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aa3

Spanish Economic Development Since 1980-

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A trick some western economists used to use to judge economic trends in the third world was to look at electrical production growth. For some reason it is a statistic which is quite blatant and not manipulated. If a country is claiming remarkable industrial development but electrical output is not rising it calls it into question. Otoh rapidly rising electrical output can add legitacemy to claims.

I want to compare Spain to 3 other nations. Britain, France and and Poland. Nations that have taken quite different paths to economic development since 1980. The years I will use are 1980, 1990, 2000 and 2008. Measured in billion kilowatthours. And the final number being per capita output 2008 in kilowatthours.

Spain 1980: 108.579

1990: 143.661

2000: 208.402

2008: 289.167

Per capita: 6,286.

Britain 1980: 264.918

1990: 298.307

2000: 352.390

2008: 362.903

Per capita: 5,949.

France 1980: 250.518

1990: 396.166 (titanic growth through the 80's)

2000: 509.893

2008: 540.259

Per capita: 8,856.

Poland 1980: 113.449

1990: 125.947

2000: 133.915

2008: 144.664

Per capita: 3,806.

Edited by aa3

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Conclusions and observations from my comparison. I think we might be under-estimating the real development that has gone on in Spain since 1980. Electrical production has risen by 2.67 times during the period.

In 1980 per capita electrical production in Spain was only 53% that of the UK. But by 2008 it had risen to 105% the UK level.

In 1980 France was about the same as the UK in per capita output. But by 2008 it had risen to 150% the UK level. Imo that is the expansion of French industry. As on the consumer level it seems to me the French do not consume more than people in the UK.

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Yep, but now demand has risen, Don Quixote is screwing up their windfarms.

That said they are among the world leaders in wind power technology with the likes of Iderbrola Renovables.

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These are the figures for electricity production and not consumption.

Britain is linked to France by large undersea cables, the power is converted from AC to DC and then converted back to AC 230v 50Hz this side of the Channel.

This means we use a lot more nuclear generated electricity then people think, it's just that we import it from the French.

A country that produces electricity may well not consume it all, thanks to electrical grids that pass borders.

Edited by Lord D'arcy Pew

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In 1980 France was about the same as the UK in per capita output. But by 2008 it had risen to 150% the UK level. Imo that is the expansion of French industry. As on the consumer level it seems to me the French do not consume more than people in the UK.

Just proves what a miracle economy we have here with the City which adds so much to GDP with hardly any energy input at all.

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Also what was the increase in the number of TV's etc... in the economy.

If more consumer electrical equipment gets sold your going to consumer more electricity.

Computer use has also exploded in the workplace.

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Also what was the increase in the number of TV's etc... in the economy.

If more consumer electrical equipment gets sold your going to consumer more electricity.

Computer use has also exploded in the workplace.

It is all that sporting success Spain are enjoying, hours, days in front of the TV. We turn off after 20mins.

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These are the figures for electricity production and not consumption.

Britain is linked to France by large undersea cables, the power is converted from AC to DC and then converted back to AC 230v 50Hz this side of the Channel.

This means we use a lot more nuclear generated electricity then people think, it's just that we import it from the French.

A country that produces electricity may well not consume it all, thanks to electrical grids that pass borders.

I'll have to look at the consumption figures. For most nations they are nearly the same. Good point about us using all that French nuclear power.. I'm a big fan of nuclear power and hoping we go through with the plans for new nuclear plants in Britain.

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Air conditioning uses lots of electricity. Central heating uses lots of gas. What was your point again?

Lets look at natural gas consumption in billion cubic feet.

UK 1980: 1,702

1990: 2,059

2000: 3,373

2008: 3,388

Per capita 2008: 55,540 cubic feet.

Spain 1980: 56

1990: 192

2000: 588

2008: 1,348

Per capita 2008: 29,304 cubic feet.

Looks like the Spanish are using the natural gas to generate electricity. But then Britain has been phasing out coal plants and replacing them with natural gas.

Edited by aa3

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Btw I'm getting my numbers from the EIA the US Energy Information Association. Its amazing how many numbers they have. For people who can lost in statistics and comparing them its a goldmine. Yes I'd rather spend hours looking through charts of electrical production growth in different nations than watch football or survivor.

Ok I can't help but share this comparison.. look at the incredible growth of electric consumption in South Korea versus the UK.

