The Bankers Are Laughing At Us

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jul/23/banks-bonuses-boom

[Lucifer]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jul/23/banks-bonuses-boom

It amuses me, and I'm sure it amuses the bankers immensely, that the general public will pay for the banking crisis with huge cute in public spending and large rises in tax, but the bankers contribution will be, and this only possibly, a mere 2 and a bit billion.

[Guest_ringledman_*]

It amuses me, and I'm sure it amuses the bankers immensely, that the general public will pay for the banking crisis with huge cute in public spending and large rises in tax, but the bankers contribution will be, and this only possibly, a mere 2 and a bit billion.

Regardless of the wrongs of the bankers, the public sector cuts are necessary as much of the sector is non-productive.

The public sector as a % of GDP needs to be cut back and people move into the private sector.

The obsession with banking as another large % of our GDP needs to end. Banking should be here to support the 'real' private sector - production and high quality service.

Simple really. We need to produce.

The public sector and banking sector need to be aligned with this if we are going to have an economy fit for the 21st century.

Edited July 25, 2010 by ringledman

[darwin]

Of course they're laughing at us.

It's one of the perks of the job.

[MrFlibble]

There is nothing we can do about it since the government is willing to be held to ransom by them time and time again.

Slowly but surely wealth is being transferred from the average man to the super rich, but isn't this how its always been?

Welcome to the new world order of haves and have nots...

[Lucifer]

Regardless of the wrongs of the bankers, the public sector cuts are necessary as much of the sector is non-productive.

The public sector as a % of GDP needs to be cut back and people move into the private sector.

The obsession with banking as another large % of our GDP needs to end. Banking should be here to support the 'real' private sector - production and high quality service.

Simple really. We need to produce.

The public sector and banking sector need to be aligned with this if we are going to have an economy fit for the 21st century.

I agree with that above up to a certain point..the point at which free marketeers get strung up on theior won petard: its fine to say move people into the private sector employment..but doing what? in a globalised world one would have to assume that the jobs people could be doing have, in all likelihood, already been outsourced to China or India.

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

There is nothing we can do about it since the government is willing to be held to ransom by them time and time again.

Slowly but surely wealth is being transferred from the average man to the super rich, but isn't this how its always been?

Welcome to the new world order of haves and have nots...

No, money has been transferred in times gone by FROM the super rich, hence the demise of many old feudal families. Now we seem to be reverting to a new Norman conquest. This time it's an invasion by stealth, with bankers to the fore.

Edited July 25, 2010 by gruffydd

[Guest_ringledman_*]

I agree with that above up to a certain point..the point at which free marketeers get strung up on theior won petard: its fine to say move people into the private sector employment..but doing what? in a globalised world one would have to assume that the jobs people could be doing have, in all likelihood, already been outsourced to China or India.

This view is always sold on here and completely wrong. The UK can compete on many levels in offering high end manufacturing and servce related jobs for the emerging 3billion + 3billion more that will take their place in the world over the next 30 years.

- Oil & Gas expertise, renewable energy, aviation, etc. I.e high engineering, infrastructure etc.

The East is quickly catching up but there are certain areas we can excel in.

The big problem is that individuals in this country dont have the skills to compete.

Without a degree, masters and professional qualiications in science based areas, employees here will continue to see their standards of living fall and be replaced by those in the East.

Keeping people employed in non-jobs in the public sector is not the solution to the move in manufacturing and service jobs to China and India.

We either have to compete on offering goods and service to the new world of rising prosperity in the Emerging Markets (for which there will be many future opportunities) or we give up now and follow the socialist route of mass government employment and total collapse of the system.

No option.

Edited July 25, 2010 by ringledman

[dhpcza]

I agree with that above up to a certain point..the point at which free marketeers get strung up on theior won petard: its fine to say move people into the private sector employment..but doing what? in a globalised world one would have to assume that the jobs people could be doing have, in all likelihood, already been outsourced to China or India.

They will be doing the jobs that were done in the public sector, but for private firms. This is much better apparently, as then, the money goes to the "right" people.

[Lucifer]

This view is always sold on here and completely wrong. The UK can compete on many levels in offering high end manufacturing and servce related jobs for the emerging 3billion + 3billion more that will take their place in the world over the next 30 years.

- Oil & Gas expertise, renewable energy, aviation, etc. I.e high engineering, infrastructure etc.

The East is quickly catching up but there are certain areas we can excel in.

The big problem is that individuals in this country dont have the skills to compete.

Without a degree, masters and professional qualiications in science based areas, employees here will continue to see their standards of living fall and be replaced by those in the East.

Keeping people employed in non-jobs in the public sector is not the solution to the move in manufacturing and service jobs to China and India.

We either have to compete on offering goods and service to the new world of rising prosperity in the Emerging Markets (for which there will be many future opportunities) or we give up now and follow the socialist route of mass government employment and total collapse of the system.

No option.

Once again I don't disagree...I just wonder what you do with the 70% of the working population who are not educated to degree level.

[Guest_ringledman_*]

Once again I don't disagree...I just wonder what you do with the 70% of the working population who are not educated to degree level.

