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AteMoose

Londonderry

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http://www.bbc.co.uk...ireland-1065185

I wouldn't think londonderry was an ideal role model as a cultured city, for all other uk citys to look upto, or am I missing the point somewhere? Liverpool wasnt a great choice in 2008 as a temporary home for culture. But derry as the Capital of culture?

Edited by AteMoose

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This is normalisation cash - the dissident republicans are gaining support there and have now got quite a foothold. And the city has one of the worst unemployment rates in Ireland. Very poor. This is a way of getting much needed cash there and undermining paramilitary activity. The last few days has seen major riots and gun attacks there (not that you'll have seen much about that on the news). All p art of the peace strategy. Interesting to see McGuinness supporting the bid, seeing that the title is UK city of culture.

I know the place quite well and it's more divided than ever along political lines. West bank - overwhelmingly Republican - a very major base for the IRA during the troubles, where they had very strong community support - East Bank - mainly loyalist.

Edited by gruffydd

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http://www.bbc.co.uk...ireland-1065185

I wouldn't think londonderry was an ideal role model as a cultured city, for all other uk citys to look upto, or am I missing the point somewhere?  Liverpool wasnt a great choice in 2008 as a temporary home for culture.  But derry as the Capital of culture?

These things are always simply tools in urban regeneration ... the whole point is to challenge the status quo and give locals something to strive for and hopefully leave some legacy behind when the circus moves on.

Places like Oxford, Bath, York - long-established cultural centres outside London - don't really need this sort of intervention.

So yes I think you did miss the point. Though I should ask - have you been to Derry lately? It's chokka with musicians, potters, painters, threatre groups. It's far from the place more people remember off the telly from the 1970s.

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These things are always simply tools in urban regeneration ... the whole point is to challenge the status quo and give locals something to strive for and hopefully leave some legacy behind when the circus moves on.

Places like Oxford, Bath, York - long-established cultural centres outside London - don't really need this sort of intervention.

So yes I think you did miss the point. Though I should ask - have you been to Derry lately? It's chokka with musicians, potters, painters, threatre groups. It's far from the place more people remember off the telly from the 1970s.

No i've never been, closest I have got was north wales. I've been watching the new over the past couple of days though : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10627838

I understand, i'm being vacuous. If you want to make somewhere more cultural thats great do it, but making somewhere that isnt culture a cultural capital is daft. You should make somewhere that is already a cultural a cultural capital BUT dont invest there, invest in the place that isnt the cultural capital. Ie york is the capital of culture, but all funds from capital of culture from it go to derry which is the cultural improvement zone? Or just change 'capital of culture', to cultural improvement scheme... If you were trying to sell a product you would get done up under the trading descriptions act. Derry ISNT a capital of culture, it is a city that needs culturally improving! To make matters worse everyone in the UK knows if your city is made capital of culture it means it needs HUGE improvements, and it becomes a bigger joke, dont dress it up say it like it is...

By making derry the capital of culture, your going to get Japanese tourists turning up wondering why the uk is so crap, it makes the rest of the country look even worse to people who come here. Your better off showing off about the good places, and being honest about the places that need improving.

Edited by AteMoose

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"Rioting in the Bogside on Monday night and Tuesday morning was among "the worst in a decade", police have said.

A masked gunman fired shots at police in Londonderry shortly after 0100 BST on Tuesday.

Petrol bombs were thrown at a police patrol car which was on fire when a gunman appeared and fired five shots at the vehicle from a handgun"

To be honest, the pottery, theatre and music stuff was always a part of the government's normalisation/PR strategy - the city centres were defended by rings of steel and then money was injected so visitors could come in and see how things were normalising. When the bombing threat faded, that strategy was continued - if your city centre looks OK, people will be tempted to invest, holiday, etc., in the area.

Thing about stroke city is all you have to do is walk a few hundred yards and you'll see the reality - a very poor and deprived city with major employment and housing problems, and dissident paramilitaries exercising increasing levels of control, and receiving increasing support from the young and jobless. That's the reality. Don't let any goverment 'cultural city' PR inform you differently. Unfortunately there are loads of useful idiots who swallow that stuff hook line and sinker!

