case they would look for us to be earning 62,000 pa. Oh!

With a household income of 55k we can't 'afford' to rent at anything above 1145pcm!- so looks like we'll be looking further out of town for lower rent and paying a higher cost of travel (over all about the same monthly outgoings anyway and a lower standard of living with more time spent on a train!)

So a month went by and there have been all of two viewings on the place we're in at the mo- and I'm guessing no interest because the LL came round the other day with a new estate agent.

We get chatting and I tell him about the crazy rent- (we had a pretty good deal with him).

I say 'bl00dy hell, it's too expensive to buy, too expensive to rent- it's crazy out there'...

LL says 'I know- actually we're thinking of selling our other place as well- (he lives with his Mrs in Zone 1) we're pretty scared about this market at the moment.

EA says- 'Yes it's really tough out there..we are selling some but it's taking a really long time' Then to the LL- 'I think we should step out side and have a chat'. (probably gonna tell him to drop the price if he had any sense).

So there you go- too expensive to rent- too expensive to buy for a young (ish) couple on average wages having a kid and working in London- somethings gotta give!

RH

Couldn't you rent somewhere by offering to pay the first 6 months up front to get around the 25% of salary problem?

I've recently been told that as long as you have a bank statement that shows you have have had enough cash in it for 6 months to cover the total rent for 6 months you are considered OK credit wise.

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Couldn't you rent somewhere by offering to pay the first 6 months up front to get around the 25% of salary problem?

I've recently been told that as long as you have a bank statement that shows you have have had enough cash in it for 6 months to cover the total rent for 6 months you are considered OK credit wise.

Nice- didn't think of that. It's not in the same bank- (they only check the current account) but that is a good idea- will look into it if I can.

I might also be able to get my Dad to be a guarantor but quite frankly it feels a bit crap to have to do that as I like to be able to stand on my own two feet!!

RH

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Nice- didn't think of that. It's not in the same bank- (they only check the current account) but that is a good idea- will look into it if I can.

I might also be able to get my Dad to be a guarantor but quite frankly it feels a bit crap to have to do that as I like to be able to stand on my own two feet!!

RH

Separate bank statements might be OK, they still show you have enough funds. If you aren't doing the normal credit check it's not as formal as using just one account. I've just taken on a new rental and as I have no income (and don't claim benefits) I expected to have to pay 6 months up front. In the end the agent just wanted to see a bank statement with 6 months rent in it and then they only asked for the usual 1 month in advance and a bond. One thing, the bank statement couldn't be something I had printed from the internet (open to forgery) it had to be an original bank statement.

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You really need to consider whether there would be any possibility of moving well away from London.

With a kid on the way you need a house and a garden.

You can achieve that for well under 100k if you look around.

Maybe your work seems to tie you to London, but maybe you will have a better quality of life if you just go and work for Tesco or someone elsewhere.

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You really need to consider whether there would be any possibility of moving well away from London.

With a kid on the way you need a house and a garden.

You can achieve that for well under 100k if you look around.

Maybe your work seems to tie you to London, but maybe you will have a better quality of life if you just go and work for Tesco or someone elsewhere.

Yeah- know what you mean- thing is all my family and friends ie: support network for the kid and people I want to be around are either in London or SE (which is just as expensive). both me an Mrs RH also expect our wages to increase the next 10 years in our current professions- working for 'Tesco or someone' might not have the same prospects.

However, it is a fair point and well worth considering properly.

RH

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If you don't mind a longer commute then living somewhere that isn't too close to the tube or a train station should allow you to get somewhere nice for below the £1145 mark. You could almost afford my place which is a nice modern four bedroom (3 doubles and a single) maisonette with a very big garden by London standards - we pay £1200 a month. When we were renegotiating our rent we found 3 beds with a garden in the area for a grand a month. We live in Roehampton and can get to Barnes overground in about 10 minutes, Putney Bridge in 15 and Hammersmith in 15-20 by bus - add maybe 10 minutes on for rush hour or 20 if traffic is really bad. A lot of people are put off by not having a tube/train station on their doorstep but you tend to get better bus services to compensate - we have three bus services within two minutes walk, two of which are 24 hour and within a ten minute walk there are another three bus routes.

And there are probably loads of areas in zone 2 where you can get a 2 bed for less than £1145, I've just had a look and you could afford Putney, Wandsworth (including near the train station which will get you to Waterloo in about 15 mins), Battersea etc. And this is just in the Wandsworth borough (which has the cheapest council tax in the country by the way).

Thanks for all the helpful replies-to be honest that wasn't really why I posted in the first place! I can figure most of this out for myself and will certainly find a suitable place to live with a little bit of effort and compromise- I think my OP might have had too much exposition (just trying to give some back ground info)-

The main point was to show you that my LL was SCARED and the EA agreed in front of said LL and in front of me that things were 'really tough'-

It's a good sign no?

None of the false optimism-houses only ever go up BS... just a frazzled looking EA agreeing that it al looked a bit s^^t out there. :)

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So there you go- too expensive to rent- too expensive to buy for a young (ish) couple on average wages having a kid and working in London- somethings gotta give!

