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Guest The Relaxation Suite

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/7908742/Axe-falls-on-NHS-services.html

"Restrictions on some of the most basic and common operations, including hip and knee replacements, cataract surgery and orthodontic procedures...Plans to cut hundreds of thousands of pounds from budgets for the terminally ill, with dying cancer patients to be told to manage their own symptoms if their condition worsens at evenings or weekends...The closure of nursing homes for the elderly."

And we all fall about laughing at those who believed the "NHS has been ringfenced" lies.

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This is pissi*g me off:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/7908742/Axe-falls-on-NHS-services.html

Every day we hear more tales of how there be no police or the NHS is be a box Bandaids & a bottle of Aspin................Lies!

Just how long before the market sees this for what it is, a f*cking smokescreen!

At present the last of the £200 Billion is flowing out the system & at some point the US/UK buying each others debt will stop............@ that point we will need to turn to the markets & by then EVERYONE else will as well. They must DO something, don't talk, don't think,don't discuss....DO!

Mike

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Bang on the money - lots of talk of cuts - lots of talk of austerity...

But still managed to borrow 14.5bln from the markets last month!

Thats 500million a ******ing day!

What cuts???!!!???

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Guest Noodle

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/7908742/Axe-falls-on-NHS-services.html

"Restrictions on some of the most basic and common operations, including hip and knee replacements, cataract surgery and orthodontic procedures...Plans to cut hundreds of thousands of pounds from budgets for the terminally ill, with dying cancer patients to be told to manage their own symptoms if their condition worsens at evenings or weekends...The closure of nursing homes for the elderly."

And we all fall about laughing at those who believed the "NHS has been ringfenced" lies.

Pretty shocking really when you consider my mother-in-law had a hip operation on the NHS. That's the Thai NHS at the local city hospital up here in what is reputedly one of the worlds poor areas.

What was the cost of the bank bailouts (under a Labour government) again? Anyone remember? Anyone?

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Bang on the money - lots of talk of cuts - lots of talk of austerity...

But still managed to borrow 14.5bln from the markets last month!

Thats 500million a ******ing day!

What cuts???!!!???

The economy is so warped to cut[ strongly]should lead to a staggering economic contraction.

To " blag" to keep " investors" happy but try to do the unwinding and economic

realignment as slowly as possible is what a person with a brain would do.

Will it work who knows?

but when the dole stops- it's default , i won't say .....

Simply starving people don't xxxk about , they've seen their money given to a "banker" no politicing

can erase that.

Edited by Zngland

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This is pissi*g me off:-

http://www.telegraph...S-services.html

Every day we hear more tales of how there be no police or the NHS is be a box Bandaids & a bottle of Aspin................Lies!

Just how long before the market sees this for what it is, a f*cking smokescreen!

At present the last of the £200 Billion is flowing out the system & at some point the US/UK buying each others debt will stop............@ that point we will need to turn to the markets & by then EVERYONE else will as well. They must DO something, don't talk, don't think,don't discuss....DO!

Mike

Why is this all lies, bearing in mind the source is a right wing Tory newspaper. What's in it for them?

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The Germans are in China right now, China bought Spains bonds, thus saving the German banks.........deals being done....Goldman/JP Morgan Etc getting booted out of Euro-land after their RAPE. Where does this leave Blighty?

Mike

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This is pissi*g me off:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/7908742/Axe-falls-on-NHS-services.html

Every day we hear more tales of how there be no police or the NHS is be a box Bandaids & a bottle of Aspin................Lies!

Just how long before the market sees this for what it is, a f*cking smokescreen!

At present the last of the £200 Billion is flowing out the system & at some point the US/UK buying each others debt will stop............@ that point we will need to turn to the markets & by then EVERYONE else will as well. They must DO something, don't talk, don't think,don't discuss....DO!

Mike

Be careful what you wish for.

If in the years ahead you ever have to call upon the emergency services and they don't arrive then at the point of death I'm sure you'll be comforted by the fact that the smoke screen has been lifted.

