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efdemin

Toyota Cars Not Actually Defective After All

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Some early results of the investigations into the Toyota crashes in USA has been published: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703834604575364871534435744.html?mod=WSJ_auto_IndustryCollection

The early results suggest that some drivers who said their Toyotas and Lexuses surged out of control were mistakenly flooring the accelerator when they intended to jam on the brakes.

:rolleyes:

Still, at least GM and Ford were there to pick up the sales lost by Toyota, eh?

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Some early results of the investigations into the Toyota crashes in USA has been published: http://online.wsj.co...ustryCollection

:rolleyes:

Still, at least GM and Ford were there to pick up the sales lost by Toyota, eh?

Flooring accelerator instead of braking - bl00dy yanks - just goes to prove how thick some of them can be, and explains the dearth of similar complaints from Brits.<_<

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I could never understand why the feck they didn't just put the car into neutral and/or turn the ignition off anyway. I've had throttle cables stick on one or two old heaps over the years and I just reached down and pulled the pedal back up.

Got to be a better plan than phoning a local TV station on your mobile, as I understand one woman did in this situation, then ploughing into a metal barrier and killing yourself and family.

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Got to be a better plan than phoning a local TV station on your mobile, as I understand one woman did in this situation, then ploughing into a metal barrier and killing yourself and family.

For real? :blink:

That's dedication to Buy American.

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Flooring accelerator instead of braking - bl00dy yanks - just goes to prove how thick some of them can be, and explains the dearth of similar complaints from Brits.dry.gif

Thank Christ the yanks don't have to worry about a clutch pedal too. Just imagine the carnage! laugh.gif

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I could never understand why the feck they didn't just put the car into neutral and/or turn the ignition off anyway. I've had throttle cables stick on one or two old heaps over the years and I just reached down and pulled the pedal back up.

Think it's a "drive-by-wire" throttle on the new Prius, so no amount of pedal lifting will help. Why they don't off the ignition is a big mystery...

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Think it's a "drive-by-wire" throttle on the new Prius, so no amount of pedal lifting will help. Why they don't off the ignition is a big mystery...

They probably get a BSOD equivalent and won't respond to any input action. Fancy having to jerk the cables off the battery pack at full speed?

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Think it's a "drive-by-wire" throttle on the new Prius, so no amount of pedal lifting will help. Why they don't off the ignition is a big mystery...

It is drive by wire on all the cars affected, but the problem wasn't thought to be electrical. Rather it was a case of the pedal mechanism itself breaking up internally becoming gradually stiffer to operate over time and eventually sticking down. Physically getting hold of the pedal and lifting it would have freed it off in that case, despite the absence of a mechanical cable.

My point though was that a sticking accelerator pedal is not the huge problem it was being made out to be, and wasn't even particularly unusual in the days of cable operated throttles.

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Now we can stop wondering why-oh-why our routers / toasters / hoovers etc come with instructions CAUTION!ing us against immersing them in water. Yep, they were printed in the good 'ol U-S-of-A.

It's not that American's are so much more stupid than, say, Brits. It's just that there is a small probability of this type of stupidity cropping up in any population, and America is a BIG county.

Just wait 'till the Chinese get hold of all these things!

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It is drive by wire on all the cars affected, but the problem wasn't thought to be electrical. Rather it was a case of the pedal mechanism itself breaking up internally becoming gradually stiffer to operate over time and eventually sticking down. Physically getting hold of the pedal and lifting it would have freed it off in that case, despite the absence of a mechanical cable.

My point though was that a sticking accelerator pedal is not the huge problem it was being made out to be, and wasn't even particularly unusual in the days of cable operated throttles.

For a thinnish person this is no problem, but when your average american weighs 400lbs then it becomes a serious problem to reach down.

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I hadn't been driving for long at all when this story first hit and my first thought was why did they not just stick it in neutral or turn the engine off, if they had a manual there's the third option of slamming down on the clutch and the breaks.

