Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Sign in to follow this  
Mega

Vince Invents A New Tax

Recommended Posts

nice, especially as it is doubled edged sword, it should also reduce the number of people who go to uni ;p

Edited by AteMoose

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another rubbish idea from the Cable.

Current system: you only have to repay your loan if your degree actually helps you earn decent money. Industrial sponsors free to sponsor vocational degrees.

Vince's system: All degree-holders get clobbered, whether or not the degree actually enabled to earn a decent salary and whether or not the state actually paid. Tax system gets even more complex.

Vince is going in the wrong direction, the next thing we will have a National University Service free at the point of delivery held up by massive central bureaucracy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great when all these people who enjoyed a free (even paid for) university education start to call students a burden and work out ways to tax them out of going.

Oh and before anyone says "oh it was harder in our day, degrees are worthless now" I got a 2:1 in Economics from a decent uni over a decade ago and I didn't even know what Austrian school and Keynesian economics was until last year!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh and before anyone says "oh it was harder in our day, degrees are worthless now" I got a 2:1 in Economics from a decent uni over a decade ago and I didn't even know what Austrian school and Keynesian economics was until last year!

Yes, but uni's were crap by then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another rubbish idea from the Cable.

Current system: you only have to repay your loan if your degree actually helps you earn decent money. Industrial sponsors free to sponsor vocational degrees.

Vince's system: All degree-holders get clobbered, whether or not the degree actually enabled to earn a decent salary and whether or not the state actually paid. Tax system gets even more complex.

Vince is going in the wrong direction, the next thing we will have a National University Service free at the point of delivery held up by massive central bureaucracy.

£15k is the current threshold for repayment, which isn't exactly a lot of money, IBILT. That kind of wage pays for a meagre existence in the south of England at any rate.

As for vocational degrees, they're often mocked by Oxbridge-type elitists... never mind that in a free market, vocational skills are far, far more important than studying politics at Oxford (which by the way, reduced its grant awards recently).

The degree I study is partially sponsored by business income the university generates by training staff already in employment. The entire structure is designed to accomodate "day-release" style working. Half of the syllabus is traditional CompSci and the other half is basically determined by industry leading technology companies.

There's nothing inherently wrong with more people going to university if the courses are well defined and deliver actual benefit.

Edit: before anyone flames me about not living in the real world, I did for 5 years before going to university (my IT support responsibilities were effectively outsourced to Pakistan)

Edited by HPC001

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be an interesting poll, to ask every student applying to uni this year, why they are going, and why they have chosen whatever course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No Vince. Graduate the income tax, that'll mean that those graduates who earn higher salaries than the rest of the population will pay back in proportion to the benefit of their education. Make sure that only people who can realistically benefit from a degree get to university. No ifs or buts, rich stupid Johnny will just have to find himself a trade, or live off the family income. That's a whole lot of work, as you'll have to revamp the education system from top to bottom, because at the moment we have no idea who's stupid, and who isn't - they all have straight A's. Nothing to stop the rich starting and funding their own universities, but make sure they never have the right to set or moderate degree exams.

While you're at it, reform the whole income tax system. Scrap NI and make it part of income tax. Make it impossible to evade, and simple to administer. Get rid of non-doms allowances - if you work here, you should pay here. The only people who will winge are the rich and their accountants.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

£15k is the current threshold for repayment, which isn't exactly a lot of money, IBILT. That kind of wage pays for a meagre existence in the south of England at any rate.

As for vocational degrees, they're often mocked by Oxbridge-type elitists... never mind that in a free market, vocational skills are far, far more important than studying politics at Oxford (which by the way, reduced its grant awards recently).

The degree I study is partially sponsored by business income the university generates by training staff already in employment. The entire structure is designed to accomodate "day-release" style working. Half of the syllabus is traditional CompSci and the other half is basically determined by industry leading technology companies.

There's nothing inherently wrong with more people going to university if the courses are well defined and deliver actual benefit.

Edit: before anyone flames me about not living in the real world, I did for 5 years before going to university (my IT support responsibilities were effectively outsourced to Pakistan)

+1 good on you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No Vince. Graduate the income tax, that'll mean that those graduates who earn higher salaries than the rest of the population will pay back in proportion to the benefit of their education. Make sure that only people who can realistically benefit from a degree get to university. No ifs or buts, rich stupid Johnny will just have to find himself a trade, or live off the family income. That's a whole lot of work, as you'll have to revamp the education system from top to bottom, because at the moment we have no idea who's stupid, and who isn't - they all have straight A's. Nothing to stop the rich starting and funding their own universities, but make sure they never have the right to set or moderate degree exams.

While you're at it, reform the whole income tax system. Scrap NI and make it part of income tax. Make it impossible to evade, and simple to administer. Get rid of non-doms allowances - if you work here, you should pay here. The only people who will winge are the rich and their accountants.

Most 'rich' people don't earn income that way, they own vast tracts of land and charge rents. You'll just make the average worker much poorer. The logical alternative would be to capture that land rent for legitimate state purposes, such as shared infrastructure (roads, bridges) that everyone benefits from. Particularly as high land values coincide with service provision and population density...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great when all these people who enjoyed a free (even paid for) university education start to call students a burden and work out ways to tax them out of going.