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Pretty shocking really when you consider my mother-in-law had a hip operation on the NHS. That's the Thai NHS at the local city hospital up here in what is reputedly one of the worlds poor areas.

What was the cost of the bank bailouts (under a Labour government) again? Anyone remember? Anyone?

Would I be correct in saying that the "Thai NHS" is a relatively recent invention?

I read Thaksin (the socialist) introduced 10 baht hospitals where anybody could get treated,

that is quite surprising that you could get a hip operation, i would've thought it would

be quite restrictive in terms of what treatments were on offer. I guess the government must

be pumping quite a bit of money into this.

Thailand I think is a lot more free-market and libertarian than our society, at least pre Thaksin.

That's what makes it such a great place imho.

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Pretty shocking really when you consider my mother-in-law had a hip operation on the NHS. That's the Thai NHS at the local city hospital up here in what is reputedly one of the worlds poor areas.

What was the cost of the bank bailouts (under a Labour government) again? Anyone remember? Anyone?

Yep, and do you know what percentage of their GDP they spend on it to get that level of service..?

3.5% (£12.6bn), compared to our 8.2% (£120bn).

In other words, we should be able to slash NHS spending by over 50% and still achieve a high level of service. The problem with the NHS though is it's a cash colander.

Edited by libspero

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Be careful what you wish for.

If in the years ahead you ever have to call upon the emergency services and they don't arrive then at the point of death I'm sure you'll be comforted by the fact that the smoke screen has been lifted.

Pull the other one.. its got bells on!

In 2003 the NHS spent 50% of what it currently spends.. don't tell me 20-30% cuts would put us back in the dark ages!

1146732559.gif

(Chart courtesy BBC)

The only reason I can see for not cutting the NHS too severely is that due to an ageing demographic it's going to have a much higher work load in future.

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Guest Noodle

Would I be correct in saying that the "Thai NHS" is a relatively recent invention?

I read Thaksin (the socialist) introduced 10 baht hospitals where anybody could get treated,

that is quite surprising that you could get a hip operation, i would've thought it would

be quite restrictive in terms of what treatments were on offer. I guess the government must

be pumping quite a bit of money into this.

Thailand I think is a lot more free-market and libertarian than our society, at least pre Thaksin.

That's what makes it such a great place imho.

Quite extensive treatment now, 30 Baht a day.

On the libertarian bit. It actually isn't. Throw in price fixing (farmers can only sell rice at the government set price) then throw in corruption (although this is improving very slowly) and it ain't such a great place but not all bad.

When I first came up here it was third world awful. Now 9 years later it's pretty darn good. I moan occasionally but I always miss it.

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Guest Noodle

Yep, and do you know what percentage of their GDP they spend on it to get that level of service..?

3.5% (£12.6bn), compared to our 8.2% (£120bn).

In other words, we should be able to slash NHS spending by over 50% and still achieve a high level of service. The problem with the NHS though is it's a cash colander.

I've no idea. We farang can get treated here fairly cheap. My metformin comes to about £20 a year.

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On the libertarian bit. It actually isn't. Throw in price fixing (farmers can only sell rice at the government set price) then throw in corruption (although this is improving very slowly) and it ain't such a great place but not all bad.

I was vaguely aware of this rice-price-fixing thing, I believe there are also quotas on how much rice can actually

be exported. On a slight tangent I was reading an article the other day about how the price of a lot of Thai street food

is due to rise imminently due to the fact that sugar has exploded in price, and a lot of the locally produced

sugar has been exported (probably on the black-market).

Anyway the reason I made the comment about Thailand being free-market / libertarian two-fold, 1. thailand

has no/minimal social benefits as far as i'm aware 2. thailand has no minimum wage, 3. an end result of the

previous two points is that thailand has very low-unemployment, a good barometer of a healthy economy imho.

