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gruffydd

Once Again, Ireland Is No Country For Young Men

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http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/once-again-ireland-is-no-country-for-young-men-2263223.html

I hope that the young people do not go. I hope that they stay here and light a fuse under the kind of society that Ireland has become, that they will fight for change.

But I also know that they want lives of their own, and that Ireland now looks like a broken state, a country betrayed by its leaders. If the next generation emigrates then the chances of fundamental change lessen, which will certainly suit some people.

But it will not benefit those who are young.

Edited by gruffydd

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Joyce called Ireland "the old sow that eats it farrow".

Hmmm, there are lots of sows on this side of the water too - better known as baby boomers!

Edited by gruffydd

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Sadly I think that we've probably caught the Irish disease. Many of our people are emigrating too.

The only traffic the other way is the old wanting free care.

YES

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Many of our people are emigrating too.

Like me, now set up in Norway (I'm 27). With my engineering background in electronics, it was relatively easy to get an indefinite residence permit. Time will tell if I've hedged my bets right that this will be a good place to see through the significant changes coming. So far I feel safer outside Britain, and safer outside the EU. My standard of living is much better than it was working in the Midlands, and I like the tolerant society where people respect each other more. People here seem to appreciate that hyping cheap gimmicks doesn't progress society.

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Like me, now set up in Norway (I'm 27). With my engineering background in electronics, it was relatively easy to get an indefinite residence permit. Time will tell if I've hedged my bets right that this will be a good place to see through the significant changes coming. So far I feel safer outside Britain, and safer outside the EU. My standard of living is much better than it was working in the Midlands, and I like the tolerant society where people respect each other more. People here seem to appreciate that hyping cheap gimmicks doesn't progress society.

Hey man - I'm an electronic engineer, too... I'm in Scotland. I met an engineer from Norway once at a training course in Switzerland, he loved the place.

What company or at least line of work is it? (I do analogue electronics). Can't imagine the job was posted online on something like ICResources....??

I often think about getting out of here but don't know if I could do it - I quite like Edinburgh and the surrounding areas! Are salaries any higher over in Norway? You make me think!!

Edited by guitarman001

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Like me, now set up in Norway (I'm 27). With my engineering background in electronics, it was relatively easy to get an indefinite residence permit. Time will tell if I've hedged my bets right that this will be a good place to see through the significant changes coming. So far I feel safer outside Britain, and safer outside the EU. My standard of living is much better than it was working in the Midlands, and I like the tolerant society where people respect each other more. People here seem to appreciate that hyping cheap gimmicks doesn't progress society.

Life in Norway is good.

the only downsides are the short Winter nights - and the high cost of living.

And to be honest - who needs to drink more?

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Sceptical about this - article by a professional commentator.

I know hundreds of people in Ireland, and none of them has been forced even to consider emigration. Difficult to reconcile with the newspaper headlines. And apart from those with superior skills - like Norway expat - it's difficult to imagine where they might emigrate to, unless from one welfare system to another.

Until I get confirmation from people, I reckon the bubble is still being blown with increasingly wheezy breaths.

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Hey man - I'm an electronic engineer, too... I'm in Scotland. I met an engineer from Norway once at a training course in Switzerland, he loved the place.

What company or at least line of work is it? (I do analogue electronics). Can't imagine the job was posted online on something like ICResources....??

I often think about getting out of here but don't know if I could do it - I quite like Edinburgh and the surrounding areas! Are salaries any higher over in Norway? You make me think!!

Cool - I'm from Edinburgh (though I was in the Midlands before I came here). Love living in Scotland too, will maybe move back one day, but I want to see how things go in the UK first. I like it here at the moment. Actually I came over with work already, so was quite lucky (a big UK company in the aerospace and marine industry). After a year I transitioned to a Norwegian contract ("going local"). I'm working more and more with software now rather than just electronics.

Salaries are about double, as are costs. I'm taxed at 32%, VAT is 25%. Cars and beer are the biggest difference (a beer is £7-10, a car is at least 3 times the UK price). But on balance, I feel I have a more comfortable life here.

