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How Far 'up' And 'down'

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I think about things like this in the interminable Departures Lounge of Life.

It can't be 'all the way up.' Or Down? Surely? If it were, one could impose rent on utilities, underground trains, burrowing North Korean invasion forces, overflying planes etc? But if it's not, what's to stop anyone taking advantage and building a vast underground city fulled of crazed David Essex's dressed as artillerymen?

Somebody help me, I'm confused. I should never have ventured out of the OT forum, I know, but this did seem to be On Topic, in a way.

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I think about things like this in the interminable Departures Lounge of Life.

It can't be 'all the way up.' Or Down? Surely? If it were, one could impose rent on utilities, underground trains, burrowing North Korean invasion forces, overflying planes etc? But if it's not, what's to stop anyone taking advantage and building a vast underground city fulled of crazed David Essex's dressed as artillerymen?

Somebody help me, I'm confused. I should never have ventured out of the OT forum, I know, but this did seem to be On Topic, in a way.

How about a nice cup of tea and a lie down?

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blink.gif

I think about things like this in the interminable Departures Lounge of Life.

It can't be 'all the way up.' Or Down? Surely? If it were, one could impose rent on utilities, underground trains, burrowing North Korean invasion forces, overflying planes etc? But if it's not, what's to stop anyone taking advantage and building a vast underground city fulled of crazed David Essex's dressed as artillerymen?

Somebody help me, I'm confused. I should never have ventured out of the OT forum, I know, but this did seem to be On Topic, in a way.

Here on the moon we own the space up to a height of 20 miles above our houses but only 30m depth of rock. Under 30m belongs to our cousins the homo reptilis. They make the juiciest pies.

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blink.gif

I think about things like this in the interminable Departures Lounge of Life.

It can't be 'all the way up.' Or Down? Surely? If it were, one could impose rent on utilities, underground trains, burrowing North Korean invasion forces, overflying planes etc? But if it's not, what's to stop anyone taking advantage and building a vast underground city fulled of crazed David Essex's dressed as artillerymen?

Somebody help me, I'm confused. I should never have ventured out of the OT forum, I know, but this did seem to be On Topic, in a way.

I found this little snippet on t'internet. Does it help at all?

"In England the major property holders can have rights (sometimes trivial dating back to feudal times) over even "freehold" homes. The major property holders are the Crown, the Government, local councils and the Church. ... Routinely mineral rights, water capture or extraction and even rights over the sky above a home are owned by one of these four institutions."

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It is all the way up and all the way down. I cant be bothered to look for a source (sorry) but I did do Land Law as part of my degree so I am sure of the fact.

Before you ask no you cant insist airlines pay to use your airspace because that would be silly.

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It is all the way up and all the way down.

Apart from mineral rights, possibly.

I've done some more briveting and found these:

"Although a landowner owns the ground, they may not own the minerals (eg galena, fluorspar, limestone) if the rights to these have been retained by whoever sold the land to them. You will find that many of our landed gentry have sold on chunks of land but retained the mineral rights. That means that anyone mining the items have to get a lease from the mineral owner and pay them an agreed amount.

Sometimes you may find that a commercial mining company actually buys the mineral rights and, if they do not mine them themselves, they can agree leases and get the revenue.

Gold is solely owned in the UK by the Crown and you have to get an extraction licence from the Crown Commissioners.

So .... if you have an existing mine, any minerals left in situ will belong to whover owns the mineral rights or the Crown if it is gold.

BUT ... the landowner owns the space of a mine! So the shaft and passages belong to them, as well as any barren ground surrounding them."

and

"The rights to non-fuel minerals in Great Britain, with the exception of gold and silver, are mainly in private ownership although a significant proportion is owned by the Crown and by Government departments and agencies. Uranium and other prescribed minerals relating to the production of atomic energy belong to the mineral rights owner, but may be compulsorily purchased by the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry with compensation under powers granted in the Atomic Energy Act 1946. Although mineral rights are generally held by the surface landowner, they may have been retained by a previous landowner when the surface freehold was sold, particularly in areas with a long history of mining such as south-west England. There is no national register of mineral rights, but the Land Registry may have details of surface ownership and current ownership of mineral rights. The registers are open for public inspection. "

The second bit is by a bloke (Tim Coleman) who researched the topic for the British Geological Survey Exploration Guide published in 1990 (2nd edition 2000) which is freely downloadable from http://www.bgs.ac.uk/mineralsuk/free_downloads/home.html#GUIDE

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your a freeholder, you have the free right of the land, and just the land. Everything above and below you is owned by the state, and used under licence. I believe if you have a freehold you cannot mine the land, you need to get a separate licence, freehold has no limit, leasehold has a limit. I understand you dont even have a right to the water under the ground of your freehold, you need a licence to extract it

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Fee_simple

Edited by AteMoose

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Apart from mineral rights, possibly.

