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Guest growl

The Tory Leadership -ken Clarke?

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Guest growl

Having just heard Ken Clarke rambling on in his big speach today I have to say that the man is barmy if he thinks he will become the next leader of the Tory party. Which make me wonder...is he a red herring.

We've had them before and usually when we have a strong candidtate they end up losing.

He put much in his speach which seemed to me to guarantee him losing, and I don't think he is that stupid. <_<

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Or a "smoking gun" He has earned a million biscuits since he started work for British American Tobacco.

Obvious fodder for the labour spin guns

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Guest growl
Or a "smoking gun" He has earned a million biscuits since he started work for British American Tobacco.

Obvious fodder for the labour spin guns

Exactly. He cannot seriously think he would win a tory leadership after once sharing a stand with Bliar over the Euro. You just can't change tack like that and just drop your Tobacco interests. It just smacks of opportunism which is what he is accusing Labour of.

He was a brilliant chancelor. But he has had his day.

I reckon Goerge will win if not Davis and I think Clarke is just a red herring, as as you say a smoking gun or could we say a loose cannon even?

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Having just heard Ken Clarke rambling on in his big speach today I have to say that the man is barmy if he thinks he will become the next leader of the Tory party. Which make me wonder...is he a red herring.

I don't think so, if you consider the average age of a voter now days... he's appealing to those who want the good old days, and todays Times reported that 2/3rds of local party chairmen / women would prefer him as leader.

To a point I agree, politics has been lacking a character for years, tho the sudden change of opinion on europe worries me.

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To a point I agree, politics has been lacking a character for years, tho the sudden change of opinion on europe worries me.

That's the thing though. Yes he is a character and the media definetly like him. But I felt like he was saying stuff to get himself unvoted. I'm surprised that so many in the party according to the media want him. As a Tory its not what I'm hearing, and many people I talk to are not fooled by his change of tack on the Euro.

Today Liam Fox entered the race. A most uncharasimatic candidate you could hope for. He makes IDS and Major look like something resembling 'wit'.

I have a theory. These people have entered so that Tories will say to themselves 'Oh no not him!...Lets vote for the other guy'.

Then it will become a two horse race between Davies and David Cameron.

Then we have Tebbit stirring again. Some one needs to boot him. :rolleyes:

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Guest growl

Then it will become a two horse race between Davies and David Cameron.

Now I'm thinking that today they may boot Clarkie...then again they may boot David Davis.

Why?

He's been dripping poison.

I've certainly gone off him since the conference. He was acting too cocky and now with his sly comments at David Cameron. It leaves a bad taste.

My money is on David Cameron. :)

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Ken Clarke is the only one of the 4 who was against the Iraq ware but he does have controversial links with BAT and he is old and a Tory Dinosaur.

David Cameron does seem appealing but he supported the Iraq war and although he may have a certain amount of charisma, that does not necesserily mean he has any substance, in fact people with charisma often have no substance - like Tony Blair for example and he could become "Tory Blair".

I like Liam Fox's concern about domestic violence and mental health but dont think right wingers like him or David Davis will get any more votes for the Tories and they both supported the Iraq war.

Conclusion - none of them are any good but suspect Cameron will win.

Now I'm thinking that today they may boot Clarkie...then again they may boot David Davis.

Why?

He's been dripping poison.

I've certainly gone off him since the conference. He was acting too cocky and now with his sly comments at David Cameron. It leaves a bad taste.

My money is on David Cameron. :)

Apparently some David Davis supporters will tactically vote for Liam Fox to kick Clarke out in the first round.

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He may seem charming but remember that Blair seemed charming too (probably still does to some people), but as soon as they get in power they do what they like.

Expect him to be a total <insert swear word of choice here> if he ever gets power.

Personally, I think it's too late for him.

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He may seem charming but remember that Blair seemed charming too (probably still does to some people), but as soon as they get in power they do what they like.

Expect him to be a total <insert swear word of choice here> if he ever gets power.

Personally, I think it's too late for him.

Unusually high levels of charm is characteristic of someone with a narcissist personality disorder which some have said that Blair has and possibly Cameron.

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Guest growl

Unusually high levels of charm is characteristic of someone with a narcissist personality disorder which some have said that Blair has and possibly Cameron.

