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What Is The Point Of Forumla 1?


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HOLA441

F1 is becoming like Jazz music - only really of interest to the players and a handful of 'expert' commentators.

Yesterday was the last F1 race I'll watch this year - total bull$hit.

Buckers

I amazed F1 fans seem to think this is new, it has always been like this, it is part of F1. IMHO F1 is more popular now than 6 or 7 years ago, and the sport has been cleaned up a bit more. FIA unofficially stands for ferrari international assistance, it was really bad a few years back. F1 is better than before, BUT the politics have always been there. There is less now, but the politics make it interesting, there is spying, politics between teams, politics in teams, politics and dodgy deals with tracks, back stabbing, sex parties, intentional crashes, brawn who won last year because they had an apparent advantage, and finally one bloke who runs the entire show and pulls the strings

discovering that F1 is corrupt and getting outraged in 2010, when it appears has been cleaned up alot in past couple of years seems a little daft

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HOLA442

I amazed F1 fans seem to think this is new, it has always been like this, it is part of F1. IMHO F1 is more popular now than 6 or 7 years ago, and the sport has been cleaned up a bit more. FIA unofficially stands for ferrari international assistance, it was really bad a few years back. F1 is better than before, BUT the politics have always been there. There is less now, but the politics make it interesting, there is spying, politics between teams, politics in teams, politics and dodgy deals with tracks, back stabbing, sex parties, intentional crashes, brawn who won last year because they had an apparent advantage, and finally one bloke who runs the entire show and pulls the strings

discovering that F1 is corrupt and getting outraged in 2010, when it appears has been cleaned up alot in past couple of years seems a little daft

Come, come. They're not all crooks.

SIR Fred Goodwin, the former chief executive of the Royal Bank of Scotland, is being lined up to replace Max Mosley as president of Formula 1's governing body.

Oh.

(Admittedly, that was last year and I don't recall hearing any more since.)

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HOLA443

It probably is to some extent. But a lot of the technology just isn't relevant for an ordinary everyday car. A good example of this would be the aerodynamics. The F1 teams put a lot of money into refining them, but at 30 mph they're entirely irrelevant.

I think they just about set the benchmark for everything don't they? If you want to know what features your Mondeo will have in 10 years time go and test drive an S-Class.

True, aero is the problem in all sorts of ways. Although as Brits, we should probably be happy about this, its retained a lot of skills in the country. Except for, I think, Ferrari and Sauber, the cars are all built and designed here, and even then the race engineers at Ferrari are British, the engine people at Ferrari seem to be mostly British etc etc. Its funny really that we pretty much own F1 (and Bernie does of course literally own F1), our drivers have won back to back world championships, are currently leading the championship one and two, and as a country we are pretty much non-plussed about it.

That said, if anyone can get KERS working it will be the F1 teams.

I should add, I've been briefly involved with some F1 teams, the engineering end has to be seen to be believed. Hundreds of people just constantly working, night and day. They have day and night shifts in the R&D departments, its just amazing the aggressive rate of work and development they keep up. Its unfortunate there is no way of explaining this in the coverage. The driver getting in the car at the next week is almost a small detail in terms of the whole process.

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True, aero is the problem in all sorts of ways. Although as Brits, we should probably be happy about this, its retained a lot of skills in the country. Except for, I think, Ferrari and Sauber, the cars are all built and designed here, and even then the race engineers at Ferrari are British, the engine people at Ferrari seem to be mostly British etc etc. Its funny really that we pretty much own F1 (and Bernie does of course literally own F1), our drivers have won back to back world championships, are currently leading the championship one and two, and as a country we are pretty much non-plussed about it.

That said, if anyone can get KERS working it will be the F1 teams.

I should add, I've been briefly involved with some F1 teams, the engineering end has to be seen to be believed. Hundreds of people just constantly working, night and day. They have day and night shifts in the R&D departments, its just amazing the aggressive rate of work and development they keep up. Its unfortunate there is no way of explaining this in the coverage. The driver getting in the car at the next week is almost a small detail in terms of the whole process.

