Is It Any Wonder People Don't Want To Take Nmw Jobs?

[Boom Boom]

Full JSA £65 a week

Housing benefit to cover accommodation costs with private landlord or council house

Council tax exemption

Working 40 hours a week on NMW

£200 a week take home

£135 after JSA entitlement lost is deducted

£70 after £65 is deducted to cover rent

£50 after £15 is deducted to cover travel costs

£35 after £15 deducted for council tax (and that's assuming lowest possible band which is unlikely)

£25 after £10 is deducted for sundry expenses associated with being in employment

So 40 hours of mind numbing toil, plus all the travel time to and from work, to be based on optimistic calculations £30 a week better off. £30 which has to provide for the expectations someone working full time may feel entitled to, like a social life, or a few luxuries. Frankly, it's a credit to the work ethic that is ingrained in society that anyone will work for NMW. Financially, it's almost universally a bad decision.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Boom Boom

[crash2006]

Full JSA £65 a week

Housing benefit to cover accommodation costs with private landlord or council house

Council tax exemption

Working 40 hours a week on NMW

£200 a week take home

£135 after JSA entitlement lost is deducted

£70 after £60 is deducted to cover rent

£55 after £15 is deducted to cover travel costs

£40 after £15 deducted for council tax (and that's assuming lowest possible band which is unlikely)

£30 after £10 is deducted for sundry expenses associated with being in employment

So 40 hours of mind numbing toil, plus all the travel time to and from work, to be based on optimistic calculations £30 a week better off. £30 which has to provide for the expectations someone working full time may feel entitled to, like a social life, or a few luxuries. Frankly, it's a credit to the work ethic that is ingrained in society that anyone will work for NMW. Financially, it's almost universally a bad decision.

ofcourse it is, the major impact would be to have social homes, no social homes means less people willing to work for Min wage.

[Wario]

Full JSA £65 a week

Housing benefit to cover accommodation costs with private landlord or council house

Council tax exemption A biggie.

So 40 hours of mind numbing toil, plus all the travel time to and from work, to be based on optimistic calculations £30 a week better off. £30 which has to provide for the expectations someone working full time may feel entitled to, like a social life, or a few luxuries. Frankly, it's a credit to the work ethic that is ingrained in society that anyone will work for NMW. Financially, it's almost universally a bad decision.

From my "Heritage Doley Experience" under Sailor Ted, Sunny Jim and That Bloody Woman, it'd have to be the rock'n'roll every time.

Thing is, you can defeat the intention of the system, and survive a whole winter and more with your health intact, simply by staying under a pile of bedding all day, so you're not crucified by the gas and electric, and keeping quality food, or any food at all, to an absolute minimum (tea is a life-saver, we found. Tea and rollups (baccy puts you right off your grub, it's the secret (among many) of how we were all so goddamn thin and dropdead gorgeous back then )).

No fridge, no washing machine, only turn the gas oven on in the hardest bit of winter. Fill the buggger with bricks and sit/slouch/huddle round it in army-surplus greatcoats playing poker and (paper!)D&D and supping homebrew etc. No 'phone, no heating, no lighting, no telly, no sodding baths needed (obviously, since the water was free back then, we could indulge in cold ones of a summer morn. Keep interview clothes and so on clean, by simply not wearing any clothes not required for survival inside the bedsit/squat/abandoned factory. Genius!

Shoes don't wear out if you've got your feet up. Used to very pricey. Travel costs (invariably the bus, bike not a sensible proposition) are the real killer when working. That and the hypothermia, bronchitis and rheumatism waiting for it to show up. And free dentistry, always a lifesaving bonus.

To Make Work Pay©The Quiet Bald Man I'd reckon you'd have to double the IngSoc MiniWage

[Boom Boom]

From my "Heritage Doley Experience" under Sailor Ted, Sunny Jim and That Bloody Woman, it'd have to be the rock'n'roll every time.

Thing is, you can defeat the intention of the system, and survive a whole winter and more with your health intact, simply by staying under a pile of bedding all day, so you're not crucified by the gas and electric, and keeping quality food, or any food at all, to an absolute minimum (tea is a life-saver, we found. Tea and rollups (baccy puts you right off your grub, it's the secret (among many) of how we were all so goddamn thin and dropdead gorgeous back then )).

