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Climate Unit Funding Put On Hold


Pick It Down

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Well, why did you agree with Mr Sando that it was ignored then?

They ignore the fact it is handled incorrectly in their models.

The models were intended to get a certain answer. What goes into them is irrelevant. They are not truly trying to forecast climate, but instead to keep the grant money flowing and hold on to their waning prestige.

"It's worse than we thought" :lol:

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So because he holds opposing views to you/fluffy666 he's a paedophile? :blink:

I never seriously said he was a paedophile, it's an unrelated piss take relating to the thread about perversion where he posted a picture of a 14 year old girl with the comment "Yummy!". :unsure:

My past experience with Pick It Down indicates that arguing the toss with him about anything is pretty futile; he has cognitive lock of RealistBear proportions.

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This is all so old. I can't believe we're adding more new pages rolling out the old arguments that occupied previous equally dull threads. Is there any chance at all of just resurrecting the old thread so we don't all have to trawl through more pages of rehashed VI arguments, waiting with baited breath for new evidence that won't be posted?

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Guest Ian Chesterton

Carbon Dioxide makes up 0.03%

If you're implying that makes it a minor component, try adding that amount of cyanide to your body and see what that 0.03% can do.

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Corrected.

She was 15 when you posted the picture and she was 14 in the picture you posted of her. :unsure:

Go for your life, I'm not making any moral judgements but I personally grew out of finding girls that young looking attractive when I was in my teens; of course you could well be a adolescent yourself which would explain a lot :P

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I never seriously said he was a paedophile, it's an unrelated piss take relating to the thread about perversion where he posted a picture of a 14 year old girl with the comment "Yummy!". :unsure:

Yeah, she wasn't even tied-up or wearing any latex.

(TBH - I did think it definitely fell into the severe wrongness category)

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I think they have just worked out that they do not need to spend a lot of money on lies anymore, that they just should just stick with the tried and tested method of enforcing taxes with threats. Why sugar coat it? I don't for a minute think that anyone in the unit gave a toss about the planet.

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Carbon Dioxide makes up 0.03% of the atmosphere. Water vapour is the worst green house gas, I say we ban that first. The computer models used to develop the man made global warming theory didn't use water vapour in their climate models. What a joke! Its tobacco science of the First order! Enjoy your grants jokers!

Water vapor is the most powerful greenhouse gas

"Water vapour is the most important greenhouse gas. If you get a fall evening and the sky is clear, heat will escape, the temperature will drop. If there's cloud cover, the heat is trapped by water vapour and the temperature stays warm. If you go to In Salah in southern Algeria, they recorded at noon 52°C. By midnight, it's -3.6°C. It's caused because there is very little water vapour in the atmosphere and is a demonstration of water vapour as the most important greenhouse gas

What have facts got to do with anything?

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Oh, apparently monks didn't grow mediterranean grapes in northern England, they where on the pay of mobil to lie in their records.

Wrong, it must have been BP. as Mobil could not have existed due to America not haveing been discovered and as we all know BP are the devil incarnate at the moment.

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Carbon Dioxide makes up 0.03% of the atmosphere. Water vapour is the worst green house gas, I say we ban that first. The computer models used to develop the man made global warming theory didn't use water vapour in their climate models. What a joke! Its tobacco science of the First order! Enjoy your grants jokers!

Water vapor is the most powerful greenhouse gas

"Water vapour is the most important greenhouse gas. If you get a fall evening and the sky is clear, heat will escape, the temperature will drop. If there's cloud cover, the heat is trapped by water vapour and the temperature stays warm. If you go to In Salah in southern Algeria, they recorded at noon 52°C. By midnight, it's -3.6°C. It's caused because there is very little water vapour in the atmosphere and is a demonstration of water vapour as the most important greenhouse gas

They prefer to ignore waper vapour as it's too complicated for them.

Water vapour is the most dominant greenhouse gas. The greenhouse effect or radiative flux for water is around 75 W/m2 while carbon dioxide contributes 32 W/m2 (Kiehl 1997). These proportions are confirmed by measurements of infrared radiation returning to the Earth's surface (Evans 2006). Water vapour is also the dominant positive feedback in our climate system and a major reason why temperature is so sensitive to changes in CO2.

Unlike external forcings such as CO2 which can be added to the atmosphere, the level of water vapour in the atmosphere is a function of temperature. Water vapour is brought into the atmosphere via evaporation - the rate depends on the temperature of the ocean and air, being governed by the Clausius-Clapeyron relation. If extra water is added to the atmosphere, it condenses and falls as rain or snow within a week or two. Similarly, if somehow moisture was sucked out of the atmosphere, evaporation would restore water vapour levels to 'normal levels' in short time.

Water Vapour as a positive feedback

As water vapour is directly related to temperature, it's also a positive feedback - in fact, the largest positive feedback in the climate system (Soden 2005). As temperature rises, evaporation increases and more water vapour accumulates in the atmosphere. As a greenhouse gas, the water absorbs more heat, further warming the air and causing more evaporation. When CO2 is added to the atmosphere, as a greenhouse gas it has a warming effect. This causes more water to evaporate and warm the air to a higher, stabilized level. So the warming from CO2 has an amplified effect.

How much does water vapour amplify CO2 warming? Without any feedbacks, a doubling of CO2 would warm the globe around 1°C. Taken on its own, water vapour feedback roughly doubles the amount of CO2 warming. When other feedbacks are included (eg - loss of albedo due to melting ice), the total warming from a doubling of CO2 is around 3°C (Held 2000).

Empirical observations of water vapour feedback and climate sensitivity

The amplifying effect of water vapor has been observed in the global cooling after the eruption of Mount Pinatubo (Soden 2001). The cooling led to atmospheric drying which amplified the temperature drop. A climate sensitivity of around 3°C is also confirmed by numerous empirical studies examining how climate has responded to various forcings in the past (Knutti & Hegerl 2008).

Satellites have observed an increase in atmospheric water vapour by about 0.41 kg/m² per decade since 1988. A detection and attribution study, otherwise known as "fingerprinting", was employed to identify the cause of the rising water vapour levels (Santer 2007). Fingerprinting involves rigorous statistical tests of the different possible explanations for a change in some property of the climate system. Results from 22 different climate models (virtually all of the world's major climate models) were pooled and found the recent increase in moisture content over the bulk of the world's oceans is not due to solar forcing or gradual recovery from the 1991 eruption of Mount Pinatubo. The primary driver of 'atmospheric moistening' was found to be the increase in CO2 caused by the burning of fossil fuels.

Theory, observations and climate models all show the increase in water vapor is around 6 to 7.5% per degree Celsius warming of the lower atmosphere. The observed changes in temperature, moisture, and atmospheric circulation fit together in an internally and physically consistent way. When skeptics cite water vapour as the most dominant greenhouse gas, they are actually invoking the positive feedback that makes our climate so sensitive to CO2 as well as another line of evidence for anthropogenic global warming.

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