Whever there is a need there is a job. Plenty of non-degree jobs out there providing people have the skills, pluming/electricians etc.

The problem with many government jobs there is no 'need'.

There are non-jobs a plenty in the public sector - translating documents into other languages, communications, diversity, quangos, etc.

Employees in these areas need to move over into being productive elsewhere in the private sector.

Without skills and education (not necessarily a degree) people can't blame others when their standards of living fall.

Likewise people need to be much more willing to travel to where the work is.

[Guest_ringledman_*]

Essentially employees need to move from 'soft' government non-roles to supporting real 'hard' industries for which there is a demand.

A shift from the arts to science and engineering.

[AvidFan]

I think bankers just worry about the same things we do...

[Wario]

Whever there is a need there is a job. Plenty of non-degree jobs out there providing people have the skills, pluming/electricians etc.

This is getting a bit annoying. Seems to be the default "solution" for the more socially isolated and unreflective on this forum.

Have you any idea how many (formerly S/E in many cases) unemployed/underemployed tradesmen there are out there at the minute?

Not counting the hordes of cowboys from the Accession Countries.

How is popping a load of Hep2O together beyond the wit of the average householder?

The country is heaving with on-the-beach sparkies and pipe-stranglers ( and brickies, and chippies, and ...)

About as realistic as proposing that all those pumped out by our grotesquely bad "education system" be retrained as ploughmen. Typical clerk's cop-out.

[ed: effing tags, again]

Edited July 25, 2010 by Wario

[Lucifer]

This is getting a bit annoying. Seems to be the default "solution" for the more socially isolated and unreflective on this forum.

Have you any []idea[/i] how many (formerly S/E in many cases) unemployed/underemployed tradesmen there are out there at the minute?

Not counting the hordes of cowboys from the Accession Countries.

How is popping a load of Hep2O together beyond the wit of the average householder?

The country is heaving with on-the-beach sparkies and pipe-stranglers ( and brickies, and chippies, and ...)

About as realistic as proposing that all those pumped out by our grotesquely bad "education system" be retrained as ploughmen. Typical clerk's cop-out.

+1

A marvellous reply: an excellent ripost to HPC rug chewing goggle eyed "free" market nutter fraternity!

[AvidFan]

Yep - the city is back - and running on nothing but hot air:

[AvidFan]

Maybe bonuses will just self-correct downwards?

Edited July 25, 2010 by AvidFan

[dubsie]

Regardless of the wrongs of the bankers, the public sector cuts are necessary as much of the sector is non-productive.

The public sector as a % of GDP needs to be cut back and people move into the private sector.

The obsession with banking as another large % of our GDP needs to end. Banking should be here to support the 'real' private sector - production and high quality service.

Simple really. We need to produce.

The public sector and banking sector need to be aligned with this if we are going to have an economy fit for the 21st century.

this is utter nonsense, and if you think about it you will understand. Over the last 40 years services in this country have been cut year after year, but what we contribute increases. I can remeber when my local park had an army of gardeners employed full time just to main a couple of parks, these days its a couple of chaps with power mowers who maintain the entire stock of parks. The problem is that our money is being used to to fill the pockets of just a very small minority of people. These people have made billions from the money we invest in pensions, mortages etc etc. And when it all goes wrong they then use the state as a means to drain even more money from the working person. From government bonds, PFI and our services are slowly being sold off to companies who main aim is to please share holders.

This has already been mentioned but this is the new world order gathering pace. Some people on this forum make me smile as on the one hand they want house prices to crash but on the other seem to be behind they very bankers that were responsible for the housing boom. The whole boom was engineered by the banks and if you look at the markets the same sort of trading is starting all over again.

I really wish people would stop reading the daily mail and actually think about what they saying....remember once its gone it's never coming back.

[Lucifer]

this is utter nonsense, and if you think about it you will understand. Over the last 40 years services in this country have been cut year after year, but what we contribute increases. I can remeber when my local park had an army of gardeners employed full time just to main a couple of parks, these days its a couple of chaps with power mowers who maintain the entire stock of parks. The problem is that our money is being used to to fill the pockets of just a very small minority of people. These people have made billions from the money we invest in pensions, mortages etc etc. And when it all goes wrong they then use the state as a means to drain even more money from the working person. From government bonds, PFI and our services are slowly being sold off to companies who main aim is to please share holders.

This has already been mentioned but this is the new world order gathering pace. Some people on this forum make me smile as on the one hand they want house prices to crash but on the other seem to be behind they very bankers that were responsible for the housing boom. The whole boom was engineered by the banks and if you look at the markets the same sort of trading is starting all over again.

I really wish people would stop reading the daily mail and actually think about what they saying....remember once its gone it's never coming back.

+1

Unfortunately there are a lot of people on this site that Lenin (I think..) would have classed as "useful idiots."

[Realistbear]

Yep - the city is back - and running on nothing but hot air:

Too big to fail = too big

The government simply needs to break them up to ensure none are so large that they impact the entire economy when the banksters have robbed them to the point of failure.

At the moment, the government are complicit in their crime. Aiding and abetting robbery (the threat of failure is the means of extracting money with menace as required by the Theft Act 1968 as revised).