I really do fear for the future of the place.

Edited by gruffydd

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Rioting in the Bogside on Monday night and Tuesday morning was among "the worst in a decade", police have said.

A masked gunman fired shots at police in Londonderry shortly after 0100 BST on Tuesday.

Petrol bombs were thrown at a police patrol car which was on fire when a gunman appeared and fired five shots at the vehicle from a handgun

This kind of throwback is unfortunate and yes, the city is still segregated. That's why community-building exercises like this are important. The reasons for the recent riots are complicated and as ever the rioters are rather dumb pawns furthering someone else's more sinister agenda. Personally I would love to see the Ulster marching season as become a shared cultural celebration, but unfortunately the hate and triumphalism with which marches are often conducted mean this is a long way off - it's not a lot different to the Klu Klux Klan electing to (and being allowed to) march round black neighbourhoods reminding blacks of their underclass status and reminding them to stay in their place. (I speak as a Scot who witnessed similar growing up in the Glasgow area and it can be sickening).

But most of the time there are no riots (these days they are pretty rare) ... the old city has a wonderful charm about it and, as I said, a thriving arts scene. Surely it's right to encourage this over the old culture of bigotry, hate and reaction.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk...ireland-1065185

I wouldn't think londonderry was an ideal role model as a cultured city, for all other uk citys to look upto, or am I missing the point somewhere?  Liverpool wasnt a great choice in 2008 as a temporary home for culture.  But derry as the Capital of culture?

As someone from Derry i can tell you its a great city with plenty of history in arts and culture.

Tell me, have you ever been to Derry?

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This is normalisation cash - the dissident republicans are gaining support there and have now got quite a foothold. And the city has one of the worst unemployment rates in Ireland. Very poor. This is a way of getting much needed cash there and undermining paramilitary activity. The last few days has seen major riots and gun attacks there (not that you'll have seen much about that on the news). All p art of the peace strategy. Interesting to see McGuinness supporting the bid, seeing that the title is UK city of culture.

I know the place quite well and it's more divided than ever along political lines. West bank - overwhelmingly Republican - a very major base for the IRA during the troubles, where they had very strong community support - East Bank - mainly loyalist.

Gainign support in Derry? Nowe thats funny! I doubt these clowns have even 0.5% of the populations support!

And you say one of the worst unemployment rates in Ireland? Why is this. Go do some reading on the subject for Gods sake! Everyone in NI knows the economic imbalance in NI. The east gets all the investment. Tyhe west gets virtually zero. And why is is? Wouldn't be that the majority of catholiocs/nationlists live in the west would it? Its been this way for years

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Been there once for a weekend. Its full of skanks and scummers.

I didnt like what I seen of it and to get this cultural vote, well thats a joke.

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By making derry the capital of culture, your going to get Japanese tourists turning up wondering why the uk is so crap, it makes the rest of the country look even worse to people who come here. Your better off showing off about the good places, and being honest about the places that need improving.

I sympathise with this point, but York, and Edinburgh, and Bath, and Bristol are doing just fine. My sense is that these things are mainly for locals anyway - community building exercises - rather than for tourists. Most visitors to this country never get further than the main bus trip routes out of London: Cotswolds & Bath; York & Hovis country, Edinburgh & the Highlands for the more adventurous. (EDIT: Forgot the 'other' bus trip, Stratford on Avon).

Edited by montesquieu

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As someone from Derry i can tell you its a great city with plenty of history in arts and culture.

Tell me, have you ever been to Derry?

Have to agree. Derry has a great atmosphere. Its a city Im really starting to appreciate as a cultural hotspot. There will always be issues relating to antisocial behaviour especially in the West with its higher levels of social deprivation.

Well done Derry. Itll be good to see some investment directed towards the West.

Edited by 2buyornot2buy

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Been there once for a weekend. Its full of skanks and scummers.

I didnt like what I seen of it and to get this cultural vote, well thats a joke.

Poor fella is hurting. Did you cop off that weekend, get back to the hotel and realise it was a man?

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Gainign support in Derry? Nowe thats funny! I doubt these clowns have even 0.5% of the populations support!

