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No Charges Over G20 Man's Death

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Au contraire.

I think it may suggest the troubles may have been good for McGuiness but the, isn't it tens of thousands badly hurt and is it between 1000 and 2000 people killed, to make no progress on a United Ireland, indeed to get the Republic to vote in a referendum to renounce it's territorial claim on the North ..... might suggest the contrary?

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Guest Steve Cook

Au contraire.

I think it may suggest the troubles may have been good for McGuiness but the, isn't it tens of thousands badly hurt and is it between 1000 and 2000 people killed, to make no progress on a United Ireland, indeed to get the Republic to vote in a referendum to renounce it's territorial claim on the North ..... might suggest the contrary?

The only thing the bastards ruling the show will understand is a ******ing wall against their backs!

However, given that the people of this country were well and truly tamed centuries ago by a ruthless aristocratic ruling elite, I won't be holding my breath.

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"Premise Thirteen: Those in power rule by force, and the sooner we break ourselves of illusions to the contrary, the sooner we can at least begin to make reasonable decisions about whether, when, and how we are going to resist."

- Derrick Jensen, Endgame, Volume 1.

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Au contraire.

I think it may suggest the troubles may have been good for McGuiness but the, isn't it tens of thousands badly hurt and is it between 1000 and 2000 people killed, to make no progress on a United Ireland, indeed to get the Republic to vote in a referendum to renounce it's territorial claim on the North ..... might suggest the contrary?

Good for the leaders of the movement, depends where you are on the cynicism scale as to how well aligned you think their aims were with the general population that supported the cause.

It's like the miner's strikes. Their self-promoting leader on the make got TV airtime, and a fat union salary, and Thatcher got a gift-wrapped opportunity to look tough in the face of union militancy. Those that backed the cause on the picket lines did a lot less well.

Violence does get results, even if primarily for the ring-leaders and perpetrators. The fact that an educated, squeamish middle-class recoil from it, by default, is possibly a contributing factor to its success.

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"Premise Thirteen: Those in power rule by force, and the sooner we break ourselves of illusions to the contrary, the sooner we can at least begin to make reasonable decisions about whether, when, and how we are going to resist."

- Derrick Jensen, Endgame, Volume 1.

The problem is once you break a tyranny another one comes along pretty darned quickly to replace the original tyranny and rules by force again...

I just finished reading the moon is a harsh mistress.... after the Federated Nations capitulate after bombardment, the Lunar society again gravitates towards a rule/fiat based state again and again.

There are few states which have gone the otherway.. Taiwan is a limited example, except it went from a corrupt fascist totalitarian state to a fascist go through the motions democracy... which is even more facist than China tbh yet because they have go through the motions 'democracy' nobody ever says anything about them.

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Thanks for reminding me - I loved that book. (I'm a sucker for anything with a burgeoning artificial intelligence surpassing human abilities in it.)

yeah bike Mike was killed off at the end of the book too though.

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The problem is once you break a tyranny another one comes along pretty darned quickly to replace the original tyranny and rules by force again...

I just finished reading the moon is a harsh mistress.... after the Federated Nations capitulate after bombardment, the Lunar society again gravitates towards a rule/fiat based state again and again.

There are few states which have gone the otherway.. Taiwan is a limited example, except it went from a corrupt fascist totalitarian state to a fascist go through the motions democracy... which is even more facist than China tbh yet because they have go through the motions 'democracy' nobody ever says anything about them.

That's the nature of those seeking power - it's always the psychos that end up at the top of any hierarchy. It's why a radical restructuring of democracy is needed. We need to grow up and stop pretending that those in power will do what we want if we ask nicely, or that voting in another party will make a difference. It makes me sad to see the displays of hopeful/desperate naivety on here and elsewhere that our new government will be different from any other, that a few tax tweaks here and there will make any difference, that there has been any change whatsoever to the power structure. The ruling elite will do as they want, the police are there to protect their property and the status quo, we are here to do as we are told, with the carrot dangled in front of us that at some point in the distant future, if we work hard enough, we might be a bit more free.

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Yes, yes, worthy sentiments until you find out it's your back against the wall.

And yet 8 million people have their backs against the wall right now and the government has just decide that they should be slaves.