RH

Serves you right for living in C London. 2 bed flat for rent 40 mins door-to-door in E Herts is £850/m. 3 bed is 950.

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Many thanks comrades!

I think you'll find the nulab word you are looking for is "colleagues"

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Serves you right for living in C London. 2 bed flat for rent 40 mins door-to-door in E Herts is £850/m. 3 bed is 950.

And the season ticket on the train? circa £3000 per year?

So that's 850pcm x12 = £10,200 + 2x£3000 travel = 16,200

1,300pcm x 12 = 15,600

Need I say more?

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And the season ticket on the train? circa £3000 per year?

So that's 850pcm x12 = £10,200 + 2x£3000 travel = 16,200

1,300pcm x 12 = 15,600

Need I say more?

Oh I do need to say more- I don't have any connection, Family/Friends living anywhere near Hearts- nice try-

still doesn't add up.

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Couldn't you rent somewhere by offering to pay the first 6 months up front to get around the 25% of salary problem?

I've recently been told that as long as you have a bank statement that shows you have have had enough cash in it for 6 months to cover the total rent for 6 months you are considered OK credit wise.

Sorry, but the bit in bold is real bad advice at this moment in time. Too many landlords are keeping the rent and not paying the mortgage. DO NOT pay up front!

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Oh I do need to say more- I don't have any connection, Family/Friends living anywhere near Hearts- nice try-

still doesn't add up.

And, TBH, it isn't that much less chaos outside of London. K, I live in Berkshire (but not Slough) ... and anywhere commutable to work costs about 1k/month for a 2 bed flat ... and the salaries don't match to London ... so maybe not 20% lower ... but it is still pretty rubbish/hard/overpriced outside of the M25. The salaries drop off quite quickly outside of the Metro area/deep SE/silicon valley of the M40/M25 corridor ... almost at the same speed as the rental drops off ...

So moving up country or outside the London rat race doesn't change the fact that the Allsops/Boveys/Browns/etc muppets have really made hay in the taxpayer sunshine. And transport is horribly over priced ... and getting a seat is something beyond what you are paying for (apparently!).

Quality of life might be higher outside of London if the hubbub isn't really your thing but if you are a strongly 'people person' it is the friendships and life-value-adding people that do add a real (but hard to measure) difference. Just MHO ...

Aidanapword

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Sorry, but the bit in bold is real bad advice at this moment in time. Too many landlords are keeping the rent and not paying the mortgage. DO NOT pay up front!

Never mind the fact that if a reasonable person on a reasonable wage cannot afford even a 'rabbithole' the rent is too high. I know I am being wildly unrealistic ... but all this rubbish about rental affordability is (arguably) just the pwoperdee tie-koons passing on the risk (blaming persons who rent) of the current bubble-pooping context.

Aidanapword

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Sorry, but the bit in bold is real bad advice at this moment in time. Too many landlords are keeping the rent and not paying the mortgage. DO NOT pay up front!

I know it's not ideal but given some circumstances it might be the only option. I assume it's safer when paying the rent via an agent rather than just directly to a private landlord.

How can you find out if there are any bad debts on a property?

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Sorry, but the bit in bold is real bad advice at this moment in time. Too many landlords are keeping the rent and not paying the mortgage. DO NOT pay up front!

If you can get legal protection for six months up front it's not so bad.

So maybe make an offer of that as deposit, to be covered by the TDS?

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If you can get legal protection for six months up front it's not so bad.

So maybe make an offer of that as deposit, to be covered by the TDS?

They'll be unlikely to go for it. IIRC If the deposit + contract legal fees + application fees are even a penny greater that 1.5x the monthly rent then you have the right to sublet the property even if the contract says you don't (any such term is simply void). In this climate few landlords will be willing to let their property in a situation where anyone can take a tenancy there without them having any consideration.

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Sorry, but the bit in bold is real bad advice at this moment in time. Too many landlords are keeping the rent and not paying the mortgage. DO NOT pay up front!

In the past I have paid 6 months "up front" rent not necessarily for credit worthiness reasons but to negotiate a reduced initial monthly rent from the outset.

I you looked at the Land Registry database and saw that the landlord had owned the property for a number of years I would have thought that the chance of him/her defaulting would be small. Also, 6 months soon passes and even if you were unlucky enough to be repossessed the day you moved in, the legal machinations could take a few months.

Having said that, in these straightened times, the risks are probably not worth it unless you know your landlord's circumstances well.

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>£1200 pcm for RENT!? Wow, that is just under 3/4 of my take-home pay!! Absolutely ridiculous.

And you should see what that gets you!- Of course I spllt it 50/50 with the Mrs but still it's higher than it's ever been-

If no one can buy they have to rent and with increased rental demand prices go up...we're at record levels atm and I can't see them going down any time soon.

This is the problem with earning around 'average wages' in London- you don't get near to an 'average standard of living'.

Of course our standard of living is pretty high by world standards- but still.

Edited by rabbithole

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Interesting that only 2 viewings. Keep us updated on the viewings and hope you find somewhere acceptable to rent. Are you out East London way if 10 mins on overground from City?

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  • 244 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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