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Guest Noodle

Is It Time To Move On

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Guest Noodle

. . . The Severn Barrage?

Always start with Wiki

Now then. We have two major problems both looming and current (excuse the pun) in Blighty.

1. Unemployment and loss of skills.

2. Energy.

Is it time we seriously consider building the Severn Barrage? Blighty's answer the Chinas Three Gorges Dam.

Many thanks to our new poster Sand Grain (and welcome) for reminding me about this in another thread.

Let's begin with some visuals . . .

05%20Severn%20Estuary%20schemesMAIN.jpg

severn2_1247396c.jpg

severn_barrage_325.jpg

hydr_photo_15.jpg

barrage2_web.jpg

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Guest Noodle

My God, man, think of all the wading birds! Let's just build hundreds of nuclear power stations. That's much more environmentally friendly.

I'll have Bill Oddie hiding in a south american favela.

Seems the big issue is mud, lutoclines, the fine sediment circulating in the estuary.

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Guest Noodle

not sure about the windmills on top - but yes

Wind turbines are ideal, also a road connecting Cardiff with the M5, J21. Or a choo-choo train?

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Lots of us don't have teh skillz. And there's loads of costly-to-run construction plant involved in a mega-project like that.

Couldn't we see if us Brits are actually capable of organising a piss-up in a brewery first. Start with so-simple-a-monkey-could-do-it stuff

Let's requisition a bunch of land and set people to building low-energy "passive" houses for rent, on grown-up multi-year leases if required.

Most still-functioning cities in Britain seem to have convenient dead zones of empty land surrounding them for some reason. It's not as though it's being rationally utilised for market gardening or aquaculture or anything.

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Guest Noodle

Lots of us don't have teh skillz. And there's loads of costly-to-run construction plant involved in a mega-project like that.

Couldn't we see if us Brits are actually capable of organising a piss-up in a brewery first. Start with so-simple-a-monkey-could-do-it stuff

Let's requisition a bunch of land and set people to building low-energy "passive" houses for rent, on grown-up multi-year leases if required.

Most still-functioning cities in Britain seem to have convenient dead zones of empty land surrounding them for some reason. It's not as though it's being rationally utilised for market gardening or aquaculture or anything.

My old crew at Edmund Nuttall would piss this. Brits are very capable of doing this as long as you just get all the bullshitters and obstructionistas out the way and let them get on with it.

Let's build it! :):D

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Yep - just build the flucker. Tides are 100% reliable, unlike wind and solar.

Birds often move on to find new pastures, in my experience, if you get what I mean?

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Guest Noodle

Yep - just build the flucker. Tides are 100% reliable, unlike wind and solar.

Birds often move on to find new pastures, in my experience, if you get what I mean?

Oh I do dear, I do.

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Guest Noodle

Cost estimate by Halcrow was £23Bn in 2008.

Severn barrage cost hits £23bn

But according the the Telegraph it's way too much.

Severn barrage cost 'cannot be justified'

How much are the bankers getting paid in bonuses . . . even this year?

Severn barrage faces economic rather than environmental hurdles

In fact, let's build this one, let's build some more in Wales and Scotland too.

This thing about build cost and comparing it to current electricity prices is short sighted at best. It's easy to imagine energy costs tripling within say 20 years. Do they still moan about the cost of the Hoover Dam today?

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1. Unemployment and loss of skills.

Loss of what skills? If there really were a skills shortage then you'd have rampant wage inflation in that job. What skills are we short of?

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Guest Noodle

Loss of what skills? If there really were a skills shortage then you'd have rampant wage inflation in that job. What skills are we short of?

The longer the likes of engineers and skilled labour go unemployed the more they lose their acquired skills and motivation. Without projects the next generation don't get any real training (please don't tell me University teaches you that much) and thus more skilled people are lost for the future.

I can't find the link now, but it was mentioned I think in the Telegraph a while back that the UK had lost it's ability to build new nuclear power stations as the skills had been lost. Dunno how much weight this carries but if you aren't doing much you aren't learning much.

I used to run big projects (not Barrage big, but £XXXm). People got the chance to learn and train on those projects, to take to the next project.

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The longer the likes of engineers and skilled labour go unemployed the more they lose their acquired skills and motivation. Without projects the next generation don't get any real training (please don't tell me University teaches you that much) and thus more skilled people are lost for the future.

If we really needed these skills then the salaries for them would rise - and they're not. So why would we want a massive communist job creation scheme to prepare people for what exactly? What are we going to with this cadre of engineers when we're finished? Another gigantic government project?

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Guest Noodle

If we really needed these skills then the salaries for them would rise - and they're not. So why would we want a massive communist job creation scheme to prepare people for what exactly? What are we going to with this cadre of engineers when we're finished? Another gigantic government project?

Well I was actually thinking of energy supply in 30 years time, the Hoover Dam being a good case in point.

Most of the senior guys I worked with came off The Dome and The Channel Tunnel jobs. Engineers, directors now.

But don't worry. I'm sure the communist project of bailing out speculators and bankers will keep the lights on for your kids in the future. You know when a society is at risk of collapse when real things are taken for granted.

If your that bothered, ask Bardon if he agrees with me.

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Guest Noodle

Right then. Let's put this in context.

The Treasury spent £117bn of taxpayers' cash bailing out Britain's failing banks - but that figure could rise to £850bn.

It would be wrong to use £15bn of taxpayers' money to build the barrier when as much power could be produced more cheaply from other renewable sources.

Let's say the Barrage comes to £35Bn.

So for 30% of the cost of bailing out Britain's banks (potentially just 4% if the bailout cost comes to £850Bn) . . . we get 5% of current UK electricity demand supplied without any additional fuel input in a world reputedly running out of oil and uranium. Add to this the Hoover dam still works and that was completed in 1936.

We also keep real people employed doing real things which will be of benefit in the future. This keeps the economy turning over at the same time.

Am I missing something?

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Guest Noodle

I know I'm talking to myself here, but here's another excellent example that shows the UK is run and dominated by spoilt children and greedy VI spivs.

Nam Theun 2 Hydroelectric Dam"]Nam Theun 2 Hydroelectric Dam

The Thai's mostly paid for the construction of this hydroelectric project in Laos to export electricity to Thailand. A 1 GW plant it cost $1.3bn.

I can't help but think the UK is shuffling the deck chairs on it's modern day Titanic.

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Cost estimate by Halcrow was £23Bn in 2008.

Severn barrage cost hits £23bn

But according the the Telegraph it's way too much.

Severn barrage cost 'cannot be justified'

How much are the bankers getting paid in bonuses . . . even this year?

Severn barrage faces economic rather than environmental hurdles

In fact, let's build this one, let's build some more in Wales and Scotland too.

This thing about build cost and comparing it to current electricity prices is short sighted at best. It's easy to imagine energy costs tripling within say 20 years. Do they still moan about the cost of the Hoover Dam today?

Awesome sense of perspective from the Telegraph, just out of curiosity how much is it costing them to build a facility for muscular chaps to run around in a circle for a few days in 2012?

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Am I missing something?

We've got less than no money as we spent it all bailing the banks out. Unless some of your engineers can quickly whip up a reliable, low cost time machine so we can not do that how are you going to pay for your job creation scheme? Bond issue? Print 35bn quid? Tax raise? Shut the NHS for the month of August?

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Build it.. Great project and something that will be made in England. 5% electricity is a whole lot of Oil, Gas, Coal, Nuclear waste over the years.

Petition?

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If we really needed these skills then the salaries for them would rise - and they're not.

Agreed -- if we ran efficient and far-sighted markets in this country. Recent events suggest that we don't.

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  • 259 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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