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Tony Blair 'feared Mad, Bad Brown'

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I suspect that blairites are preparing the ground to split the party if the alternative vote referendum is carried, ie a liberal-left blairite faction and a brownite old-tax/spend faction, as we will be a parliament of constant coalitions from then and large parties will be irrelevant.

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raises the question - what is so wrong with the labour party that they could not protect the country from this man - as well as their own cause ?

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raises the question - what is so wrong with the labour party that they could not protect the country from this man - as well as their own cause ?

My thoughts exactly - knowing what he knew about GB he was irresponsible and highly reckless with the country's well-being to let him assume power unopposed.

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My thoughts exactly - knowing what he knew about GB he was irresponsible and highly reckless with the country's well-being to let him assume power unopposed.

I hold no brief for TB but seriously, why do you blame him for the lack of opposition to GB in 2007? It was Labour MPs themselves, in overwhelming numbers, who freely chose or allowed themselves to be cajoled into publicly committing to GB, with the result that not even a joker alternative could get a squeeze-in.

So the earlier post asking what was wrong with THE LABOUR PARTY for allowing Brown to march in like that, and allowing him to stay right through, is right on the money.

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I hold no brief for TB but seriously, why do you blame him for the lack of opposition to GB in 2007? It was Labour MPs themselves, in overwhelming numbers, who freely chose or allowed themselves to be cajoled into publicly committing to GB, with the result that not even a joker alternative could get a squeeze-in.

So the earlier post asking what was wrong with THE LABOUR PARTY for allowing Brown to march in like that, and allowing him to stay right through, is right on the money.

Yes, the party as well. That's what "my thoughts entirely" meant when I said I agreed with Si1's "raises the question - what is so wrong with the labour party that they could not protect the country from this man - as well as their own cause ?"

Do people pick fights here for the sake of it, even when they agree? :blink:

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I suspect that blairites are preparing the ground to split the party if the alternative vote referendum is carried, ie a liberal-left blairite faction and a brownite old-tax/spend faction, as we will be a parliament of constant coalitions from then and large parties will be irrelevant.

Surely you mean borrow/spend B)

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Pah! That's rich!

+1

I always considered Blair mad bad and beyond redemption. The slimy sod is trying to regain his 'place in history' by positioning Brown as the person to blame for everything Blair did wrong

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Yes, the party as well. That's what "my thoughts entirely" meant when I said I agreed with Si1's "raises the question - what is so wrong with the labour party that they could not protect the country from this man - as well as their own cause ?"

The fault lies with the architects, not with the components they developed/selected.

The components are flawed of course, but it was inevitable that it should be so, given the agendas and personalities of the architects.

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This says more about Peter Mandelson than it does about Blair or Brown. Right up to the last second of the recent general election campaign, Mandelson was shoulder to shoulder with Brown, a sort of cheerleader, apologist and spin doctor all rolled into one. Now he's come out with all this stuff. It will be interesting to see what Brown might have to say about Mandelson in the future. If Labour had won, Brown would still be PM and Mandelson would probably be a 'loyal' member of the team.

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The Labour Party should be destroyed for foisting this mad man on the public and wrecking the economy. They had a public duty to remove Brown from office is he was unsuitable There needs to be checks and balances put in place to avoid these "coronations" and to remove a prime minister is he is unfit. Then again, this is all good stuff to sell books.

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Do people pick fights here for the sake of it, even when they agree? :blink:

Not ALL the time, JY - just when they don't :lol:

You don't seem to have read my post carefully. I was disputing your implication that TB himself could have secured opposition to Brown in 2007. Why did you say that?

Just to remind you of what you said:

My thoughts exactly - knowing what he knew about GB he was irresponsible and highly reckless with the country's well-being to let him assume power unopposed.

That's he (TB), not they (the party).

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raises the question - what is so wrong with the labour party that they could not protect the country from this man - as well as their own cause ?

Which man? Blair or Brown?

Gordon is a moron, but Blair is/was/forever will be lying scum of the worst kind.

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Which man? Blair or Brown?