Oh and before anyone says "oh it was harder in our day, degrees are worthless now" I got a 2:1 in Economics from a decent uni over a decade ago and I didn't even know what Austrian school and Keynesian economics was until last year!

ack, you beat me too it.

tax the young!

f'ing disgusting, grasping greedy gits!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is a progressive tax. The better-off pay more.

Which is OK by me, but is it OK by Camoron and the Tories?

Is Vince getting off-message?

Is it Libdem rather than Libcon policy?

Will Vince be banjaxed by the Treasury?

Will the coalition hold?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 good on you

I was hoping you'd have a more substantiative reply, but I guess it's better than being flamed for daring to ask for something back for my prior tax\NI contributions...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be an interesting poll, to ask every student applying to uni this year, why they are going, and why they have chosen whatever course.

Could you have answered that at 18?

I wanted to do Business Studies but no decent university offered the course in the late 1990's so I had to do Economics, which I thought would be similar. After studying utterly pointless things like Econometrics and Laffer Curves for 3 years I was left with a "good" degree but not actually qualified for anything.

Do I regret going? Not in the slightest, I had the time of my life, am still in regular contact with lots of friends and married a girl I met there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could you have answered that at 18?

I wanted to do Business Studies but no decent university offered the course in the late 1990's so I had to do Economics, which I thought would be similar. After studying utterly pointless things like Econometrics and Laffer Curves for 3 years I was left with a "good" degree but not actually qualified for anything.

What about college courses? Was there no relevant HND for example? Applying for work as a trainee\entry level administrator? What about starting your own business (I'm not 100% sure what your aim was)?

Do I regret going? Not in the slightest, I had the time of my life, am still in regular contact with lots of friends and married a girl I met there.

Good stuff, it's no secret that (excepting the biggest geeks) people do expand their social lives in that environment. Admittedly there's a little too much booze and casual sex for my liking, but those are optional - not everyone is like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most 'rich' people don't earn income that way, they own vast tracts of land and charge rents. You'll just make the average worker much poorer. The logical alternative would be to capture that land rent for legitimate state purposes, such as shared infrastructure (roads, bridges) that everyone benefits from. Particularly as high land values coincide with service provision and population density...

If it were up to me, I wouldn't exclude rental from property from taxation - it isn't now. If it forms part of income, tax it. I would make sure that income isn't sheltered by way of a corporate vehicle, saw that trick decades ago, people living in Hampstead mansions paying peppercorn rents on their houses to companies they owned, whilst writing off the cost against the corporation tax.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

nice, especially as it is doubled edged sword, it should also reduce the number of people who go to uni ;p

Wouldn't a lot of them bugger off somewhere else once they'd completed their course? I know I would have done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it were up to me, I wouldn't exclude rental from property from taxation - it isn't now. If it forms part of income, tax it. I would make sure that income isn't sheltered by way of a corporate vehicle, saw that trick decades ago, people living in Hampstead mansions paying peppercorn rents on their houses to companies they owned, whilst writing off the cost against the corporation tax.

I'd support abolishing corporate personhood as well. Individuals should be accountable for their actions. As for LVT, the example of an elderly couple with a house but few cash assets could be dealt with by deferring the tax until death (as a lien on the property), upon which it is deducted from the sale of the estate. Otherwise I suspect the vast majority could afford to pay up since they own almost sod all land anyway.

Given a UK land value of £5 trillion, and downsizing state functions to appropriate levels, it would not take additional taxes to fund.

Edited by HPC001

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well done Vince.

I've been proposing this since I graduated in 1995.

What I say 1% of all income for a further education course.

Plus a further 1% of all income for a higher education course.

You agree to this on the enrolment day so you pay, pass or fail.

Should stop the time wasters.

Spiney.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is a progressive tax. The better-off pay more.

afaics a graduate earnign £x would pay more tax than a non-graduate earning £x+1, this is the opposite of what most people see as "progressive" taxation.

Seems like the perfect recipes to get the most valuable graduates to leave the UK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's nothing inherently wrong with more people going to university if the courses are well defined and deliver actual benefit.

But it may be that universities are the wrong "shape" (traditionally they seek to educate rather than to train) to deliver actual, cost-effective benefit across a broad spectrum of people.

Vocational training is seen as second-class though, despite being fundamental to national prosperity. I guess that's why the polys were rebranded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about EU citizens that come to the UK to study in British universities? How does Vince propose to tax them once they return to their home country? Apparently this is already a big problem with non-repayment of student loans.

What about people who emigrate? Young, (supposedly) highly-educated graduates can either pay inflated income taxes in the UK or they can go to any number of countries only too eager to reap the benefits of the British taxpayer's investment. Hardly a smart move by the British government in an increasingly globalised world.

..... and what about Scotland? I assume an English university graduate pays higher income tax that their Scottish counterpart for doing the same job. That's going to go down well isn't it?

Edited by Orsino

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 261 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.