UK 1980: 264.918

1990: 298.307

2000: 352.390

2008: 362.903

Per capita: 5,934.

South Korea 1980: 34.472

1990: 98.124

2000: 248.632

2008: 415.939

Per capita: 8,521.

Granted South Korea was probably the most successful industrializing nation during the period. The UK comes off looking a lot better compared to the Eastern Bloc nations during the period. Its more a testament to the development of South Korea.

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Just proves what a miracle economy we have here with the City which adds so much to GDP with hardly any energy input at all.

Good point. Electrical machinery does work effort, prodigious amounts of it. And with strong companies that work effort can be sold around the world. The same as work effort from a person.

It should be noted the divergence in French and UK fortunes since 1980. The French continuing industry, the UK moving more to finance. As many issues as our industrial companies had in 1980, I do not know that they were worse than French industrial companies.

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Btw I'm getting my numbers from the EIA the US Energy Information Association. Its amazing how many numbers they have. For people who can lost in statistics and comparing them its a goldmine. Yes I'd rather spend hours looking through charts of electrical production growth in different nations than watch football or survivor.

Ok I can't help but share this comparison.. look at the incredible growth of electric consumption in South Korea versus the UK.

UK 1980: 264.918

1990: 298.307

2000: 352.390

2008: 362.903

Per capita: 5,934.

South Korea 1980: 34.472

1990: 98.124

2000: 248.632

2008: 415.939

Per capita: 8,521.

Granted South Korea was probably the most successful industrializing nation during the period. The UK comes off looking a lot better compared to the Eastern Bloc nations during the period. Its more a testament to the development of South Korea.

may I also add that in South Korea you can easily get 100 Mb internet whereas, here in the UK average speed is 2 to 4 Mb (we probably pay a lot here though).

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The Spanish only discovered electricity in 1980.

Or more likely they only discovered air con in 1980.

Take a look at any 70s or 80s Spanish block and you will find that 90% of them have a retro fitted aircon unit on the outside. They look a bloody eyesore.

tim

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Guest sillybear2

France doesn't really have a natural gas network (or reserves) so they use electrical power for heating and cooking, so their consumption is unrelated to industrial uses.

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aa3. I'm almost getting nostalgic for your print more money posts after reading this. ‘think you need to get out a bit more...

Thing is ... I am kinda proud that we have people like aa3 in Britain. :)

They are like a defense against the dark arts of obfuscated economic narratives, the Gandalfs lighting the way through the wicked propaganda in the Halls of Moria: their staffs, a stream of economic statistics and their wills strengthened into steel by the power of geekdom.

It is people like aa3 and his electricity statistics that will be the faint chinks baubles of light in this global dark night of collapse: their call -- "this way sanity lies!" as they direct the way through gloomy, demonic tombs of terror and mayhem.

Edited in light of Saberu's very valid point. :rolleyes:

Edited by dissident junk

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It is people like aa3 and his electricity statistics that will be the faint chinks of light in this global dark night of collapse: their call -- "this way sanity lies!" as they direct the way through gloomy, demonic tombs of terror and mayhem.

That's racist! Mods permaban :ph34r:

Though I do agree aa3 needs to get out more, there should be a "going out" fund for people like him, funded from everyones STR stash..annual 0.1% contribution.

Nice stats anyway, I was especially intrigued by South Korea, near chinky land.

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Btw I'm getting my numbers from the EIA the US Energy Information Association. Its amazing how many numbers they have. For people who can lost in statistics and comparing them its a goldmine. Yes I'd rather spend hours looking through charts of electrical production growth in different nations than watch football or survivor.

Ok I can't help but share this comparison.. look at the incredible growth of electric consumption in South Korea versus the UK.

UK 1980: 264.918

1990: 298.307

2000: 352.390

2008: 362.903

Per capita: 5,934.

South Korea 1980: 34.472

1990: 98.124

2000: 248.632

2008: 415.939

Per capita: 8,521.

Granted South Korea was probably the most successful industrializing nation during the period. The UK comes off looking a lot better compared to the Eastern Bloc nations during the period. Its more a testament to the development of South Korea.

in the 1980's my wife who is Korean had to wash outside in the morning and use public baths to have a shower/bath, even in winter when it got down to -20. Also their house had no indoor toilet and was heated by lighting a fire underneath it ( the house was sort of raised up so the hot air could pass underneath) , today the land it was on in Seoul is worth several million dollars.

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