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Nonsense, Ireland's population has been going down for years, big families are the exception rather than the norm they were 30 years ago.

Ireland:

The main problem is over population, what causes this?

Religon.

EU membership and all those helpers who came over to do the unskilled work.

Edited by PricedOutNative

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Sceptical about this - article by a professional commentator.

I know hundreds of people in Ireland, and none of them has been forced even to consider emigration. Difficult to reconcile with the newspaper headlines. And apart from those with superior skills - like Norway expat - it's difficult to imagine where they might emigrate to, unless from one welfare system to another.

Until I get confirmation from people, I reckon the bubble is still being blown with increasingly wheezy breaths.

I'm Irish, living in Ireland, and am leaving at Christmas.

The people you know must not be under 25. 25 to 30 are hanging on by the skin of their teeth, 30-35 are the poor souls who bought boom priced housing, so will take a little longer to go, but many will. Over 35 are pretty much established here, though some of these are going too.

What has happened here politically in the last two years will ruin they country for many years to come (google: NAMA). When people realise this, they will go. This is not 'forced emigration' for the 25+ groups per se, but it is happening nonetheless. The under 25s are what most people mean when they say 'young people' I think. There is nothing for them, absolutely nothing. I have a 20 year old brother in college, in Dublin, and for 18 months, he hasn't managed to get a single offer of part time shelf stacking, bar work, mc donalds etc. I was recently on holidays in a small rural community, and all the talk was whole gangs of youngsters are buggering off.

There was a text poll in a Sunday newspaper the other week, asking are you in favour or are you against the banking bailout (proportinately far bigger than the British or American one). In a sample size of c. 25,000, it was 95% against. People are not happy, and as the Prof. said, the political establishment are happy to see us go. It wouldn't be tolerated in any other country, IMO, it's a disgrace.

The only thing stemming the flow is the difficulty to get visas for the old traditional destinations. Britain may well get a large influx. They won't be travelling to go on welfare, you'd be hard pushed to find better dole than Ireland. (200 euro a week, 360 if you have a wife and kid, + money for rent, fuel etc etc). The are emigrating for work. A lot of the unemployed here are either highly qualified graduates, or skilled tradesmen. They'll find work elsewhere all right, Canada is pretty popular it seems.

Ireland is smaller than Manchester. When they shit hits the fan like now, there is simply nothing here for whole sectors.

Edit to include link:

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2010/02/24/its-time-to-shout-stop-nama-is-grand-larceny

Edited by brianjamesos

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Ireland:

The main problem is over population, what causes this?

Religon.

EU membership and all those helpers who came over to do the unskilled work.

:D

Ireland is one of the most sparsely populated countries in Europe. And condoms aren't illegal anymore - whoo hoo!

Not that the establishment here would have you believe it - the boom was engineered by a cabal of developers sitting on most serviced building land, like chickens on clutches of eggs. Brian Lenihan, father of current Finance Minister Brian Lenihan, was quizzed about the plague of emigration during the eighties as he was also a government minister then (politics here is very much 'keep it in the family'). His answer?

"We can't all live on this little island, now can we?"

That tells you all you need to know about the establishment running the place here.

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I'm Irish, living in Ireland, and am leaving at Christmas.

The people you know must not be under 25. 25 to 30 are hanging on by the skin of their teeth, 30-35 are the poor souls who bought boom priced housing, so will take a little longer to go, but many will. Over 35 are pretty much established here, though some of these are going too.

What has happened here politically in the last two years will ruin they country for many years to come (google: NAMA). When people realise this, they will go. This is not 'forced emigration' for the 25+ groups per se, but it is happening nonetheless. The under 25s are what most people mean when they say 'young people' I think. There is nothing for them, absolutely nothing. I have a 20 year old brother in college, in Dublin, and for 18 months, he hasn't managed to get a single offer of part time shelf stacking, bar work, mc donalds etc. I was recently on holidays in a small rural community, and all the talk was whole gangs of youngsters are buggering off.