Do you have a personality disorder? :)

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Do you have a personality disorder? :)

Your going off topic for this thread but i could write a book on this subject if you really wanted me to. Very briefly, roughly a quarter of the population have some sort of personality disorder (psychopathy, narcissism, attention seeking etc). They cause mayhem by abusing, bullying and doing the heads in of the rest of the population, causing emotional injury etc. Most "mental illness" is really just emotional injury caused by people with personality disorders. So on that basis yes, having been bullied myself a few times by people with personality disorders, I am "mentally ill" and proud of it - but so are about half of the population. But I certainly do not have a personality disorder.

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Your going off topic for this thread but i could write a book on this subject if you really wanted me to. Very briefly, roughly a quarter of the population have some sort of personality disorder (psychopathy, narcissism, attention seeking etc). They cause mayhem by abusing, bullying and doing the heads in of the rest of the population, causing emotional injury etc. Most "mental illness" is really just emotional injury caused by people with personality disorders. So on that basis yes, having been bullied myself a few times by people with personality disorders, I am "mentally ill" and proud of it - but so are about half of the population. But I certainly do not have a personality disorder.

Yes, yes..I've been to your site. I've told you that before.

I should have elaborated more. It just seems to me that when you don't like someone in the public eye you immediately label them as either being pcycotic or narscistic. That meant Icould not take you as seriously as before and wondered if you had a disorder yourself.

Just because someone is charming does not mean they 'probably ...have a disorder' as in David Camerons case. He's just charming, its called manners.

I believe that you have an imbalanced opinion of people through your bad experiences. In other words I believe you are paranoid.

I've met many bullies in my life and some really wierd and nasty people. but there are a lot of nice people and some of them are politicians and people of power, strange as that may seem.

I believe that it is just as dangerous to label people off hand.

and to come totally back on topic.

Huray Clarkie is out! :lol:

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I do not know about a red herring anymore. But after todays 38 votes he has certainly been done up like a kipper :D

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I do not know about a red herring anymore. But after todays 38 votes he has certainly been done up like a kipper :D

He certainly has. But Cameron needs more than Clarkies votes to win.

Davis is still in the lead despite the press talking him down.

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Yes, yes..I've been to your site. I've told you that before.

I should have elaborated more. It just seems to me that when you don't like someone in the public eye you immediately label them as either being pcycotic or narscistic. That meant Icould not take you as seriously as before and wondered if you had a disorder yourself.

Just because someone is charming does not mean they 'probably ...have a disorder' as in David Camerons case. He's just charming, its called manners.

I believe that you have an imbalanced opinion of people through your bad experiences. In other words I believe you are paranoid.

I've met many bullies in my life and some really wierd and nasty people. but there are a lot of nice people and some of them are politicians and people of power, strange as that may seem.

I believe that it is just as dangerous to label people off hand.

and to come totally back on topic.

Huray Clarkie is out! :lol:

On a previous post in this thread I say "Unusually high levels of charm is characteristic of someone with a narcissist personality disorder which some have said that Blair has and possibly Cameron."

I did not say that Blair has a narcisistic personality disorder. I said that some have said so. I could give you quite a few internet links supporting this view. I have not said that myself although this idea sounds compelling. There is quite a rigourous psychological test for this. I also said that Cameron POSSIBLY has this disorder. So how am I labelling anyone offhand when I am not labelling anybody ?

Also where do I say that all politicians have personality disorders ? Many are gullible voting fodder but they probably have to be to function in the current political system.

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On a previous post in this thread I say "Unusually high levels of charm is characteristic of someone with a narcissist personality disorder which some have said that Blair has and possibly Cameron."

I did not say that Blair has a narcisistic personality disorder. I said that some have said so. I could give you quite a few internet links supporting this view. I have not said that myself although this idea sounds compelling. There is quite a rigourous psychological test for this. I also said that Cameron POSSIBLY has this disorder. So how am I labelling anyone offhand when I am not labelling anybody ?

Also where do I say that all politicians have personality disorders ? Many are gullible voting fodder but they probably have to be to function in the current political system.

Thanks I don't need the links. When I visited your site over a month ago, I spent the best part of a weekend jumping through all of your links. Well most of them. I think that even if you say that someone possibly has a disorder, that can be enough to plant the seed. I came to the conclusion that you were labeling politicians since you had said this about other politicians in other posts on other threads. George Bush was another.