I think the problem was two-fold. These were very modern cars with a push-button start and no ignigion key to turn off. I have to admit that I've never driven anything like that so I don't quite know how you turn them off but I've read that there is a forced turn off by holding the starter button in for 5 seconds or something.

The problem with putting it into neutral was, I think, they they are a push-button select and it won't let you put it into neutral while it's moving - or something similar.

The third option is clearly the best but many yanks are a bit to dim to think about gears and a clutch, apparently.

Personally, I think the problems with drive-by-wire cars must have pretty self evident at the design stage. Computers sometimes do stupid things that no one ever accounted for and not having a big switch labelled "OFF" is an inherent design fault, in my opinion. The problem was known about in fly-by-wire aircraft years ago when Airbus planes crashed because the computers decided that they were going to do something of their own accord, regardless of what the flight crew wanted.

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Think it's a "drive-by-wire" throttle on the new Prius, so no amount of pedal lifting will help. Why they don't off the ignition is a big mystery...

Not being confident you'll still be able to steer, maybe. I have no idea how heavy my steering would be at speed (I know it's *bloody* heavy when just rolling a few feet in front of the house).

Clutch in, brake on, unloaded engine revving at a panic-inducing level, driver freaks out and lets go again. I reckon that might be the sequence.

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On my car I think all this fly-by-wire stuff has serious safety implications - just because the auto-gearbox has a big lever that looks like it's connected to the gearbox it may just be connected to tiny electrical switches.

What worries me with mine is if you go, say into a shop, and lock someone inside. Not only will the motion sensor set the alarm off but the person will be unable to get out because the interior door lock switches are just electrical switches and pulling/pushing at them does nothing. Given the windows are electric as well it would be all but impossible to get out.

I also don't like that as soon as the car goes over about 5mph the doors all automatically lock so you can't get carjacked etc. When you stop they just unlock (electrically) when you pull a door release handle. The worry with this is if you crashed into a river and the battery wasn't functioning I don't think there's any way you'd be able to easily open the doors.

I'm pretty sure on autos I've driven you can just click them into neutral but I wouldn't be surprised if some required brake pedal depression simultaneously.

There's been similar things with cruise-controls on vehicles going haywire and people being unable to shut off anything - Ford Explorer - I think.

Edit to add: Here it is, interesting quote :lol:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/ford-explorer-cruise-control-malfunction-a-known-problem/story-e6frg6nf-1225811468014

Having avoided a major accident at the end of his 30-minute ordeal along Melbourne's Eastern and Eastlink freeways, Mr Weir might have expected his driving feats to be publicly acclaimed.

Instead, the overwhelming response has ranged from sceptical to savage, with backseat drivers across the nation offering their "what I would have done'' accounts on newspaper websites and talkback radio.

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Not being confident you'll still be able to steer, maybe. I have no idea how heavy my steering would be at speed (I know it's *bloody* heavy when just rolling a few feet in front of the house).

Clutch in, brake on, unloaded engine revving at a panic-inducing level, driver freaks out and lets go again. I reckon that might be the sequence.

Pretty sure the steering would still be pretty bl00dy heavy even at higher speeds in a larger car with power steering.

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I'm definitely never driving an auto now, they always seemed like a cheaty way of driving but now I also see that not having a clutch can be a safety issue too.

They aren't a safety issue in most cars because the linkage is mechanical so you can just knock it out of gear. If you have an auto box which is electronically selectable then I can see that as being a problem - as it turns out to be in these Toyota's. However, I think that that is only a problem if you don't have a key with which to turn the ignition off with.

Auto's do have their place. Big cars with big engines are often better suited to an auto box. An S class merc really dosn't have a manual box.

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On my car I think all this fly-by-wire stuff has serious safety implications - just because the auto-gearbox has a big lever that looks like it's connected to the gearbox it may just be connected to tiny electrical switches.

What worries me with mine is if you go, say into a shop, and lock someone inside. Not only will the motion sensor set the alarm off but the person will be unable to get out because the interior door lock switches are just electrical switches and pulling/pushing at them does nothing. Given the windows are electric as well it would be all but impossible to get out.