No fridge, no washing machine, only turn the gas oven on in the hardest bit of winter. Fill the buggger with bricks and sit/slouch/huddle round it in army-surplus greatcoats playing poker and (paper!)D&D and supping homebrew etc. No 'phone, no heating, no lighting, no telly, no sodding baths needed (obviously, since the water was free back then, we could indulge in cold ones of a summer morn. Keep interview clothes and so on clean, by simply not wearing any clothes not required for survival inside the bedsit/squat/abandoned factory. Genius!

Shoes don't wear out if you've got your feet up. Used to very pricey. Travel costs (invariably the bus, bike not a sensible proposition) are the real killer when working. That and the hypothermia, bronchitis and rheumatism waiting for it to show up. And free dentistry, always a lifesaving bonus.

To Make Work Pay©The Quiet Bald Man I'd reckon you'd have to double the IngSoc MiniWage

'War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength'

Sums up NuLabia quite nicely I think. Having abandoned any real ideology they clearly found inspiration in parody.

[ken_ichikawa]

Full JSA £65 a week

Housing benefit to cover accommodation costs with private landlord or council house

Council tax exemption

Working 40 hours a week on NMW

£200 a week take home

£135 after JSA entitlement lost is deducted

£70 after £60 is deducted to cover rent

£55 after £15 is deducted to cover travel costs

£40 after £15 deducted for council tax (and that's assuming lowest possible band which is unlikely)

£30 after £10 is deducted for sundry expenses associated with being in employment

So 40 hours of mind numbing toil, plus all the travel time to and from work, to be based on optimistic calculations £30 a week better off. £30 which has to provide for the expectations someone working full time may feel entitled to, like a social life, or a few luxuries. Frankly, it's a credit to the work ethic that is ingrained in society that anyone will work for NMW. Financially, it's almost universally a bad decision.

Your costs are too optimistic, I took the metrolink into Manchester yesterday and it cost me £5 for a return or £4.85 for a single. Ergo your £15 travel cost should be £25... add in the fact I live a few miles from the metro means a weekly/monthly bus ticket and it is closer to £45 a week.

Rent is also wayy too low

Same with council tax.

[bomberbrown]

Full JSA £65 a week

Housing benefit to cover accommodation costs with private landlord or council house

Council tax exemption

Working 40 hours a week on NMW

£200 a week take home

£135 after JSA entitlement lost is deducted

£70 after £60 is deducted to cover rent

£55 after £15 is deducted to cover travel costs

£40 after £15 deducted for council tax (and that's assuming lowest possible band which is unlikely)

£30 after £10 is deducted for sundry expenses associated with being in employment

So 40 hours of mind numbing toil, plus all the travel time to and from work, to be based on optimistic calculations £30 a week better off. £30 which has to provide for the expectations someone working full time may feel entitled to, like a social life, or a few luxuries. Frankly, it's a credit to the work ethic that is ingrained in society that anyone will work for NMW. Financially, it's almost universally a bad decision.

Is that a joke? (rhetorical question) Your £200 take home pay wouldn't even cover the rent in some parts of South East London and I'm not talking Westminster or Chelsea here.

[Johnny Storm]

I remember earning £120 a week and having loads to spend.

£120 a week

£15 board

Rest to spend. Live with your parents.

Is that a joke? (rhetorical question) Your £200 take home pay wouldn't even cover the rent in some parts of South East London and I'm not talking Westminster or Chelsea here.

Why do people with no skills need to live in London?

Edited July 31, 2010 by Johnny Storm

[Olebrum]

Why do people with no skills need to live in London?

I doubt they 'need' to live there. More likely they happen to live there or, if they are a bit odd, like living there!

There should build a big slum where they can all live and be shipped in to London to perform their

NMW jobs and then be shipped back in the evenings. Far away from the highly skilled elites who populate

our wonderful capital city.

[Meat Puppet]

Why do people with no skills need to live in London?

I like the fact that there are some people cleaning up the place, and the guy that delivers my groceries is pretty handy as well.

[Minos]

I doubt they 'need' to live there. More likely they happen to live there or, if they are a bit odd, like living there!