Now look...we could pick holes in each others posts on specific words all day and all night...and in the end I believe we would agree more than disagree. In a way you remind me of myself a few years ago, when my life seemed to be full of backstabbing nutters. I include family, work collegues and so called freinds. After a while it can get to the point where you just don't trust anyone. That can be corrosive in its self.

Now I'm surrounded by a bunch of very nice people. But it takes a while(sometimes years) to get to that lucky point.

What I'm saying is that there are many decent people on the planet. Some with power. Otherwise we would live in complete anarchy and chaos.

One thing. We don't know enough about Cameron to be labeling or hinting at his persanality one way or the other yet. My gut feeling tells me he's ok. My gut has usually been correct in the past about most people(the problem is we don't listen to it).

The worrying thing is that my gut feeling is telling me there is something very nasty about Davis. But as well as my gut, I base this on his comments about Camerons speech at the conference. When asked about it he said. 'what speech?' in a realy put down and peevish way. Also while saying that he is not trying to exploit the drugs question concerning Cameron, he was planting seeds of doubt in the press and talking up anti drugs especially to do with the middle classes.

Now untill a couple of months ago I would have voted Davis. Not knowing much about Cameron, or seeing the personality of Davis. I only went off his political stands. But you can get alot about how a person is when they are dealing with what will ultimately be a working collegue.

Its easy and expected that when in politics you try to undermine your political opponents. But when you do it to your own lot...well it says alot about what kind of person you are. ;)

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Thanks I don't need the links. When I visited your site over a month ago, I spent the best part of a weekend jumping through all of your links. Well most of them. I think that even if you say that someone possibly has a disorder, that can be enough to plant the seed. I came to the conclusion that you were labeling politicians since you had said this about other politicians in other posts on other threads. George Bush was another.

Now look...we could pick holes in each others posts on specific words all day and all night...and in the end I believe we would agree more than disagree. In a way you remind me of myself a few years ago, when my life seemed to be full of backstabbing nutters. I include family, work collegues and so called freinds. After a while it can get to the point where you just don't trust anyone. That can be corrosive in its self.

Now I'm surrounded by a bunch of very nice people. But it takes a while(sometimes years) to get to that lucky point.

What I'm saying is that there are many decent people on the planet. Some with power. Otherwise we would live in complete anarchy and chaos.

One thing. We don't know enough about Cameron to be labeling or hinting at his persanality one way or the other yet. My gut feeling tells me he's ok. My gut has usually been correct in the past about most people(the problem is we don't listen to it).

The worrying thing is that my gut feeling is telling me there is something very nasty about Davis. But as well as my gut, I base this on his comments about Camerons speech at the conference. When asked about it he said. 'what speech?' in a realy put down and peevish way. Also while saying that he is not trying to exploit the drugs question concerning Cameron, he was planting seeds of doubt in the press and talking up anti drugs especially to do with the middle classes.

Now untill a couple of months ago I would have voted Davis. Not knowing much about Cameron, or seeing the personality of Davis. I only went off his political stands. But you can get alot about how a person is when they are dealing with what will ultimately be a working collegue.

Its easy and expected that when in politics you try to undermine your political opponents. But when you do it to your own lot...well it says alot about what kind of person you are. ;)

What my site says is that only a small minority of people are evil but they easily create bullying cultures that corrupt and suck in others to do their dirty work. Most people may be intrinsically "nice" but they are still generally gullible. For example, just almost every German over the age of 14 were brainwashed into being willing to sacrifice their lives for Hitler and kill without mercy.

When you get to heads of state, Blair, Bush etc I think the incidence of personality disorders shoots up over the average politician.

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Guest growl

What my site says is that only a small minority of people are evil but they easily create bullying cultures that corrupt and suck in others to do their dirty work. Most people may be intrinsically "nice" but they are still generally gullible. For example, just almost every German over the age of 14 were brainwashed into being willing to sacrifice their lives for Hitler and kill without mercy.

Mostly agree.

When you get to heads of state, Blair, Bush etc I think the incidence of personality disorders shoots up over the average politician.

I differ in this.

This thread is in danger of of turning into a discussion about disorders, and evil people and the like.

So back to Cameron and politics.

Whats the betting that Cameron will scoop up Clarkies votes?

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What my site says is that only a small minority of people are evil but they easily create bullying cultures that corrupt and suck in others to do their dirty work. Most people may be intrinsically "nice" but they are still generally gullible. For example, just almost every German over the age of 14 were brainwashed into being willing to sacrifice their lives for Hitler and kill without mercy.

