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Civil Liberties Drive By Coalition Government Sees Review Of Key Counter-Terrorsm Legislation

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Theresa May, the Home Secretary, said she was looking at correcting the “mistakes” made by the Labour government in creating terrorism legislation that was allowed to “ride roughshod” over civil liberties.

Kenneth Clarke, the Justice Secretary, added to the debate in a speech last night saying there had been a “steady drift towards authoritarianism in recent years” reviving anxieties of an “elective dictatorship.”

The government is looking at withdrawing the system of control orders where terrorism suspects who cannot be brought to trial are electronically tagged and put under house arrest. The 28 day detention limit for terrorism suspects to be held without charge is also to be reviewed, the Home Secretary announced, with a view to bringing the limit down. Ms May said she wanted a counter-terrorism regime that is “proportionate, focused and transparent” and “in keeping with Britain’s traditions of freedom and fairness.” “We will look at the evidence presented to us and where it is clear that legislation needs to be amended or powers need to be rolled back, we will do so,” she said.

But Alan Johnson, the shadow home secretary, accused the Coalition government of “immature and partisan attacks on the previous government.” He criticised the government for failing to give the security services the same protection from cuts enjoyed by the Department for International Development

The review is to be headed by Lord Macdonald, the former Director of Public Prosecutions, a human rights barrister. The pressure group Liberty has been invited to contribute. It will also include a review of the use of the recently suspended Section 44 random stop and search powers and the use of terrorism laws to stop photography. The review will also look at limiting the use of the controversial Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA) by local authorities.

This is excellent news and I'm glad to see it being addressed so quickly and, apparently, comprehensively. Sound comments from Clarke, and predictable denial and idiocy from Johnson - I'd have voted for anyone but Labour on the basis of him alone. Be interesting to see what the outcome is in practice.

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This is excellent news and I'm glad to see it being addressed so quickly and, apparently, comprehensively. Sound comments from Clarke, and predictable denial and idiocy from Johnson - I'd have voted for anyone but Labour on the basis of him alone. Be interesting to see what the outcome is in practice.

That one did make me chuckle. The Anti-Terrorism laws are being changed because they are in conflict with the Human Rights Legislation and the government are required by Europe to alter the legislation.

The Conservative Party have long stood to repeal these laws as they see them as external interference in Britain's key decision-making areas.

Theresa May has been told what to do by Europe and sells it to the public as repeal of draconian legislation.

The tiger in kitten-heels has no bite.

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This is excellent news and I'm glad to see it being addressed so quickly and, apparently, comprehensively. Sound comments from Clarke, and predictable denial and idiocy from Johnson - I'd have voted for anyone but Labour on the basis of him alone. Be interesting to see what the outcome is in practice.

Since rolling back Labour's police state is probably the biggest area of clear agreement between the two parties, I think we can reasonably hope for some real improvements on this one.

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Since rolling back Labour's police state is probably the biggest area of clear agreement between the two parties, I think we can reasonably hope for some real improvements on this one.

Indeed. I remember Labour - and Harriet Harman in particular - moaning on for years about the old, annually renewed, anti-terrorism act which, compared to the stuff NuLab put through, was at the level of a teacher giving a kid an extra hour of detention.

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Indeed. I remember Labour - and Harriet Harman in particular - moaning on for years about the old, annually renewed, anti-terrorism act which, compared to the stuff NuLab put through, was at the level of a teacher giving a kid an extra hour of detention.

Yes,it will all be fine until the bombs go off.Then the recriminations will begin.The naivety of the coalition is apparent.

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Yes,it will all be fine until the bombs go off.Then the recriminations will begin.The naivety of the coalition is apparent.

Not from me, I don't want to live in a police state just because of the minute risk of me being pipe bombed.

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Yes,it will all be fine until the bombs go off.Then the recriminations will begin.The naivety of the coalition is apparent.

I suspect the security services would not be above going on a fund raiser. They know who all the crazies are and its easy to slip them some tips and look the other way. A few explosions always brings in more funding.