[Guest_ringledman_*]

this is utter nonsense, and if you think about it you will understand. Over the last 40 years services in this country have been cut year after year, but what we contribute increases. I can remeber when my local park had an army of gardeners employed full time just to main a couple of parks, these days its a couple of chaps with power mowers who maintain the entire stock of parks. The problem is that our money is being used to to fill the pockets of just a very small minority of people. These people have made billions from the money we invest in pensions, mortages etc etc. And when it all goes wrong they then use the state as a means to drain even more money from the working person. From government bonds, PFI and our services are slowly being sold off to companies who main aim is to please share holders.

This has already been mentioned but this is the new world order gathering pace. Some people on this forum make me smile as on the one hand they want house prices to crash but on the other seem to be behind they very bankers that were responsible for the housing boom. The whole boom was engineered by the banks and if you look at the markets the same sort of trading is starting all over again.

I really wish people would stop reading the daily mail and actually think about what they saying....remember once its gone it's never coming back.

Rubbish. The crises and high house prices was engineered by big and bad governance.

Greenspan, Bernankee, Bush, King, Blair, Brown, etc created a credit binge. That were the ROOT CAUSE of the crisis.

Together with the credit binge they allowed 'real' industry to be replaced witth non-productive government jobs in order to keep unemployment figures in check.

They created the worst policy of credit fueled asset rises based on nothing but easy money and low interest rates backed up by moving employment from the productive sectors to the non-productive.

The bankers latched onto this government fueled fake economy and many of them were fradulent along the way. Likewise the easy money situation lead to the financial sector believing that they could create wealth by themselves instead of by being a tertiary industry that supported 'real' economic development - i.e. private led production, infrastructure, services.

We used to have small and healthy recessions every 4-5 years. A time where people paid down debt before the next boom could start.

Bad governments let us wait from 1990 to 2008 before we faced the current massive crisis.

Government created the mess. The bankers latched on.

Edited July 25, 2010 by ringledman

[non frog]

....

Likewise people need to be much more willing to travel to where the work is.

Best start learning Chinese then.

[Meat Puppet]

this is utter nonsense, and if you think about it you will understand. Over the last 40 years services in this country have been cut year after year, but what we contribute increases. I can remeber when my local park had an army of gardeners employed full time just to main a couple of parks, these days its a couple of chaps with power mowers who maintain the entire stock of parks. The problem is that our money is being used to to fill the pockets of just a very small minority of people. These people have made billions from the money we invest in pensions, mortages etc etc. And when it all goes wrong they then use the state as a means to drain even more money from the working person. From government bonds, PFI and our services are slowly being sold off to companies who main aim is to please share holders.

This has already been mentioned but this is the new world order gathering pace. Some people on this forum make me smile as on the one hand they want house prices to crash but on the other seem to be behind they very bankers that were responsible for the housing boom. The whole boom was engineered by the banks and if you look at the markets the same sort of trading is starting all over again.

I really wish people would stop reading the daily mail and actually think about what they saying....remember once its gone it's never coming back.

You have just described a well known problem in economics called Baumol's disease. The problem is productivity itself. The productivity in manufacturing may have increased a hundred percent over the decades and some of that increased efficiency will be reflected in the workers' wages, but the gardener's productivity may only have improved marginally and wouldn't be granted a higher salary by the market. The gardener, however, requires at least a minimal salary or no one will do the job at all.

The result is fewer people employed as gardeners or any service sector employment if demand for them stays constant.

[dubsie]

Rubbish. The crises and high house prices was engineered by big and bad governance.

Greenspan, Bernankee, Bush, King, Blair, Brown, etc created a credit binge. That were the ROOT CAUSE of the crisis.

Together with the credit binge they allowed 'real' industry to be replaced witth non-productive government jobs in order to keep unemployment figures in check.

They created the worst policy of credit fueled asset rises based on nothing but easy money and low interest rates backed up by moving employment from the productive sectors to the non-productive.

The bankers latched onto this government fueled fake economy and many of them were fradulent along the way. Likewise the easy money situation lead to the financial sector believing that they could create wealth by themselves instead of by being a tertiary industry that supported 'real' economic development - i.e. private led production, infrastructure, services.

We used to have small and healthy recessions every 4-5 years. A time where people paid down debt before the next boom could start.

Bad governments let us wait from 1990 to 2008 before we faced the current massive crisis.

Government created the mess. The bankers latched on.

Yeah sure, every government in the world created an environment for which the banks had no part. These banks being some of the most powerful organisations in the world so big they could crush a government without even thinking about it. Do you really think we had any choice in this matter, do you think our vote would have made a difference and so you honestly think the tories would have said no to the very people that funded their move into power.

This is big bad government but the one where your vote doesn't count. Governments come and go but the people pulling the strings stay for generations.

[Dave Spart]

No, money has been transferred in times gone by FROM the super rich, hence the demise of many old feudal families. Now we seem to be reverting to a new Norman conquest. This time it's an invasion by stealth, with bankers to the fore.

I could see where things were going seven years ago.

It was then I first adopted the phrase "The New Barony".

So much for a so called socialist government.