I've done some more briveting and found these:

"Although a landowner owns the ground, they may not own the minerals (eg galena, fluorspar, limestone) if the rights to these have been retained by whoever sold the land to them. You will find that many of our landed gentry have sold on chunks of land but retained the mineral rights. That means that anyone mining the items have to get a lease from the mineral owner and pay them an agreed amount.

Sometimes you may find that a commercial mining company actually buys the mineral rights and, if they do not mine them themselves, they can agree leases and get the revenue.

Gold is solely owned in the UK by the Crown and you have to get an extraction licence from the Crown Commissioners.

So .... if you have an existing mine, any minerals left in situ will belong to whover owns the mineral rights or the Crown if it is gold.

BUT ... the landowner owns the space of a mine! So the shaft and passages belong to them, as well as any barren ground surrounding them."

and

"The rights to non-fuel minerals in Great Britain, with the exception of gold and silver, are mainly in private ownership although a significant proportion is owned by the Crown and by Government departments and agencies. Uranium and other prescribed minerals relating to the production of atomic energy belong to the mineral rights owner, but may be compulsorily purchased by the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry with compensation under powers granted in the Atomic Energy Act 1946. Although mineral rights are generally held by the surface landowner, they may have been retained by a previous landowner when the surface freehold was sold, particularly in areas with a long history of mining such as south-west England. There is no national register of mineral rights, but the Land Registry may have details of surface ownership and current ownership of mineral rights. The registers are open for public inspection. "

The second bit is by a bloke (Tim Coleman) who researched the topic for the British Geological Survey Exploration Guide published in 1990 (2nd edition 2000) which is freely downloadable from http://www.bgs.ac.uk/mineralsuk/free_downloads/home.html#GUIDE

So, as long as you do as you are told, you basically own the grass you mow on a Sunday then ?

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So, as long as you do as you are told, you basically own the grass you mow on a Sunday then ?

IMHO yes, you own the grass, but you only have the right to grow grass on your freehold...

Edited by AteMoose

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I remember in "The Man Who Sold the Moon" he bought all the equatorial lands the Moon passed over to stake his claim.

The USA passed a law in 2006, the USA owns all space, planets, moons. It will deny any nation it doesn't like from going into or using space. After all they planted a flag on the moon...

http://www.guardian....loration.usnews

Edited by AteMoose

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Before you ask no you cant insist airlines pay to use your airspace because that would be silly.

Since when has 'That's just silly' been a legal defense? wink.gif

C'mon all you like me under a flight path. We need to assert out rights. And that goes for satelites, too. It's time Murdoch paid me something for Sky.... (not that I have Sky, I'm a good, dyed in the wool working HPCer, and we all know on here that only the unemplyed and BTL landlords subscribe to Sky).

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Since when has 'That's just silly' been a legal defense? wink.gif

C'mon all you like me under a flight path. We need to assert out rights. And that goes for satelites, too. It's time Murdoch paid me something for Sky.... (not that I have Sky, I'm a good, dyed in the wool working HPCer, and we all know on here that only the unemplyed and BTL landlords subscribe to Sky).

you don't own the air, the state does, you need permission to fly a plane over a foreign state, (unless your really high up 80km)

Edited by AteMoose

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“landowners” own nothing, it all belongs to the Crown.

Freehold property means that the owner has complete and absolute ownership of the land, and all buildings that stand on the land.

The owner of the freehold property is therefore in a position to do what they wish to and with the property, in accordance with local planning regulations.

http://www.mortgages.co.uk/buying-freehold/index.html

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Since when has 'That's just silly' been a legal defense? wink.gif

C'mon all you like me under a flight path. We need to assert out rights. And that goes for satelites, too. It's time Murdoch paid me something for Sky.... (not that I have Sky, I'm a good, dyed in the wool working HPCer, and we all know on here that only the unemplyed and BTL landlords subscribe to Sky).

Are you American?

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Gold is solely owned in the UK by the Crown and you have to get an extraction licence from the Crown Commissioners.

So .... if you have an existing mine, any minerals left in situ will belong to whover owns the mineral rights or the Crown if it is gold.

BUT ... the landowner owns the space of a mine! So the shaft and passages belong to them, as well as any barren ground surrounding them."

There's a song about that: She Got the Goldmine (I Got the Shaft).

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  • 142 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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