I also don't like that as soon as the car goes over about 5mph the doors all automatically lock so you can't get carjacked etc. When you stop they just unlock (electrically) when you pull a door release handle. The worry with this is if you crashed into a river and the battery wasn't functioning I don't think there's any way you'd be able to easily open the doors.

I'm pretty sure on autos I've driven you can just click them into neutral but I wouldn't be surprised if some required brake pedal depression simultaneously.

There's been similar things with cruise-controls on vehicles going haywire and people being unable to shut off anything - Ford Explorer - I think.

Edit to add: Here it is, interesting quote :lol:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/ford-explorer-cruise-control-malfunction-a-known-problem/story-e6frg6nf-1225811468014

I am a luddite. I'm even of two minds over electric windows, let alone keyless ignition etc. etc..

Why does anyone need all of this expensive to repair, flakey technology in a car?

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The worry with this is if you crashed into a river and the battery wasn't functioning I don't think there's any way you'd be able to easily open the doors.

Apparently someone drowned here a few years back when one of the main roads flooded due to heavy rain and they couldn't get out of their car because the electric locks and windows wouldn't work.

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I'm definitely never driving an auto now, they always seemed like a cheaty way of driving but now I also see that not having a clutch can be a safety issue too.

Autos are for the weak.

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I am a luddite. I'm even of two minds over electric windows, let alone keyless ignition etc. etc..

Why does anyone need all of this expensive to repair, flakey technology in a car?

These are actually good comments. Modern cars have the reputation of being easy to fix because everything is modular (and usually electronic) so you just plug in a diagnostic computer which tells you the faulty part and you change it. This often dosn't work though as if one part if faulty it often causes faults - or phantom faults - in other parts so you can end up changing loads of parts because you get the right one. Also, modern electronics can be fearsomely expensive and they usually aren't things you can just repair, you have to replace them. Electronic engine managemant units can costs thousands to replace and are usually sealed so you can't get into them to change a damaged component. It was much simpler in the days of carbs and distributers where if you have, say, burned out points it's easy to find and costs nowt to fix.

We're currently going through this crap with other half's car. We've changed, plugs, coil packs, ignition leads, air mass meter, cam position sensor and it's still not right. Was on a diagnostic machine that had loads of these faults but they are clearly being caused by something else. We think it's pointing towards the air-mass meter (last one we put in was a cheap one which seemed to solve the problem but only for a few days). Question is, do we spend £160 on a branded one and take the risk that the other one was just poorly produced crap or is it something else that's ruining the sensor?

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We're currently going through this crap with other half's car. We've changed, plugs, coil packs, ignition leads, air mass meter, cam position sensor and it's still not right. Was on a diagnostic machine that had loads of these faults but they are clearly being caused by something else. We think it's pointing towards the air-mass meter (last one we put in was a cheap one which seemed to solve the problem but only for a few days). Question is, do we spend £160 on a branded one and take the risk that the other one was just poorly produced crap or is it something else that's ruining the sensor?

The scenario you describe there is very, very common with today's cars. We get it all the time with fleet cars and vans, particularly common rail diesel, when they get up to the fat part of 100k.

All cheap mass air flow meters are pretty sh1te and give poor performance compared to OEM parts.

First, I'd try just disconnecting the airflow meter altogether and seeing how it performs.

What are the symptoms, difficult starting, cutting out when pulling up?

Throttle position sensor, crankshaft sensor, injectors the list goes on and on. Unless you've got a real specialist in the vehicle main dealers will just keep throwing parts at it until it stops at the customer's expense.

Have you had any work done on it recently like new clutch etc. Often poor reassembly can leave dirt or grease interfering with a sensor?

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Autos are for the weak.

Handy for those with fewer legs,eh? :blink:

Most larger cars aren't offered with a stick option any more! :huh:

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  • 145 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • up 5%



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