There should build a big slum where they can all live and be shipped in to London to perform their

NMW jobs and then be shipped back in the evenings. Far away from the highly skilled elites who populate

our wonderful capital city.

I think they are working on that right now. Reducing HB, driving the non elites out of expensive areas and into accomodation more suitable to their stature.

[bomberbrown]

Why do people with no skills need to live in London?

Who else is going to serve that corporate w@anker his Starbucks latte and Pret et Manger sandwich?

[deflation]

What about food? There's also electricity, gas etc. You also deducted £15 from £60 to get £55. You would starve.

You have to live at parents' home or be in shared (whether with a 'partner' or not) / multi occupancy to live on NMW.

If you are in work though, there are working tax credits to boost income.

JSA has a time limit to it though, doesn't it?

[miko]

Fact you can not afford to travel to work and run a home on the NMW, people on this are either the second income in the household or living with parents , you would even be hard pushed just to rent a bed sit.

[steve99]

In relation to London, pre the EE's all being invited over to improve our standard of living, many McJobs in central London paid much more than todays min wage, in fact I knew people making coffee or working in Top shop and getting 8ph or so, since then and 10 years later we have people doing the very same jobs for min wage or there abouts. If you then take into account the price of everything doubling more or less since then you now have an extremely poor working population at the bottom end of the pool. Seems employers have to be subsidised in some way or other to get away with this, obviously the importation of EE's was a sop to them after complaining non stop to NuLab about having to be subject to market forces,ie wage rises. Perhaps if the Torries cut the dole we can get the rest of em off their ar*ses

[deflation]

He quite rightly deducted £15 from £70 to get £55. He's not including food and bills because he's working out how much better off he would be working on minimum wage than being on benefits - food and bills other than council tax already come out of the £65 JSA.

Apologies, I misread it. The error is in deducting £60 for rent from £135 leaving £70.

I understand it's a comparison but then there is no coverall situation. If you have children, there is child benefit income. If you have no relatives nearby, there may be child care costs if the hours are unsociable, etc. Working tax credit, free food or drink at work? No heating required at home if you're out all day (unless you have a partner at home).

The case the OP makes is valid but is simplifying it.

[durhamborn]

He quite rightly deducted £15 from £70 to get £55. He's not including food and bills because he's working out how much better off he would be working on minimum wage than being on benefits - food and bills other than council tax already come out of the £65 JSA.

It was always so.BUT something huge changed,and its what this sites is about.A HOME.When i started out i was in a bit better situation than if it was now as i earned around 20% above what would be now the NMW.BUT i could buy a terrace house for £30k.Once that was paid off id of been much better off working for NMW.The fact is all cash benefits are low its the housing benefit that puts them up to NMW level.

Slowly this has erroded peoples aspirations.Before youd know,ok buy ,pay off,have decent life even on low wages.Not now.

[durhamborn]

Apologies, I misread it. The error is in deducting £60 for rent from £135 leaving £70.

I understand it's a comparison but then there is no coverall situation. If you have children, there is child benefit income. If you have no relatives nearby, there may be child care costs if the hours are unsociable, etc. Working tax credit, free food or drink at work? No heating required at home if you're out all day (unless you have a partner at home).

The case the OP makes is valid but is simplifying it.

Indeed,but the fact everyone even has to consider it shows the system is broke.No economy can survive where someone who works 40 hours a week is peanuts better off,or worse off than people not working.

Only answer.Lower benefits,higher wages,cheaper housing.

[Laughing Gnome]

Working 40 hours a week on NMW

£200 a week take home

£135 after JSA entitlement lost is deducted

£70 after £60 is deducted to cover rent

£55 after £15 is deducted to cover travel costs

£40 after £15 deducted for council tax (and that's assuming lowest possible band which is unlikely)

£30 after £10 is deducted for sundry expenses associated with being in employment

I don't dissagree with your general point, but you have the major cost absolutely wrong.

In my part of the world, the crummiest most horrible prison cell like bedsit in a junkie and alkie infested building would be AT LEAST £75 / week.

Rent is by FAR the biggest cost, and the most easily addressed by allowing councils to invest in housing stock.

[Fudge]

NMW raises to £5.93 per hour in October which is £222.37 for a 37.5 hour week.