I wish they'd do a lot more on the technical side of F1. At present we get 5 minutes at the start of a few races where Martin Brundle walkes around a car and points out that it's made of cabon fibre (as if we disn't already know) and that it's brakes don't work unless they're hot. He'll also point out that the steering wheel costs 50K.

A lot more in depth discussions of the technical side of things would be very welcome, as far as Im concerned.

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HOLA4411

I had a scholarship lined up to go to university funded by an F1 team with a guaranteed job at the end, but decided against it. Good thing really, as the team went bust the year I went to uni. Still, would have been nice.

Anyway, F1 at present is very dull, primarily caused by 1) too much aero grip and 2) not enough variety in lap times.

The aero grip problem is something that can be solved by changes to the rules regarding wings and winglets, but it's difficult due to the sheer skill of people like Adrian Newey.

The variety in lap times - hmm, tough one. The proble is that the people who are fastest in qualifying are also fastest in the race, so you just get the field spreading out throughout the race without any overtaking. I guess I would like one set of tyres for qualifying and the race, specially designed to JUST last for the two and no refuelling, with the amount of fuel available per race decreasing every year to encourage better efficiency.

That would encourage a bit of variety - I mean, either banzai the qualy and hinder your race or a slower pace in qualifying and a faster race.

But then again, it would mean that the pit crew would only be there for wing changes etc.

One thing, and one thing only is needed to make F1 an overtaking-fest - Clutch and manual transmission.

Of course it'll never happen.

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HOLA4413

How about having speed cameras popping up at random locations every so often, with penalties if you pass one too quickly? That might make it more interesting.

I've often thought having police 'stingers' rolled out randomly might help too. Make up for the outrageous levels of reliability we see these days, compared to days gone by when a race wasn't complete without an engine going up in smoke at some point.

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HOLA4414

One thing, and one thing only is needed to make F1 an overtaking-fest - Clutch and manual transmission.

Of course it'll never happen.

You are 100% right (on both counts).

Technology sanitises F1 to the point where I prefer to watch MotoGP.

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HOLA4415

Fair enough, but you had Vettel taking out Webber and then you had Button overtaking Hamilton on the penultimate lap and Hamilton overtaking Button on the final lap.

I think it's hilarious how F1 fans are trying to hold up Turkey as an example of exciting racing

Both "overtakes" were a result of confusing team instructions and cars being "tuned down" to save fuel or whatever, zero racing at all, and yet it's being paraded as some sort of example of legendary F1 excitement.

F1 fans are so blinded as to how dull the sport is, they are now more interested in the politics, rules and technology that define the sport, and witter on for hours about team orders, number one drivers, tires this, downforce that. Just nerds droning on and on like the car bores they are, completely absorbed in everything surrounding the sport because there is no racing to speak of.

Stuff MotoGP, bikes are for arseholes. Take any other formula outside of F1 and there is more excitment in a single race than an entire F1 season. GP2 was excellent Sunday morning on Eurosport, Porsche Supercup, smaller single seater formulas, IndyCar's, touring cars. No end of quality, exciting racing. And not a single personality vacuum like Christian Horner in sight.

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I had a scholarship lined up to go to university funded by an F1 team with a guaranteed job at the end, but decided against it. Good thing really, as the team went bust the year I went to uni. Still, would have been nice.

Anyway, F1 at present is very dull, primarily caused by 1) too much aero grip and 2) not enough variety in lap times.

The aero grip problem is something that can be solved by changes to the rules regarding wings and winglets, but it's difficult due to the sheer skill of people like Adrian Newey.

The variety in lap times - hmm, tough one. The proble is that the people who are fastest in qualifying are also fastest in the race, so you just get the field spreading out throughout the race without any overtaking. I guess I would like one set of tyres for qualifying and the race, specially designed to JUST last for the two and no refuelling, with the amount of fuel available per race decreasing every year to encourage better efficiency.

That would encourage a bit of variety - I mean, either banzai the qualy and hinder your race or a slower pace in qualifying and a faster race.

But then again, it would mean that the pit crew would only be there for wing changes etc.