Edited by Dr Doom

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Guest Noodle

I was vaguely aware of this rice-price-fixing thing, I believe there are also quotas on how much rice can actually

be exported. On a slight tangent I was reading an article the other day about how the price of a lot of Thai street food

is due to rise imminently due to the fact that sugar has exploded in price, and a lot of the locally produced

sugar has been exported (probably on the black-market).

Anyway the reason I made the comment about Thailand being free-market / libertarian two-fold, 1. thailand

has no/minimal social benefits as far as i'm aware 2. thailand has no minimum wage, 3. an end result of the

previous two points is that thailand has very low-employment, a good barometer of a healthy economy imho.

Sugar does this from time to time. But it should be expensive because diabetes here is probably the biggest killer.

Does have social benefits. Many. Even seen a drunk trying to fill out a form to claim 100,000 Baht a year in dole recently. Then there's all the subsidy on electricity, no tax on fuel, subsidy on cooking gas, public transport. Then there are all the farmers benefits and soft loans that never get re-paid. Then the cow programmes. Then the planting incentives. No council tax. No income taxes or NI to speak of for most people.

Does have minimum wage (but it's low).

Has high unemployment, but it's masked as families (or me) look after each other and as the jobs run out most move back to the family farm.

The petty government stuff is creeping in too. Now you only have a month or 3000 km to get the red trade plates changed to white ones on new cars. 10,000 Baht fine. Only thing is they take 3 months to be issued.

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Does have social benefits. Many. Even seen a drunk trying to fill out a form to claim 100,000 Baht a year in dole recently.

Can I ask, if you know, what you need to qualify for this level of benefit ?

Then there's all the subsidy on electricity, no tax on fuel, subsidy on cooking gas, public transport. Then there are all the farmers benefits and soft loans that never get re-paid. Then the cow programmes. Then the planting incentives. No council tax. No income taxes or NI to speak of for most people.

I was aware of the fuel subsidy, but all the rest is kind of news to me. Where does

the money come from to fund it? Quantitive Easing? That would probably explain the

rampant inflation in recent years.

Has high unemployment, but it's masked as families (or me) look after each other and as the jobs run out most move back to the family farm.

I looked up the official rate of unemployment for Thailand and it currently stands at

~1-2%. The thing you say about families is very true, but this is what libertarians generally

advocate, that when things go bad people should be turning to family rather than government

for financial support.

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I wonder if they're doing a joined-up cost-benefit analysis; it's all very well saving the cost of a hip or cataract op, but there are also costs involved in a person being blind or suffering reduced mobility (and maybe more likely to fall or whatever).

Oh well maybe it will draw attention from the HB reforms :huh:

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Guest Noodle
Can I ask, if you know, what you need to qualify for this level of benefit ?

I have no idea. All I got out of his missus was a 'him have no job so government pay 100,000 baht for one year', along with a look of 'you're still single and you don't drink and falang have money'.

I was aware of the fuel subsidy, but all the rest is kind of news to me. Where does

the money come from to fund it? Quantitive Easing? That would probably explain the

rampant inflation in recent years.

The gas is from the PTT Oil company and it comes from the Gulf of Thailand. Lot of gas there. They are growing biofuels now, hence your sugar inflation. The diesel subsidy was cut to zero, it may even be very lightly taxed now not sure. The money comes from incredible foreign capital inflows (hence the foreign currency holdings) and from taxation of the big firms and on imports, huge import duties especially on luxury goods. The Lamborghini dealer in Bangkok says it's now 300% on the new LP670. Then 35% VAT on cars. 2% on commercials, so most drive 2-door pick-ups.

I looked up the official rate of unemployment for Thailand and it currently stands at

~1-2%. The thing you say about families is very true, but this is what libertarians generally

advocate, that when things go bad people should be turning to family rather than government

for financial support.

Yeah, I agree. But your tax regime is set up so people have no one to turn to but the UK government in most cases. To change to a system of self dependency first you need to get rid of most of your taxes so people can finance it themselves. Average guy must be paying 60-70% of his real income to the state all told.