There was a text poll in a Sunday newspaper the other week, asking are you in favour or are you against the banking bailout (proportinately far bigger than the British or American one). In a sample size of c. 25,000, it was 95% against. People are not happy, and as the Prof. said, the political establishment are happy to see us go. It wouldn't be tolerated in any other country, IMO, it's a disgrace.

The only thing stemming the flow is the difficulty to get visas for the old traditional destinations. Britain may well get a large influx. They won't be travelling to go on welfare, you'd be hard pushed to find better dole than Ireland. (200 euro a week, 360 if you have a wife and kid, + money for rent, fuel etc etc). The are emigrating for work. A lot of the unemployed here are either highly qualified graduates, or skilled tradesmen. They'll find work elsewhere all right, Canada is pretty popular it seems.

Ireland is smaller than Manchester. When they shit hits the fan like now, there is simply nothing here for whole sectors.

This is what you get by protecting the value of money over the value inherent in your society.

Its the road to ruin and will ruin Ireland demographically and economically.

Its terribly short sighted and is being done to protect the wealthy boomers who knowingly or unknowingly caused the problem in the first place.

You are all very frightened of inflation but the inflation will come anyway as towns and country start to empty and the best go elsewhere. It can't be stopped by nonses like internal devaluation.

Ironic that the vigorous defence of money leads to the very diaspora of talent that Ayn Rand went on about.

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http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/once-again-ireland-is-no-country-for-young-men-2263223.html

I hope that the young people do not go. I hope that they stay here and light a fuse under the kind of society that Ireland has become, that they will fight for change.

But I also know that they want lives of their own, and that Ireland now looks like a broken state, a country betrayed by its leaders. If the next generation emigrates then the chances of fundamental change lessen, which will certainly suit some people.

But it will not benefit those who are young.

Left Ireland in 1997 - Been working in the UK and now Norway - and now married to someone not Irish. Never left because of the work situation , just went for a Uni course then you meet someone and bang your 10 years or more away- always thought if you can't get a job in your home country where can you get a job - I don't think for most people there is a big advantage in going to another place - of course yes there may be more jobs in a certain area in another location - but in the long term are you really any better off, and if you go elsewhere you do not have your immediate family close to you.

Off course always back on forth on good old ryanair and cheap airlines - so never really felt that I am that far way from home - and talking to mates who have settled in other parts of Ireland - they get back home to see there family as often as I do - as you can fly back in the time it takes them to drive.

But then there is thatnagging homesickness, and just living the country you grew up in.

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This is what you get by protecting the value of money over the value inherent in your society.

Its the road to ruin and will ruin Ireland demographically and economically.

Its terribly short sighted and is being done to protect the wealthy boomers who knowingly or unknowingly caused the problem in the first place.

You are all very frightened of inflation but the inflation will come anyway as towns and country start to empty and the best go elsewhere. It can't be stopped by nonses like internal devaluation.

Ironic that the vigorous defence of money leads to the very diaspora of talent that Ayn Rand went on about.

Well it would do, as it's done by the state.

Free markets please!

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Hmmm, there are lots of sows on this side of the water too - better known as baby boomers!

As someone in my mid 50's I resent this growing tendency to scapegoat 'baby boomers', which could lead to conflict between generations.

A lot of younger people are in financial difficulties because they lived beyond their means and it's no good them blaming their parent's generation. Many young would-be first-time buyers complain they're priced out of the market, but in previous generations they'd never have been the sort to be in the housing market anyway - they'd have been tenants or, going back a decade or two further, possibly living tied accommodation provided by their employer.

If we need a scapegoat at all, then it has to be the banks. They got everyone into this mess and rewarded their top bosses for letting it happen.

Edited by blankster

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As someone in my mid 50's I resent this growing tendency to scapegoat 'baby boomers', which could lead to conflict between generations.

A lot of younger people are in financial difficulties because they lived beyond their means and it's no good them blaming their parent's generation.

