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Tories Stamp On Vince

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-10711568

I have to say that I told you this would happen.

The Tories could not stomach a rise in Income Tax for their core vote.

It is quite provocative as the Universities are within Vince's Secretarial brief.

What now? This is a real putdown for a senior Libcon politician.

Vince has made the Tories show their hand as to the limits of Coalition 'understanding'.

Bring on the Conference season.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-10711568

I have to say that I told you this would happen.

The Tories could not stomach a rise in Income Tax for their core vote.

It is quite provocative as the Universities are within Vince's Secretarial brief.

What now? This is a real putdown for a senior Libcon politician.

Vince has made the Tories show their hand as to the limits of Coalition 'understanding'.

Bring on the Conference season.

The LibDems have really dropped a bollock getting in bed with the Tories.

The Tories wont conceed on anything that really matters to them.

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I have a feeling the libdems have been happy to let this one go. It's massively complicated and quiet silly compared to the graduates paying back money when they earn over 15k.

In their manifesto it said "We will get rid of fees for going to university so everyone has the chance to go." and "Fair tax and pay"

Watch out for something else being moved around. There's a game afoot.

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I have a feeling the libdems have been happy to let this one go. It's massively complicated and quiet silly compared to the graduates paying back money when they earn over 15k.

Its a nice idea on the surface but when you think about it its s very stupid idea too - many unintended consequences.

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The whole point of the Graduate Tax is to aid the availability of student loan financing.

The banks weren't just securitizing mortgages, they were doing it with student debt too. (and every other form of debt)

Now the Securitization Scam is no longer functioning, the banks cannot float the student debt off their balance sheets any more. They have to keep them on their own books, therefore they actually want the money repaid, and no sane bank will lend such sums to people who will never realistically be able to pay them off. A graduate tax is a way of making payments more certain, therefore reassuring the banks enough to originate the loans.

If the Tories block the graduate tax, get ready for massive reductions in student numbers, and absolute Armageddon in the Universities, THIS YEAR. The Student loan system is in a state of collapse. They blamed last years trouble at The Student Loans Company on bad admin etc.., but they can't keep that smokescreen going much longer.

If the young are refused entry to Uni, then they can't be hidden from the unemployment numbers any longer.

The Student/University Bubble is bursting as we speak.

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Watch out for something else being moved around. There's a game afoot.

The only thing being moved around are the LibDems. The game involves the Tories keeping the LibDems thinking they have even a teeny tiny bit of influence for as long as possible.

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Spot on wtb.

University financing has been another debt ponzi scheme with an array of vested interests behind it. It's modelled on the US where graduates cannot discharge their debts in bankruptcy and face a lifetime of salary garnish and debt servitude

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Its a nice idea on the surface but when you think about it its s very stupid idea too - many unintended consequences.

absolutely spot on.

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Spot on wtb.

University financing has been another debt ponzi scheme with an array of vested interests behind it. It's modelled on the US where graduates cannot discharge their debts in bankruptcy and face a lifetime of salary garnish and debt servitude

as you only have to make payments when you reach a certain salary level and any remaining debt is written off after 20 years I think that's a bit of an extreme description

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as you only have to make payments when you reach a certain salary level and any remaining debt is written off after 20 years I think that's a bit of an extreme description

That's the problem. Would you lend to a student on that basis? The banks won't do it, now securitisation is dead.

That's why they've tried to push a graduate tax, as it ensures repayment, at least somewhat. Reassuring the banks that it's safe to lend.

Come September/October time, this thing is gonna start blowing up.

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as you only have to make payments when you reach a certain salary level and any remaining debt is written off after 20 years I think that's a bit of an extreme description

Not in the US, which is where we were heading before the credit crunch

Student loans have been a big part of the great Ponzi - that massive increase in student numbers and courses would not have been possible without them.

Now that GD II is decimating the relative economic value of many degree courses, this too will collapse. As this plays out, secular attitudes to debt will change, and people will regard the size of (US) student loans during this era as an anomalous horror

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Things are already pretty bad for the university sector. 20 percent cuts plus have been trailed for quite some time, and the notion of the state only funding stem subjects is pretty much on the cards.

I have no idea how you could fund the present university system as it stands. Student loans are problematic -- some 25 per cent of all graduates that graduated before 1997 still haven't paid off their loans to date, and there is the very serious issue of perpetually low graduate salaries in some disciplines. I suspect we will end up like the US, with a British version of the Ivy League where a three year degree costs the student £90K in fees and living costs, and the rest of the sector left to muddle along.

The real way to sort the issue would be to shift knowledge and learning levels downwards -- so A2s teach at first year undergraduate level, and level 2 and 3 could be accumulated in blocks at a later date, level 2 and 3 modules maybe even offered on a night school attendance basis or at weekends where you pay per module basis. But this would mean a complete overhaul of the education system as it stands, and it just isn't going to happen.

I feel very sad about all this. I think it is profoundly unjust for young people who do not come from wealthy families. But the money is just not there.

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Guest absolutezero

The real way to sort the issue would be to shift knowledge and learning levels downwards -- so A2s teach at first year undergraduate level, and level 2 and 3 could be accumulated in blocks at a later date.....

They already do.

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Its a nice idea on the surface but when you think about it its s very stupid idea too - many unintended consequences.

yes like the best graduates emigrating once they finished university.

assume it was 5% as suggested - and say a good graduate could earn an average of £80k over the first 20 years (clearly less at start etc) - they could end up paying £65k for the priviledge of going to university!

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as you only have to make payments when you reach a certain salary level and any remaining debt is written off after 20 years I think that's a bit of an extreme description

Balance these days is written off at 65.

Which is kind.

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It's a silly idea. Yes let's have a tall white bloke tax. Bet everyone then wants to be a black lesbian midget (for tax reasons) :blink:

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Guest absolutezero

No they don't. Do you do much calculus or quantum mechanics in A level physics at your school?

Plenty calculus in A level Maths when I did it and a fair amount of QM in A level physics.

The more complicated stuff didn't start until the second year of my degree.

The entire first year of my BSc Physics degree was a repeat of A level.

It always annoyed me that I could have done the degree in 2 years had I been allowed to skip year 1.

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I have a feeling the libdems have been happy to let this one go. It's massively complicated and quiet silly compared to the graduates paying back money when they earn over 15k.

In their manifesto it said "We will get rid of fees for going to university so everyone has the chance to go." and "Fair tax and pay"

Watch out for something else being moved around. There's a game afoot.

There is something going on and I'm not sure the Lib Dems are at all happy. What is hard to work out is why Vince did this in the first place. There is already a review running on student funding that Labour started and the Coalition (even when they were the Opposition) agreed to. This is set to report next year and part of their terms of reference was to examine the case for different fee structures, 'graduate tax' and so on. So in the first place, Vince was commenting on an issue that he has already agreed will be settled by a review he isn't supposed to influence (that being the point of an independent review). My suspicion is this has more to do with politics internal to the LibDems themselves than it has to do with the real issues.

http://hereview.inde...ov.uk/hereview/

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The entire first year of my BSc Physics degree was a repeat of A level.

It always annoyed me that I could have done the degree in 2 years had I been allowed to skip year 1.

u wot?

My recollection of my maths degree is that one of the lecturers gave us the complete A-level syllabus in something less than one lecture, and it just accelerated from there!

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Guest absolutezero

u wot?

My recollection of my maths degree is that one of the lecturers gave us the complete A-level syllabus in something less than one lecture, and it just accelerated from there!

When was this?

I did my degree in 1998 and I'm told things have got worse since.

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  • 150 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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