U K Tenants Insecurity Explains Our "obsession" With Ownership

[Tired of Waiting]

Well written comment, by a the Telegraph reader, explaining to the article's author that UK tenants insecurity explains our "obsession" with ownership and the "anger of the 'priced out' generation."

by dogsolitude_v2, Today 02:04 PM

"the peculiar national obsession with owning one's home seems to have encouraged the view that this is a sensible alternative to investing in a pension. "

A quick reminder: tenants in the UK have few of the rights that tenants on the continent enjoy.

A tenant in the UK can be booted out of their home with two months notice, no reason given, and no chance of appeal.

There is no security in being a tenant in the UK, thus making it a very undesirable state to be in.

On the continent, French tenants are given six months notice should the Landlord want the property back, and in Germany notice periods are often longer. In both cases there is a right to appeal the decision.

In France and Germany a tenancy agreement is also typically drawn up as a long-term undertaking, and tenants can treat the place as their own, vis a vis redecorating. Not so in the UK.

When you actually consider the fact that every tenant in the UK dreads waking up to that letter landing on the doormat, and really think about what it means to potentially have your home taken from you pretty much at a whim, the British 'obsession' with owning homes may not seem so strange.

Likewise the anger of the 'priced out' generation may start to make more sense.

link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/7901958/There-is-trouble-ahead-if-interest-rates-rises.html

[_w_]

Well written comment, by a the Telegraph reader, explaining to the article's author that UK tenants insecurity explains our "obsession" with ownership and the "anger of the 'priced out' generation."

link: http://www.telegraph...ates-rises.html

Good piece. The state of tenancy in this country is simply a disgrace.

[Tired of Waiting]

Good piece. ( / ) The state of tenancy in this country is simply a disgrace.

It was. ( / ) It is.

[right_freds_dead]

i would not mind renting if it had any security but it doesnt and so we are the bankers playthings. its obscene the lack of tenant rights in the uk. no pets no children is very common. how can you possibly dictate if a person has children or not ?

sick society. everyman for himself i say.

[Liquid Goldfish]

For those not old enough to remember, the current scheme of assured shorthold tenancies dates from 1989.

Before that most tenants had protected/regulated tenancies where it was much harder/impossible to get tenants out and also rent control was much tighter.

Although before 1989 it was still possible for a landlord to grant a tenancy with very little security. It was called a "protected shorthold tenancy". It was much trickier to set up though than an AST.

EDIT - jsut googled "protedted shorthold". They were only introduced in 1980, so clearly an early strike by the Thatcher governemnt against tenants rights before wholesale change in 1989. Before 1980 it seems all tenants had full protection.

Edited July 21, 2010 by oldsport

[winkie]

Good piece. The state of tenancy in this country is simply a disgrace.

......a terrible state of affairs, things desperately need to change, what security or stability do young working parents have living in a private rented shorthold tenancy property....only those on benefits or those who are lucky enough to have their mortgage interest paid for have that luxury....we do not live in a fair society any longer.

[Tired of Waiting]

i would not mind renting if it had any security but it doesnt and so we are the bankers playthings. its obscene the lack of tenant rights in the uk. no pets no children is very common. how can you possibly dictate if a person has children or not ?

sick society. everyman for himself i say.

Yep. Well said.

Like _w_ said, it is disgraceful.

[Lucifer]

i would not mind renting if it had any security but it doesnt and so we are the bankers playthings. its obscene the lack of tenant rights in the uk. no pets no children is very common. how can you possibly dictate if a person has children or not ?

sick society. everyman for himself i say.

Get used to it, its the next step in disposessing and empoverishing us. Mortgages for FTB'rs are being wound up. Property is now just another commodity..when prices of property do drop by any degree you watch how it ends up in the hands of the rich and institutional buyers: everyone else will have to rent, a captive market fit for plucking (and f*cking).

[Tired of Waiting]

Get used to it, its the next step in disposessing and empoverishing us. Mortgages for FTB'rs are being wound up. Property is now just another commodity..when prices of property do drop by any degree you watch how it ends up in the hands of the rich and institutional buyers: everyone else will have to rent, a captive market fit for plucking (and f*cking).

That is indeed a risk. There is one way out though: The bottom of the market will not arrive in less than at least 2 or 3 years. So we have some time. We must save as much as possible for a deposit. And when we get near the bottom, we must buy something, even if it is just a studio, even if it is in a cheaper area, but we will have to be able to buy something.

[rxe]

For a sane landlord, I have no idea why the current situation is perceived as good. Changing tenants costs money - I want our tenants to be in as long as possible. I want them to like the place and treat it well. If they want to change something, I'm more than happy to listen. If they want a different shade of white on the walls, fine. If they want to paint it matt black, then as long as they rectify it afterwards (or lose their deposit), fine.

6 months notice would be perfectly OK, kids fine, pets fine - as long as they understand that if their cat trashes the new sofa, it will cost them. In return, it would be good to be able to boot out non-payers rather more quickly.

[@contradevian]

Another good point is the damage its doing to communities. Whole streets and developments are suffering "death by excessive BTL" little more than dormitary blocks where tenants come and go, never able to put down roots, or get involved with the community.

[Cozza]

Well written comment, by a the Telegraph reader, explaining to the article's author that UK tenants insecurity explains our "obsession" with ownership and the "anger of the 'priced out' generation."

link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/7901958/There-is-trouble-ahead-if-interest-rates-rises.html

One consolation is that landlords sometimes get the Section 21 Notice wrong, which means that the tenant can stay until the notice is corrected and further two months have passed.