Is that similar to the 'be nice to people on the way up or you might meet the same people on the way back down'?

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As someone in my mid 50's I resent this growing tendency to scapegoat 'baby boomers', which could lead to conflict between generations.

A lot of younger people are in financial difficulties because they lived beyond their means and it's no good them blaming their parent's generation. Many young would-be first-time buyers complain they're priced out of the market, but in previous generations they'd never have been the sort to be in the housing market anyway - they'd have been tenants or, going back a decade or two further, possibly living tied accommodation provided by their employer.

If we need a scapegoat at all, then it has to be the banks. They got everyone into this mess and rewarded their top bosses for letting it happen.

:ph34r:

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/the-generation-game

So no transfer of wealth to the boomers? The bottom tier of any ponzi enriches the above tiers, and loses their money.

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A lot of younger people are in financial difficulties because they lived beyond their means and it's no good them blaming their parent's generation. Many young would-be first-time buyers complain they're priced out of the market, but in previous generations they'd never have been the sort to be in the housing market anyway - they'd have been tenants or, going back a decade or two further, possibly living tied accommodation provided by their employer.

the savings accumulated by boomers during the boom years are ponzi savings, because they were based on ponzi lending.

Therefore the only way to heal the irish economy and prevent the young people abandoning the old to an inflationary, lonely old age is to eliminate the ponzi savings now, not try and protect them.

If you believe that young people, who must of been, oh, all of about 18 when this ponzi got started, are to blame, then I guess you had better bankrupt them all. They won't mind that so much, as long as they can get a job and start over.

But because of the insane monetary policy of the EU, these young people can't even get a fresh start.

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4 of my cousins moved back to Donegal / Dublin - and have now boomeranged back to Oz, US. Because of the economic crisis.

I don't think anyone can believe it's happening AGAIN. Very depressing.

I agree - there really is nothing - even shelf stacking, jobs at MaccyD's, etc., over huge areas. It's virtually impossible to get work.

Edited by gruffydd

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But because of the insane monetary policy of the EU, these young people can't even get a fresh start.

So - funny money got us in this mess, funny money can jolly well get us out of it?

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As someone in my mid 50's I resent this growing tendency to scapegoat 'baby boomers', which could lead to conflict between generations.

A lot of younger people are in financial difficulties because they lived beyond their means and it's no good them blaming their parent's generation. Many young would-be first-time buyers complain they're priced out of the market, but in previous generations they'd never have been the sort to be in the housing market anyway - they'd have been tenants or, going back a decade or two further, possibly living tied accommodation provided by their employer.

If we need a scapegoat at all, then it has to be the banks. They got everyone into this mess and rewarded their top bosses for letting it happen.

Or going back further, living in a mud hut supplied by the local Lord? Who voted for the lady who let the banks off the leash?

Edited by gruffydd

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So - funny money got us in this mess, funny money can jolly well get us out of it?

it may be funny but as long as its funny money of opposite polarity to the boom funny money it should help to heal.

hard money policy being implemented in ireland is protecting ponzi savings built up during the boom by ejecting the young, 18-25 who had little or nothing to do with the boom, from the economy.

this is not a prudent policy and it is protecting the wrong people and punishing the wrong people.

this will end very badly for ireland in about 15 years time when they have a population implosion and all that is left is old rich boomers. The economy will then totally collapse and their savings will be worthless anyway.

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it may be funny but as long as its funny money of opposite polarity to the boom funny money it should help to heal.

hard money policy being implemented in ireland is protecting ponzi savings built up during the boom by ejecting the young, 18-25 who had little or nothing to do with the boom, from the economy.

this is not a prudent policy and it is protecting the wrong people and punishing the wrong people.

this will end very badly for ireland in about 15 years time when they have a population implosion and all that is left is old rich boomers. The economy will then totally collapse and their savings will be worthless anyway.

Pfft free market is the answer.

Let anyone who wants print euros up.

All over in a week.

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  • 146 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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