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helenreed

Marrying For The Pension

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My Italian boyfriend has just returned from holiday in his homeland, a small, pretty poor, rural part of Sicily.

He has a childless, 92 year old uncle who has a female neighbour (45ish) who looks after him and the deal is that she will care for him until he dies at which time she will inherit his house. Apparently this is quite normal in southern Italy if you don't have immediate family to look after you. This female neighbour has recently met a man and they want to get married. My boyfriend's uncle has suggested that neighbour marry him instead (all above board) so that when he dies she will get his pension as well as his house. Pension otherwise will die with him. My boyfriends family all agree this is a good thing to do, after all they would not benefit so it makes no difference to them, and plans are afoot for the 'wedding'.

An old schoolfriend of my partner has recently started a relationship and the his family are agreed that she should marry the mans father (widower) so that she will get his pension and this will be money for her and her boyfriend for a good few years once the father has died.

My boyfriend said the whole village is talking about ways of not letting pensions die off with the oldies and apparently other plans similar to this are afoot. My boyfriend can't believe it but thinks it's absolutely great as does the whole community. Apparently pension, or large part of it, transfers to spouse on death in Italy automatically. Is it more difficult here? Do people already do it?

My boyfriend tells me that although I am older than him, I am useless to him as I have no pension. He now has his eye on an eighty five year old widow back in Sicily!

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I think that most public sector pensions work rather like you suggest. I will receive three groats a fortnight from previous public sector employment. Mrs p-o-p will receive a widow's pension of 1.5 groats per fortnight when I snuff it. I can diddle around with the figures if it looks like I'm going first and make more over to her. Not worth it at the moment because my youngest will get one groat a fortnight until he reaches majority if I snuff it now.

p-o-p

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But I assume you got married because you fell in love, are roughly the same age as your partner etc. etc.

I have never heard a British friend or family member suggest that a person marries an aged relative to get the pension.

Incidentally both of the aged people were not ex-government workers and the amounts mentioned would be roughly pensions of 1,000 Euros per month.

Seems quite good income in a place where an average house in the village costs £30,000-40,000.

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But I assume you got married because you fell in love, are roughly the same age as your partner etc. etc.

I have never heard a British friend or family member suggest that a person marries an aged relative to get the pension.

Incidentally both of the aged people were not ex-government workers and the amounts mentioned would be roughly pensions of 1,000 Euros per month.

Seems quite good income in a place where an average house in the village costs £30,000-40,000.

Yes.

Only because people haven't twigged yet.

p-o-p

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Does this mean that widowed, aging public sector management workers are the new target for golddiggers?

Better bet than a Porsche driving property developer I suppose.

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TBH it's quite a clever idea, however I hope it doesn't take off otherwise pensions will be even crapper by the time my generation retires, if the word still exists in 40 years time!

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I've been thinking more and more about this. It is totally unsustainable.

Assuming Italian uncle retired at 65. He is now 92 so has been receiving pension for 27 years. If he marries the 45 year old now and then dies and she then lives until she is 75 it would mean this pension carrying on, after the uncle finished work, for 57 years. If she lives until 85 or even 95...

Am I right? This is ridiculous.

Bloody hell!

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I've been thinking more and more about this. It is totally unsustainable.

Assuming Italian uncle retired at 65. He is now 92 so has been receiving pension for 27 years. If he marries the 45 year old now and then dies and she then lives until she is 75 it would mean this pension carrying on, after the uncle finished work, for 57 years. If she lives until 85 or even 95...

Am I right? This is ridiculous.

Bloody hell!

So we can expect a large austerity bill in Italy in the not-too-distant?

The German taxpayers must be loving all of this. If it's not £20m spent on Greek sex lines, it's Italians with "super-annuity" pensions.

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It won't be long before the pension companies insist that if the marriage wasn't consummated then it wasn't valid and no payment is due. :P (and B) if you're the pensioner and have any chance of some action with a younger lady at that age)

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Does this mean that widowed, aging public sector management workers are the new target for golddiggers?

Better bet than a Porsche driving property developer I suppose.

