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eric pebble

Scotsman: Picking Up The Pieces Of The Boom In Liar's Loans

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Scotsman: Picking up the pieces of the boom in Liar's Loans.

OF THE many causes of our current misfortunes, the sub-prime mortgage bubble and the rise of "Liar's Loans" - officially called "self-certification mortgages" - featured prominently.

These were home loans where borrowers wrote in their own incomes. Their popularity was iconic; their abuse a catastrophe.

http://news.scotsman.com/opinion/Picking-up-the-pieces-of.6417751.jp

Well - One G Broon was in "charge" of the UK "Economy" for 13 long, miserable years..... And he FAILED, ABYSMALLY. :angry:

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On Channel 4 news today, 43% of mortgages are self certified! That's now!!!

they even used the term 'liar loans' on ch.4 news...

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they even used the term 'liar loans' on ch.4 news...

ALSO - in the GUARDIAN: -

Taking on the liar loans.

Good riddance to liar loans. It has taken the Financial Services Authority five years of study to reach the conclusion that self-certification mortgages are bad news and something should be done to curtail their spread. At least the regulator got there in the end: a ban is in sight.

The case against self-cert loans rests simply on the evidence of the past few years. The product became too hot for lenders to handle with care. Levels of mortgage fraud are too high and arrears rates run at three times the level experienced in mortgages where the lender has bothered to check income. Insisting on verification is a reasonable response.

............/tighter credit conditions are inevitable if we wish to avoid damaging boom-to-bust property binges fuelled by loose lending standards. It's not a popular tune to sing, but it's honest.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jul/14/viewpoint-liar-loans

:rolleyes: I bet the VI's kill this one....

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I think Clegg and Cameron see the first year or so of govt their opportunity to get big changes in against wishes of VIs, let's hope so

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I think Clegg and Cameron see the first year or so of govt their opportunity to get big changes in against wishes of VIs, let's hope so

Nah -- B0ll0cks -

Just WATCH as the VI's kick this into touch....

JUST WATCH....

LIAR LOANS are the ABSOLUTE KEY to keeping the entire house price scam going --- they are going to KILL, cajole, "persuade", eat their babies and fry their grandmothers to STOP this whole idea of banning LIAR LOANS......

JUST WATCH..... :rolleyes:

Edited by eric pebble

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Scotsman: Picking up the pieces of the boom in Liar's Loans.

OF THE many causes of our current misfortunes, the sub-prime mortgage bubble and the rise of "Liar's Loans" - officially called "self-certification mortgages" - featured prominently.

These were home loans where borrowers wrote in their own incomes. Their popularity was iconic; their abuse a catastrophe.

http://news.scotsman.com/opinion/Picking-up-the-pieces-of.6417751.jp

Well - One G Broon was in "charge" of the UK "Economy" for 13 long, miserable years..... And he FAILED, ABYSMALLY. :angry:

But Brown kept telling us how good he was!

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On Channel 4 news today, 43% of mortgages are self certified! That's now!!!

And for a bonus point, how what percentage of those self-certs have no declared repayment vehicle? When I started posting here in 2007, it was in the order of 75% of self-certs post 2005 had no repayment vehicle.

Can't remember who used to do the stats but they stopped producing them shortly after that.

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And for a bonus point, how what percentage of those self-certs have no declared repayment vehicle? When I started posting here in 2007, it was in the order of 75% of self-certs post 2005 had no repayment vehicle.

Can't remember who used to do the stats but they stopped producing them shortly after that.

I wonder why.... :rolleyes:

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Well - One G Broon was in "charge" of the UK "Economy" for 13 long, miserable years..... And he FAILED, ABYSMALLY. :angry:

Its not his fault it has all gone wrong though, he was there busy 'getting on with the job' and 'locking in the recovery' and now these 'nasty Tories' are going to come along and stop 'hard working British families' declaring their incomes to be £100K so they can secure that one bedroom new build flat executive apartment to raise their family in.... :blink:

More seriously I expect the VI's to be clinging onto the IO and self-cert mortgages with as much ******** as they can. Without them the market is seriously broken. Imagine a scenario where the only mortgages allowed were based on a reflection of people's actual salary... with an average wage of ~£26K there would be a big sort out of prices and the investors would clear off as rising rates based on ever increasing mortgages would be stopped in their track.

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And for a bonus point, how what percentage of those self-certs have no declared repayment vehicle? When I started posting here in 2007, it was in the order of 75% of self-certs post 2005 had no repayment vehicle.

Can't remember who used to do the stats but they stopped producing them shortly after that.

A collegue at work bought around then on an IO basis as 'it was cheaper' than repayment which she could not afford. I know for a fact she did not have anything in place for the repayment as she was living the dream with the hire purchase BMW and the rest on a salary of around £14K

After the fiasco of the endowment mortgage misselling, the provision of IO mortgages should have been heavily regulated. I know the clue is in the name 'interest only' but I bet in just a couple of years we are going to see another huge scandal of misselling and lots of daytime tv adverts to support people who did not realise they were only paying back the interest and none of the capital. And probably people suing their mortgage company as their property has gone down in value and they were not told that could happen.