When you get to heads of state, Blair, Bush etc I think the incidence of personality disorders shoots up over the average politician.

I've taken this (or parts of it), about Blair,from "Angry Harry" (website):

"Psychopath?

If you had maimed and killed thousands of people because your employees had given you bad information, wouldn't you be furious?

Horrified?

Appalled?

Miserable?

Tony Blair wasn't.

Would you not be begging daily for forgiveness for not having made sure that your staff had been doing their jobs properly?

Tony Blair isn't.

Would you not have sacked those incompetents who had misled you and the nation so badly, and so horribly?

Tony Blair hasn't. In fact, he promoted the man most responsible to the head of MI6.

Tony Blair has maimed and killed thousands of people on the basis of, at best, terrible mistakes and, at worst, on the basis of downright lies.

But he shows no remorse.

He has not resigned.

He has no regrets.

And he still smiles a lot.

Tell me. How would you feel if you had maimed and killed thousands of people under such circumstances?

Pretty grim, I would imagine.

But not Tony Blair.

No Sirree.

On the contrary.

Even though it is quite clear that the UK is now far more likely to be the target of terrorism as a result of his continued presence as prime minister, he carries on regardless.

He doesn't care.

Indeed, if he possessed even an ounce of integrity, he would have resigned.

And yet some of you still think that polite conversations with people such as him are all that is needed to alert politicians to the real problems that men face concerning, say, false allegations, child custody and so on.

But you are living in a dream world. People like him do not give a hoot for what happens to you.

Do you really think that a bunch of politicians who will maim and kill people without remorse or regret are ever going to be concerned about your comparatively trivial problems?

These people have only one concern on their minds.

Their own self-advancement."

Could not have put it better myself.

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Mostly agree.

I differ in this.

This thread is in danger of of turning into a discussion about disorders, and evil people and the like.

So back to Cameron and politics.

Whats the betting that Cameron will scoop up Clarkies votes?

Personality disorders range from psychopathic murders to fairly harmless attention seekers with everything in between. I did say that Blair was probably a narcissist not a psychopath, although there is quite a lot of overlap. The case can easily be made that Blair has indirectly contributed to the killing of about 100,000 innocent Iraqi civilains. Blair honestly thinks he is doing us a favour and is sincere although he is misguided and self-righteous.

Obviously we dont know much about Cameron yet but quite a lot of the media are talking about him as a Tony Blair clone.

I've taken this (or parts of it), about Blair,from "Angry Harry" (website):

"Psychopath?

If you had maimed and killed thousands of people because your employees had given you bad information, wouldn't you be furious?

Horrified?

Appalled?

Miserable?

Tony Blair wasn't.

Would you not be begging daily for forgiveness for not having made sure that your staff had been doing their jobs properly?

Tony Blair isn't.

Would you not have sacked those incompetents who had misled you and the nation so badly, and so horribly?

Tony Blair hasn't. In fact, he promoted the man most responsible to the head of MI6.

Tony Blair has maimed and killed thousands of people on the basis of, at best, terrible mistakes and, at worst, on the basis of downright lies.

But he shows no remorse.

He has not resigned.

He has no regrets.

And he still smiles a lot.

Tell me. How would you feel if you had maimed and killed thousands of people under such circumstances?

Pretty grim, I would imagine.

But not Tony Blair.

No Sirree.

On the contrary.

Even though it is quite clear that the UK is now far more likely to be the target of terrorism as a result of his continued presence as prime minister, he carries on regardless.

He doesn't care.

Indeed, if he possessed even an ounce of integrity, he would have resigned.

And yet some of you still think that polite conversations with people such as him are all that is needed to alert politicians to the real problems that men face concerning, say, false allegations, child custody and so on.

But you are living in a dream world. People like him do not give a hoot for what happens to you.

Do you really think that a bunch of politicians who will maim and kill people without remorse or regret are ever going to be concerned about your comparatively trivial problems?

These people have only one concern on their minds.

Their own self-advancement."

Could not have put it better myself.

Nice one Vinny. There are quite a few links like that to be found. Blair is the master of deceit and spin. He is self-righteous and a narcissist. It also explains why the evil of bullying throughout society isnt tackled as hard as it should be because politicians bully themselves.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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