How about the cars being totaly free as regards design, apart from being open cockpit and open wheel. Only linitation being fuel capacity. You can run a small highly turbocharged engine, or indeed turbo compound, or a big natuaraly aspirated engine, whatever you think is best for the job. You can try to do the whole race on one tank of fuel or stop to refuel, whichever you think will be faster overall. The only other rule as regards the cars would be for each team to deliver one tyre to the organizers two weeks before the race. This tyre would have to be used for at least part of the race. And, just like stock cars used to do, they may still do so for all I know, the fastest in qualifying start at the back of the grid.

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HOLA4420

How about constructors and drivers getting points for the qualifying sessions and the drivers getting additional points for the race, where the grid is set up by lottery (grid position allocated by drawing from a hat).

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HOLA4421

I think for some ppl, the "danger" of F1 has largely gone, and perhaps that is what some ppl watched it for, especially in the mid 80's - early nineties..Those days will never return, but TG did an excellent film about Senna. Some of the cars they drove in those days no more than large Go-Karts..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpN0ODgK4mM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_SQ1TI9A4A&feature=related

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I think for some ppl, the "danger" of F1 has largely gone, and perhaps that is what some ppl watched it for, especially in the mid 80's - early nineties..Those days will never return, but TG did an excellent film about Senna. Some of the cars they drove in those days no more than large Go-Karts..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpN0ODgK4mM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_SQ1TI9A4A&feature=related

Very enjoyable piece of recent history, thanks for posting. I used to be mildly obsessed with Senna (for all his faults) and gradually grew out of it. This was like a slap around the face, in a good way. To see Hamilton's kiddylike joy to drive that car was special.

On F1, what do people think about my idea above:

"How about constructors and drivers getting points for the qualifying sessions and the drivers getting additional points for the race, where the grid is set up by lottery (grid position allocated by drawing from a hat). "

Random grid position, proper forced racing combined with points for quickest car and driver. Too off the wall for the status quo probably.

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HOLA4424

Very enjoyable piece of recent history, thanks for posting. I used to be mildly obsessed with Senna (for all his faults) and gradually grew out of it. This was like a slap around the face, in a good way. To see Hamilton's kiddylike joy to drive that car was special.

On F1, what do people think about my idea above:

"How about constructors and drivers getting points for the qualifying sessions and the drivers getting additional points for the race, where the grid is set up by lottery (grid position allocated by drawing from a hat). "

Random grid position, proper forced racing combined with points for quickest car and driver. Too off the wall for the status quo probably.

I see where you are coming from. In WTCC they have grid re-arranging within the 2 race format and also weight penalties etc. However, in F1 there problems with this are two-fold. First, safety. They can't rag round each other, again its damn aero. What you have to appreciate is they have a lot of rubber forced down very hard onto the track. When they touch each other it isn't like in other forms of racing, its like driving into the side of a house because they aren't going to budge (the bits that fly off aren't really as fragile as they look on TV). Huge forces involved when they do shunt each other around. The other problem is simply that with the cars being different, you'd be deciding the outcome by a lottery. Pole: Hamilton 2nd place: Bruno Senna 3rd place: Trulli 4th place: Vettel. Barring a good start, the lead that Hamilton could open up in that scenario would be so great that the race would be over within five laps barring mechanical failure for Vettel. He'd finish second, Hamilton in that scenario could win by up to a minute or whatever. You get the closest racing by not having fast cars pent up behind slower ones.

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HOLA4425

Agreed.

And they seem hell bent on taking the excitement out of it. Stopping refuelling for instance, removing one of the big variables and points of strategy.

I completely disagree. Refuelling was the biggest single factor in creating a decade of boredom in Formula one. It removed all exciting strategy and overtaking on the track with everything revolving around flat out sprints and overtaking in the pits.

Preservation of tyres, slick tires and no refuelling adds abundantly more to the spectacle as the variations in mechanical and aero grip, acceleration etc are more pronounced throughout the race. As weight comes down, drivers are able to increase speed but must balance the tyre wear. The variations mean more mistakes and more opportunities.

The skills are back with the drivers and it has made for more interesting races this season than in a decade of Schumacher dominance.

If they would only remove the last of the stupid rules, i.e. mandatory tire stops we would be back to the where F1 should be at its purest and most entertaining form.

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