Gordon is a moron, but Blair is/was/forever will be lying scum of the worst kind.

The description could fit either.

I will be voting for electoral reform if only to attempt to prevent a similar scenario arising again, with somebody who appears mentally unstable being promoted so far beyond their level of competence with such appalling cost to the populace: absolutely iniquitous that Brown was first allowed into leadership, and then allowed by his own party to remain. Never seen a clearer example of vested interest shafting the common good.

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable

I'm tough on truth and the causes of truth.

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Yes, the party as well. That's what "my thoughts entirely" meant when I said I agreed with Si1's "raises the question - what is so wrong with the labour party that they could not protect the country from this man - as well as their own cause ?"

Do people pick fights here for the sake of it, even when they agree? blink.gif

I suspect there is something in the upbringing of labour MPs, that means they're too scared to say anything, or maybe realising the labour movement depends on loyalty above all else to take on the officer classes, this comes across in Orwell's 'Animal Farm' strangely enough. If you compare them to, say, the two tory MPs that challenged Thatcher in the late 80s (Heseltine and an unknown backbencher) - firstly, tory MPs have a habit of having either being rich in the first place from work or background, and secondly of being able to walk into high paying jobs anyway. Labour political ideologues don't have the education or connections to do this so easily. So if Maggie T had decided to destroy their careers for them they'd survive and she'd look rather daft. I think there is more respect for strict discipline in the working classes in order to tackle the officer classes. I think there is a degree of natural obediency WITHIN the labour movement - 'never break a picket line' etc - stand firm together, the same reason, despite despising Brown, many trad labour voters I know STILL voted labour out of loyalty - which was hard earned by the Atlee governmet, quite frankly, and many decades of hard working opposition.

So maybe this is inevitable in the labour movement, if this is right, then it is a forgiveable trait, strange to say. The damage wrought by Brown is still nowhere near taking back the good social deeds - recognition of equality, welfare state, breaking up of upper class cartels in the 40s/50s, looking after the working classes in and after the war - that labour have done (tho granted much was a continuation of liberal politics). The tory party themselves would be far to the right of where they currently are if it wasn't for the labour movement forcing them to consider the workers. However, I think labour come across as a far better opposition party than a governing party, and strangely, the tories were mostly terrible in opposition....

My own long term preference is to adopt a system whereby we always have coalitions, so at least the other party in power has a veto, I hope the current govt will see an effective transition to this via AV. This is so far, rathe reffectively, keeping the loonie-right of the tories in check, for example. I voted tory but I neither live in a small castle in Surrey nor ever want to, if you see what I mean.

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I suspect there is something in the upbringing of labour MPs,

...

if you see what I mean.

Thanks for taking the time to post that, I think I agree. It'd be interesting to know how close Milliband was to pushing the button and what really prevented him.

And in response to Qet - yes, fair point - I was laying blame on Blair. It was in his gift to get an alternative lined up that was not mad, bad and dangerous to know.

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Thanks for taking the time to post that, I think I agree. It'd be interesting to know how close Milliband was to pushing the button and what really prevented him.

I think, in simple terms, he would have lost and had his career destroyed, like Charles Clark, who is a fine MP and forever destoned to be a backbencher, unforgiven; Frank Field and John Hutton have been labelled 'traitors' for taking jobs with the new government - it is very very tribal, I think that is something that the rank and file liked about Brown, AFAIK, it will always be a class war in their minds, even if they don't realise it but it is against their own children

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raises the question - what is so wrong with the labour party that they could not protect the country from this man - as well as their own cause ?

Fuhrerprinzip.

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Pah! That's rich!

seeing is it was HIM that appointed the so-called mad,bad and dangerous one to such a senior position,do you think that tony might admit to his own abilities in character assessment being a little skewed?

they had known each other for at least a decade prior to labour's election,so I don't think he can call it a snap judgement by any means.

everyone is fallible,but to make a ****-up of such dramatic proportions does not shine too kindly on blair's ability,let alone brown's "incompetence"

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  • 260 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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