Your sentiment is the luxury of those without their backs against the wall, when you truly get to that position you realise that you have nothing left to loose but you do have plenty of anger to fuel a rebellion with.

So dismiss it with a "yes, yes I'm so clever sentiment" if you wish, but those 8 million others are going to disagree, violently...

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Of course you may have a valid point there. My back is not against the wall, yet. Although who knows what the future may hold?

But I think you would agree the collective wisdom of the British people is that it takes a greater spark than the tragic and unlawful death of poor Mr Tomlinson to kick off our first bloody revolution since 1642.

And I would say the collective wisdom of the British is to be respected.

And I am right that the correct course is a properly funded private prosecution with a competent "pr" operation behind it.

If the powers that be slap justice back in the face a second time, then maybe yes, we do move close to a blood in the gutters situation.

But we shouldn't go there until we've tried plan b.

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Of course you may have a valid point there. My back is not against the wall, yet. Although who knows what the future may hold?

But I think you would agree the collective wisdom of the British people is that it takes a greater spark than the tragic and unlawful death of poor Mr Tomlinson to kick off our first bloody revolution since 1642.

And I would say the collective wisdom of the British is to be respected.

And I am right that the correct course is a properly funded private prosecution with a competent "pr" operation behind it.

If the powers that be slap justice back in the face a second time, then maybe yes, we do move close to a blood in the gutters situation.

But we shouldn't go there until we've tried plan b.

I'd donate to such a worthy cause.

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Of course you may have a valid point there. My back is not against the wall, yet. Although who knows what the future may hold?

But I think you would agree the collective wisdom of the British people is that it takes a greater spark than the tragic and unlawful death of poor Mr Tomlinson to kick off our first bloody revolution since 1642.

And I would say the collective wisdom of the British is to be respected.

And I am right that the correct course is a properly funded private prosecution with a competent "pr" operation behind it.

If the powers that be slap justice back in the face a second time, then maybe yes, we do move close to a blood in the gutters situation.

But we shouldn't go there until we've tried plan b.

1642?

So the example I gave of female emancipation achieved through violence doesn't count?

You state that 'I am right the correct course is a properly funded private prosecution with a competent "pr" operation behind it' when I have already pointed out that the CPS will simply slap it down because they can.

Let me ask you something, simple yes and no answer, do you think that corrupt coppers are more or less likely to beat us to death on the streets of our own capital when they know that the consequences of doing so are that their own family will be dead before nightfall?

Your 'faith in the power of a good pr campaign' is grade A ******** and you know it, they have far more control over the press than we ever will and the police have a much bigger PR budget.

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I said earlier I was not persuaded by your view of what brought women the vote.

If the CPS "slap down" a private prosecution and a judicial review of that decision fails then riot or insurrection have a better foundation. Violence is serious. It should not be undertaken lightly and not until other avenues have been exhausted, which they haven't at the moment.

No. But I really do not think we should be killing the families of corrupt coppers.

I don't think anyone has control over the press in this internet age and the filth are shyte at pr and always have been, regardless of their budget.

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I said earlier I was not persuaded by your view of what brought women the vote.

If the CPS "slap down" a private prosecution and a judicial review of that decision fails then riot or insurrection have a better foundation. Violence is serious. It should not be undertaken lightly and not until other avenues have been exhausted, which they haven't at the moment.

No. But I really do not think we should be killing the families of corrupt coppers.

I don't think anyone has control over the press in this internet age and the filth are shyte at pr and always have been, regardless of their budget.

So the violence associated with female emancipation was an exception? I assume you have vast amounts of evidence to draw on demonstrating thousands of cases where peaceful protest led to revolutionary change?

If not your point is meaningless. regardless of your persuasion, the women's lib movement was accompanied by huge amounts of violence and it just so happens that they got their wishes.

I also do not think that in an ideal world we should be killing the families of coppers, but we do not live in an ideal world, we live in a world where as things stand the police can beat our family to death on the streets of our own capital, on camera and get off scot free. This is not right or just.

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No, to restate what i said earlier, women got the vote because of their contribution in WWI, not because some ditzy cow wandered under the Kings horse or another one set light to Lloyd George's house.

And making a less than ideal world worse with unnecessary/premature blood spilt is not a good idea.

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  • 220 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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