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More seriously I expect the VI's to be clinging onto the IO and self-cert mortgages with as much ******** as they can. Without them the market is seriously broken. Imagine a scenario where the only mortgages allowed were based on a reflection of people's actual salary... with an average wage of ~£26K there would be a big sort out of prices and the investors would clear off as rising rates based on ever increasing mortgages would be stopped in their track.

Yes -- but

WHY IS THIS NOT BEING OPENLY DISCUSSED AS A TOP TOP LEVEL NEWS ITEM??? :rolleyes:

Edited by eric pebble

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Yes -- but

WHY IS THIS NOT BEING OPENLY DISCUSSED AS TOP TOP LEVEL NEWS ITEM??? :rolleyes:

Because it is the truth that no one wants to hear. Imagine the panic once people realise that the house they have been MEWing for the past 10 years is now worth half what they thought it was but they still have to pay back all the loans....

It is a scandal and should be on the front page of every newspaper but that just isnt going to happen until it is far too late.

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Because it is the truth that no one wants to hear. Imagine the panic once people realise that the house they have been MEWing for the past 10 years is now worth half what they thought it was but they still have to pay back all the loans....

It is a scandal and should be on the front page of every newspaper but that just isnt going to happen until it is far too late.

I have no problem with self cert...its just that if you need a hand out, then the Authorities should check what you were earning...there is no excuse for a self cert on a PAYE employee.

I DO have a problem with the FAST TRACK Mortgages....NR, I gather, GUARANTEED NOT to check income.....now call me a cynic, but that guarantee was for what purpose??? just to get volumes up and welcome unlendable borrowers...and thats what they got.

and what we got was a lending ponzi.

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Guest sillybear2

Most likely because the editors, writers, economists have liar loans themselves? :huh:

Papers are packed full of adverts from bankers, financial services, estate agents and builders thus the editor has to drink the kool aid. Six times income IO liar loans become a wonderful thing if your income depends on them, it's the reality distortion field.

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Papers are packed full of adverts from bankers, financial services, estate agents and builders thus the editor has to drink the kool aid. Six times income IO liar loans become a wonderful thing if your income depends on them, it's the reality distortion field.

As a person who abides by the law and has common sense when it comes to financial planning, looking to buy a house in the not too distant future, why does it feel like punishment? You know theres something wrong with society when it comes to that.

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I have no problem with self cert...its just that if you need a hand out, then the Authorities should check what you were earning...there is no excuse for a self cert on a PAYE employee.

No - 'self cert' means no checks. Those who have their own business/self-employed should still be able to provide accounts in some form.

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Guest sillybear2

As a person who abides by the law and has common sense when it comes to financial planning, looking to buy a house in the not too distant future, why does it feel like punishment? You know theres something wrong with society when it comes to that.

The public has a sense of entitlement and loves instant gratification, look at that bloke on Panorama on Monday, he was angry because the bank undervalued the house he wanted to buy and this somehow disrupted some weird kick back scheme he had where a 25% "below market value" meant he didn't have to raise a deposit. People believe they have a right to a mortgage, regardless of eligibility or affordability and everyone panders to this, not least the banks, anyone who points out it might not be a good arrangement for all concerned are labeled 'nasty' or 'doom mongers'.

Edited by sillybear2

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No - 'self cert' means no checks. Those who have their own business/self-employed should still be able to provide accounts in some form.

sure, but if it goes belly up, and you ask for a handout, then the Authorities should check...if you lied, then A: no benefits, B: Police are called.

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The public has a sense of entitlement and loves instant gratification, look at that bloke on Panorama on Monday, he was angry because the bank undervalued the house he wanted to buy and this somehow disrupted some weird kick back scheme he had where a 25% "below market value" meant he didn't have to raise a deposit. People believe they have a right to a mortgage, regardless of eligibility or affordability and everyone panders to this, not least the banks, anyone who points out it might not be a good arrangement for all concerned are labeled 'nasty' or 'doom mongers'.

I saw that program...no way was that mid terrace house worth anything over £100k! His deposit was, what, in the region of £6k? £6k is peanuts. Return to the old days where you had to prove to the bank that you could save something substantial in order to be approved for a mortgage.

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Guest sillybear2

I saw that program...no way was that mid terrace house worth anything over £100k! His deposit was, what, in the region of £6k? £6k is peanuts. Return to the old days where you had to prove to the bank that you could save something substantial in order to be approved for a mortgage.

Quite, but instead of addressing the fact he hadn't saved up enough he just blamed the banks and government, deferring consumption is hard, pointing fingers is easy B)

Being "forced" to live in a council house whilst prices drop means the banks are doing him a huge favour, and it's not like he has to worry about security of tenure.

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sure, but if it goes belly up, and you ask for a handout, then the Authorities should check...if you lied, then A: no benefits, B: Police are called.

Won't happen. Instead -- you and all the others will be greatly rewarded by............ the taxpayer.

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  • 258 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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