The French model is much better with usually a 3 year tenancy agreement which can be automatically renewed by a further 3 years and rent increases during this time governed by an inflation statistic tool. This is why the French can adopt the laisser faire attitude towards home ownership, unlike chez nus.

[Deckard]

The French model is much better with usually a 3 year tenancy agreement which can be automatically renewed by a further 3 years and rent increases during this time governed by an inflation statistic tool. This is why the French can adopt the laisser faire attitude towards home ownership, unlike chez nus.

It's pretty much the same in Italy, the standard contract is 4+4 years.

Good for tenants, no doubt about that - but doesn't make home ownership one iota easier.

HPI in Italy is much, much worse than the UK, and FTBs even worse off.

Edited July 21, 2010 by VoteWithYourFeet

[Tired of Waiting]

(...) landlords sometimes get the Section 21 Notice wrong, which means that the tenant can stay until the notice is corrected and further two months have passed.

(...)

That is interesting. If you could, please explain a little more?

[Tired of Waiting]

HPI in Italy is much, much worse than the UK, and FTBs even worse off.

Really?! How come?

[winkie]

Another good point is the damage its doing to communities. Whole streets and developments are suffering "death by excessive BTL" little more than dormitary blocks where tenants come and go, never able to put down roots, or get involved with the community.

Yes, where once the road was all owner occupied, over the years the owners did not sell to buy when they moved, they let to buy, so whole streets slowly turned into BTL property, different people coming and going, good neighbours and bad.The owners left have to sell up at a discount to another BTLer.......whole communities therefore change, little sense of pride, gardens become overgrown, paintwork peeling etc...property prices fall faster, no one wins.

[Deckard]

Really?! How come?

clicky linky

[Cozza]

That is interesting. If you could, please explain a little more?

If a landlord gets the dates wrong on the form, uses the wrong form completely, or fails to secure the deposit in a protection scheme/fails to pass on the details of the deposit protection scheme, the landlord has to start all over again until he gets it right.

[Tired of Waiting]

clicky linky

Cheers.

I think Italy and Britain are probably the 2 countries with the most strict planning controls in the planet! I am sure that made the housing problem worse there.

[Tired of Waiting]

If a landlord gets the dates wrong on the form, uses the wrong form completely, or fails to secure the deposit in a protection scheme/fails to pass on the details of the deposit protection scheme, the landlord has to start all over again until he gets it right.

Thanks. I will make a note of it.

[Guest sillybear2]

You're hostage to third party agreements that you have no knowledge or influence over, look at the recent cases on here that people have experienced first hand, an over-leveraged BTL landlord defaults and the bank wants their house back, and the tenant is duly turfed out.

That's bad enough, factor in that risk with a family with children in the local schools. I don't blame people for not wanting to be second class citizens (renters).

Edited July 21, 2010 by sillybear2

[miko]

The Anger of the priced out Generation,

The Generation coming into their adulthood now are not just priced out of the housing market , they are now totally at the edges of what we did have as a society.

They have so little , very poor job prospects, very little security of jobs and homes, if they could afford anything to put in a pension they have seen those destroyed, many are lumbered with massive debt after being encoraged to do too many degrees.

The way things are going a few very bright highly educated people, or those who's parents have the right connections are going to be in the top jobs with good pay. The rest are going to be on minimum wage most if not all their life , with long periods unemployed and working for benefits.

The ones with good pay will buy houses the others will have to wait for their parents to give up the ghost and leave them money. For those who's parents do not own a home or sell it and spend the money instead of leaving it for their kids will have nothing.

No wonder this generation drink and drug take to excess. There is no alternative , no wonder so many young girls just get themselves preganant . We knock people for doing this and reling on the state to pay for them , but what alternative is on offer.

When I bought my first home 24 years ago I needed to go on the night shift to pay for it , night shift paid a 50% preminum. I remember an older woman saying to me i do not envey the young of today and I could not understand her point. Today i do not envery the young for the above reasons.

[Lucifer]

The Anger of the priced out Generation,

The Generation coming into their adulthood now are not just priced out of the housing market , they are now totally at the edges of what we did have as a society.

They have so little , very poor job prospects, very little security of jobs and homes, if they could afford anything to put in a pension they have seen those destroyed, many are lumbered with massive debt after being encoraged to do too many degrees.

The way things are going a few very bright highly educated people, or those who's parents have the right connections are going to be in the top jobs with good pay. The rest are going to be on minimum wage most if not all their life , with long periods unemployed and working for benefits.

The ones with good pay will buy houses the others will have to wait for their parents to give up the ghost and leave them money. For those who's parents do not own a home or sell it and spend the money instead of leaving it for their kids will have nothing.

No wonder this generation drink and drug take to excess. There is no alternative , no wonder so many young girls just get themselves preganant . We knock people for doing this and reling on the state to pay for them , but what alternative is on offer.

When I bought my first home 24 years ago I needed to go on the night shift to pay for it , night shift paid a 50% preminum. I remember an older woman saying to me i do not envey the young of today and I could not understand her point. Today i do not envery the young for the above reasons.

+1. Spot on.

[Guest sillybear2]

+1. Spot on.

Younger workers are also being forced to make up the shortfalls in pension deficits, because a bunch of people want more out than they put in, they have to do this despite not being able to build up such 'entitlements' for themselves.

[Lucifer]

Younger workers are also being forced to make up the shortfalls in pension deficits, because a bunch of people want more out than they put in, they have to do this despite not being able to build up such 'entitlements' for themselves.

Correct. I guess one of the features of the brand of parasite capitalism that we are living under, is that we eat our own children.