However you cannot presume you will work a 37.5 hour week, most jobs now are part time or they call you when they are busy and tell you to go home when they are not so you maybe working 20 hours or 27 hours.

I know I have done it. They ring you up and say we dont need you today.

They dont because they just took someone else on and giving them a couple of days work a week.

Also I know with jobs like cleaning you may work 50 hours a week but only get paid for 37.5 so on the wage slip it looks correct 37.5 x 5.93 = £222.37

but you actually worked many more hours. And if you dont like it there are plenty of people who are desperate enough to do it.

I am afraid these are the consequences of being duped into thinking that you dont need unions anymore.

Workers are being exploited.

[miko]

I like the fact that there are some people cleaning up the place, and the guy that delivers my groceries is pretty handy as well.

lol bang on

I don't think the poster that you answered has enough brain cells to work that one out.

[tomwatkins]

Indeed,but the fact everyone even has to consider it shows the system is broke.No economy can survive where someone who works 40 hours a week is peanuts better off,or worse off than people not working.

Only answer.Lower benefits,higher wages,cheaper housing.

Can't happen.

[tomwatkins]

NMW raises to £5.93 per hour in October which is £222.37 for a 37.5 hour week.

However you cannot presume you will work a 37.5 hour week, most jobs now are part time or they call you when they are busy and tell you to go home when they are not so you maybe working 20 hours or 27 hours.

I know I have done it. They ring you up and say we dont need you today.

They dont because they just took someone else on and giving them a couple of days work a week.

Also I know with jobs like cleaning you may work 50 hours a week but only get paid for 37.5 so on the wage slip it looks correct 37.5 x 5.93 = £222.37

but you actually worked many more hours. And if you dont like it there are plenty of people who are desperate enough to do it.

I am afraid these are the consequences of being duped into thinking that you dont need unions anymore.

Workers are being exploited.

I have no problem with the union concept per se. It's just that it breeds so many arrogant, overpaid gobsh!tes at the top. Why is that do you reckon?

[tomwatkins]

I don't dissagree with your general point, but you have the major cost absolutely wrong.

In my part of the world, the crummiest most horrible prison cell like bedsit in a junkie and alkie infested building would be AT LEAST £75 / week.

Rent is by FAR the biggest cost, and the most easily addressed by allowing councils to invest in housing stock.

Hindsight eh? I wonder if Maggie would have sold all that good housing stock for a couple of grand apiece had she known. Has anybody ever asked her that question? Pointless I guess and maybe you wouldn't get a true answer even if she could remember.

[SarahBell]

Your costs are too optimistic, I took the metrolink into Manchester yesterday and it cost me £5 for a return or £4.85 for a single. Ergo your £15 travel cost should be £25... add in the fact I live a few miles from the metro means a weekly/monthly bus ticket and it is closer to £45 a week.

Rent is also wayy too low

Same with council tax.

Tram Travel is dear!

Departure Station

:

Bury

Arrival Station

:

Piccadilly Gardens

Ticket Type

:

Adult Weekly

This ticket costs: £21.80

Annual is This ticket costs: £875.00

But First:

FirstMonth, £ 55.00

Unlimited* travel on day of purchase and for a further 30 days. Tickets vaild for the whole network.

Annual Ticket, £ 550.00

Stagecoach

Manchester Megarider 4 Week £40.00

[okaycuckoo]

Full JSA £65 a week

Housing benefit to cover accommodation costs with private landlord or council house

Council tax exemption

Working 40 hours a week on NMW

£200 a week take home

£135 after JSA entitlement lost is deducted

£70 after £65 is deducted to cover rent

£50 after £15 is deducted to cover travel costs

£35 after £15 deducted for council tax (and that's assuming lowest possible band which is unlikely)

£25 after £10 is deducted for sundry expenses associated with being in employment

So 40 hours of mind numbing toil, plus all the travel time to and from work, to be based on optimistic calculations £30 a week better off. £30 which has to provide for the expectations someone working full time may feel entitled to, like a social life, or a few luxuries. Frankly, it's a credit to the work ethic that is ingrained in society that anyone will work for NMW. Financially, it's almost universally a bad decision.

What about tax credits? They probably bump up the monthly take-home income quite a bit.