This ain't gonna happen now because of the chaos created by a welfare state of not just individuals but the corporate welfare state of bank bailouts and Capita like contracts where firms are also dependent on the state . . . it's one hell of a supertanker to turn around is this.

That said, it's easy to get a job here for Thai's. This is a very lazy race of people, sorry but they do pride themselves on it. Many choose not to work and laze about at home, don't consume much, no costs. Can be very hard to find good staff here, desperately hard. But employers will employ because there's no to low risk. Hire and fire.

The UK is fraught with employment law. I've always been a day rate guy and said, just give me two days notice to clear away from site, all the notice I need. Always had work this way, I don't want employment law anywhere near me thanks . . . I'd rather have the work.

Oh just to add, this country gets very favourable treatment from the US via FTA's completely skewed in the Thai's favour (think back to the war with Vietnam) and Japan lavishes cash on it too. They also don't have a very complicated government system and living standards are lower than the West's. Post 1997 crash the King pushed for a sufficiency economy . . . which for some still isn't quite sufficient enough but it is getting there.

Edited by Noodle

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/7908742/Axe-falls-on-NHS-services.html

"Restrictions on some of the most basic and common operations, including hip and knee replacements, cataract surgery and orthodontic procedures...Plans to cut hundreds of thousands of pounds from budgets for the terminally ill, with dying cancer patients to be told to manage their own symptoms if their condition worsens at evenings or weekends...The closure of nursing homes for the elderly."

And we all fall about laughing at those who believed the "NHS has been ringfenced" lies.

Ringfenced in nominal terms. Which means savage cuts in activity when you factor in real inflation (not the fiddled ONS figure).

And of course ignoring the fact that demand is increasing exponentially.

Salaries have rocketed in the NHS. I was a GP in 2001 when 50-60k was considered a reasonable income. Now 120k is more or less the minimum. Most NHS salaries have increased in the same proportion. The main reason for this has been house price inflation. People have NEEDED large salary increases to afford housing. Where earnings haven't covered it, the difference is made up by tax credits and benefits (even to prople in professions with degrees), so the true cost of manning the service is an under-estimate because a lot of staff costs come from the welfare budget.

Add to this the fact that virtually everyone in the NHS needs a degree nowadays (physio, radiographers,nurses,dieticians, IT staff etc etc.) with the associated debt.

In order to stand still spending would have to double again over the next 7-10 years. It's a non-starter.

Edited by ingermany

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Pull the other one.. its got bells on!

In 2003 the NHS spent 50% of what it currently spends.. don't tell me 20-30% cuts would put us back in the dark ages!

1146732559.gif

(Chart courtesy BBC)

The only reason I can see for not cutting the NHS too severely is that due to an ageing demographic it's going to have a much higher work load in future.

My link

[The HPI paradigm is that house prices double every 7 years. NHS costs double every 7 years. This is not coincidence.

You don't need 20% cuts to put us in the dark ages. Keeping spending where it is now and waiting 3 years will get us there!

Edited by ingermany

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salary cuts, and big ones are needed.

may i make a suggestion.

MONDAY....50% cut for ALL public sector salaries above 25K. thats 50% OFF the salary above 25K. thats ALL staff.

No bonuses.

Pensions now linked to the salary index.

DRUGS.....sorry guys, but we are paying 50% as from MONDAY. now, lets get round the table to talk about those patents for 10 years.

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A lot of the money will go to the GP cooperatives (aka private businesses) so creaming it off for them will reduce the budget available to the hospitals.

The commissioning will balloon in size as the 51/52 PCT functions will now be replicated by however many cooperatives there are and it carries on for all the rest of the functions of the PCT/SHA's.

It's a political move as both lib dem and tory both want to privatise the NHS, and taking it out of public hands to basically make it controlled by the private sector is in line with their ideology.

Did we vote for this? I don't remember seeing this during the election campaigning. I feel robbed.

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  • 145 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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