And you say one of the worst unemployment rates in Ireland? Why is this. Go do some reading on the subject for Gods sake! Everyone in NI knows the economic imbalance in NI. The east gets all the investment. Tyhe west gets virtually zero. And why is is? Wouldn't be that the majority of catholiocs/nationlists live in the west would it? Its been this way for years

I hope that's the case. All I know is what I have seen and heard with my own eyes.

RE: unemployment - the West of the Bann issue is barely mentioned by politicians these days - when I was a nipper it was a big talking point. Why is that?

Edited by gruffydd

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Been there once for a weekend. Its full of skanks and scummers.

I didnt like what I seen of it and to get this cultural vote, well thats a joke.

I live in NI and tbh i dont know Derry very well.It is true that there is a small but hardline element of dissidents operating in that area and no doubt some of the recent rioting was orchestrated/encouraged by them.I believe that Derry has well above the regional average figures for unemployment,single mums etc but surely to goodness

this award which many there worked hard for can only bring some good?

Good luck to them i say.

The other poster who was moaning about the Nationalist parts of NI not getting regional assistance is sadly imho typical of "Derry syndrome" ie handout for a handout and "what are you going to do for me" attitude.Stop moaning and ask yourself what are you goinfg to do to make things better.

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RE: unemployment - the West of the Bann issue is barely mentioned by politicians these days - when I was a nipper it was a big talking point. Why is that?

No idea. Maybe after 50 years people are fed up raising the issue as it falls on deaf ears?

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The other poster who was moaning about the Nationalist parts of NI not getting regional assistance is sadly imho typical of "Derry syndrome" ie handout for a handout and "what are you going to do for me" attitude.Stop moaning and ask yourself what are you goinfg to do to make things better.

I’m from the East and have to say this statement is absolute crap. Its well know that historically most investment have been directed towards the mainly protestant East. Derry was left completely at the side. It’s only now with IMHO a nationalist voice with majority backing that there is an attempt to readdress the balance.

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The other poster who was moaning about the Nationalist parts of NI not getting regional assistance is sadly imho typical of "Derry syndrome" ie handout for a handout and "what are you going to do for me" attitude.Stop moaning and ask yourself what are you goinfg to do to make things better.

I do something by voting for my MP. John Hume and Mark Durkan have done their best over the years.

Take for exmaple the report of a year or two back by some professor (cant remember his name) He recommended that a large portion civil service jobs be relocated West as a way of addressing the economic imbalance. Whats was Sammy Wilsns response "There is no money to do it" and thats that.

The Kelvin project...earmarked for Derry then suddenly being relocated to Coleriane. When Derry politicians and businessmen kicked up a stink, The DUP's Arlene Fosters basically told them to stop moaning. Lukily the policiticans and businessmen didnt lay down and the project was built in Derry

Tell me you dont see the massive investment pumped into Belfast year on year while the West gets nothing? Why is that?

Edited by pajd

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I’m from the East and have to say this statement is absolute crap. Its well know that historically most investment have been directed towards the mainly protestant East. Derry was left completely at the side. It’s only now with IMHO a nationalist voice with majority backing that there is an attempt to readdress the balance.

Disagree - i think you are talking the crap here.Seagate,Du Pont,Courtaulds,Hoechst and many more.Sure Derry has had its problems but the treasury has spent fortunes on inward investment there while the rioting continued at any opportunity.Its easier to attract inward investment when there is stability in an area.

Of course if it makes you feel better to think otherwise...

Good luck with the city of culture and i hope it brings more successes your way.

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I’m from the East and have to say this statement is absolute crap. Its well know that historically most investment have been directed towards the mainly protestant East. Derry was left completely at the side. It’s only now with IMHO a nationalist voice with majority backing that there is an attempt to readdress the balance.

Pajd - one way you could get sth done is lobby to get the rail link extended from Derry to Letterkenny (now that the line is scheduled to be upgraded to Derry from Coleraine).Then you would have an amazing link to the West Coast and what a joint tourist coup/attraction that would be-eh?

Seriously - this is the kind of thing that would pay for itself very quickly - 17 miles of track!!!

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