A point of minor historical interest - our system of registration of births, deaths and marriages was mainly concerned with marriages. Navy chaps did use to have a 'wife' in every port (what we would now call a common law wife). This resulted in multiple claims for widows' pensions. TPTB clamped down and that is why the system was introduced.

The Sicilians are nearly 200 years behind us when it comes to widows' pension 'fraud' and, even now, are working on consecutive, rather than concurrent, claims.

p-o-p

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Does this mean that widowed, aging public sector management workers are the new target for golddiggers?

Better bet than a Porsche driving property developer I suppose.

Just to upset you more - said gold-digger is more than likely in the public sector too and building up her own pension at the same time.

p-o-p

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Wario - I must ask my boyfriend if Burt's Sicilian accent is any good. Or was he dubbed?

Boyfriend also tells me there an English bloke who has suddenly appeared in his village trying to get the English to buy property there. This bloke has been bought in by the local MP (who also happens to be quite a bigwig in the Italian government and friend of Silvio) to bring in some money. Houses are 1 Euro but you have to renovate them within three years to a certain habitable standard. I suppose the thinking is that local builders/workers can gain employment in the ensuing property boom! Of course the costs of the renovations means you would be spending the 30,000 Euros you could buy a finished house for anyway. Apparently he has not, a year on, sold one house to an English person.

I asked the boyfriend what this English bloke is like. Answer - "cretino".

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Guest Noodle

Wario - I must ask my boyfriend if Burt's Sicilian accent is any good. Or was he dubbed?

Boyfriend also tells me there an English bloke who has suddenly appeared in his village trying to get the English to buy property there. This bloke has been bought in by the local MP (who also happens to be quite a bigwig in the Italian government and friend of Silvio) to bring in some money. Houses are 1 Euro but you have to renovate them within three years to a certain habitable standard. I suppose the thinking is that local builders/workers can gain employment in the ensuing property boom! Of course the costs of the renovations means you would be spending the 30,000 Euros you could buy a finished house for anyway. Apparently he has not, a year on, sold one house to an English person.

I asked the boyfriend what this English bloke is like. Answer - "cretino".

Really? Hmmmmm . . .

Projecto fantastico for us buildie types.

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Wario - I must ask my boyfriend if Burt's Sicilian accent is any good. Or was he dubbed?

Boyfriend also tells me there an English bloke who has suddenly appeared in his village trying to get the English to buy property there. This bloke has been bought in by the local MP (who also happens to be quite a bigwig in the Italian government and friend of Silvio) to bring in some money. Houses are 1 Euro but you have to renovate them within three years to a certain habitable standard. I suppose the thinking is that local builders/workers can gain employment in the ensuing property boom! Of course the costs of the renovations means you would be spending the 30,000 Euros you could buy a finished house for anyway. Apparently he has not, a year on, sold one house to an English person.

I asked the boyfriend what this English bloke is like. Answer - "cretino".

What's wrong with the idea. £25000 for a holiday home doesn't seem unreasonable.

What are property taxes and running costs?

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Why does your partner have to be the same age? My girlfriend is 20 years my senior! She does have a little flat, but barely any pension (which is a worry)! Come on, helenreed - I thought love was without barriers such as age and that a woman would be first to say so.

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Guest theboltonfury

Why does your partner have to be the same age? My girlfriend is 20 years my senior! She does have a little flat, but barely any pension (which is a worry)! Come on, helenreed - I thought love was without barriers such as age and that a woman would be first to say so.

Don't be worried. You can get that sorted pretty easy these days. Maybe even on the NHS.

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Can you expand, please?

I keep quoting her figures of how much she'd need for an income of £x per annum - and she realises it's a worry, but her years of saving are less now she's older and I don't think she'll hit anywhere near the target..... it does worry me quite a lot, to be honest.

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snip

Is it more difficult here? Do people already do it?

Three decades ago my mother married my step-father specifically because he had lung cancer and was told the odds were he had only three years to live. They'd been getting on fine for years without the legal bit of paper, the purpose was to ensure she'd be supported by his pension after his death. (In those days divorce tended to be quite favourable to men and my mother was relatively poorly provided for following her divorce from my father. )

(He lived another 28 years.)

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  • 140 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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