I guess it depends on your appetite for risk. I have never met a terrorist, nor have I ever met anyone who has met one. I have never been blown up by a bomb either or known anyone who has been. However, I very much do know I am being monitored by street cameras, that my e-mail is scanned, that my phone calls are being logged because they passed the legislation to do it. I know that I can now be held for 40 days without access to lawyers or family and that my right to trial by jury has been abolished. That I may be given a 'spot penalty notice' without trial and am beset by an army of 'community offers' sent forth to harass the public.

At some point they have to come down from their clouds. It is a story, just a story, about terrorists. The reality is not danger from terrorists but danger from government.

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That one did make me chuckle. The Anti-Terrorism laws are being changed because they are in conflict with the Human Rights Legislation and the government are required by Europe to alter the legislation.

The Conservative Party have long stood to repeal these laws as they see them as external interference in Britain's key decision-making areas.

Theresa May has been told what to do by Europe and sells it to the public as repeal of draconian legislation.

The tiger in kitten-heels has no bite.

Surely you will derive equal amusement from the fact that Labour - your government of choice - and dedicated supporters of the Humans Rights Act, were the very buffoons to introduce legislation that contravenes the aforementioned Human Rights Act. :lol:

I'm sure they had our their best interests when they decided to abandon old fashioned, outdated ideas like trial by jury and innocence until proven guilty. :lol::lol:

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Not from me, I don't want to live in a police state just because of the minute risk of me being pipe bombed.

Same here, I'm more than happy to assume any (most likely non-existent) extra risk. The IRA were far scarier than these Islamic loons - and killed many more people - and we managed to cope without all NuLab's authoritarianism. If the only answer to a bunch of people who want to impose a totalitarian regime on the country is to impose a totalitarian regime of our own, what's the point of living in a democracy to start with?

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Yes,it will all be fine until the bombs go off.Then the recriminations will begin.The naivety of the coalition is apparent.

Well the Madrid train bombing only happened very soon after Spain announced their withdrawal from Iraq (which makes no sense when you think about it really) , so as long as the UK stays in Iraq and Afghanistan she'll be chipper as far as terrorist attack go :lol: oh those crazy towelheads.

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Surely you will derive equal amusement from the fact that Labour - your government of choice - and dedicated supporters of the Humans Rights Act, were the very buffoons to introduce legislation that contravenes the aforementioned Human Rights Act. :lol:

I'm sure they had our their best interests when they decided to abandon old fashioned, outdated ideas like trial by jury and innocence until proven guilty. :lol::lol:

So does that mean you'll be opposing the removal of the Human Rights Act then or are you content to see it removed?

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So does that mean you'll be opposing the removal of the Human Rights Act then or are you content to see it removed?

I am looking forward to seeing the removal / watering down of the following legislation that I believe infringes my freedom and basic human rights:

- Control orders

- 28 day holding without charge

- Stop and search (Section 44)

- Attempts to criminalise photography in public places

- Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA)

As for the Human Rights Act - I think it plays a valuable role but only because we don't have a defined set of constitutional rights (like the US Bill of Rights) , so I have no problems with the proposition from the coalition to allow an independent commission to look at replacing the Human Rights Act with a British "Bill of Rights".

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I suspect that what defeats terrorism are top quality anti terrorist professionals of all the specialism and staying power.

Draconian law in breach of human rights legislation might be apt to distract attention, leech competence and engender complacency.

Bad law never made anything good least, of all anti terrorist professionals.

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I suspect that what defeats terrorism are top quality anti terrorist professionals of all the specialism and staying power.

Draconian law in breach of human rights legislation might be apt to distract attention, leech competence and engender complacency.

Bad law never made anything good least, of all anti terrorist professionals.

No, what really defeats terrorism is staying out of other people's countries and not stealing their assets. What we have now termed terrorism or asymmetrical warfare, the other side sees as freedom fighting.

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I think that argument held some water until 9 - 11.

At the beginning of Bush's first term it was his administration's stated position that you cannot involve yourself in other people's problems if they don't want you. I think this may have had something to do with the lack of a return from Clinton's considerable efforts to find some solution to the Israel/Palestine thing.

We know the result there.

Similar thing with 12 - 7 - 1941, the septics were caught with their pants down while trying to keep their distance.

The Americans are not stealing the assets of Saudi Arabia and nor are the Brits. They are buying them at market value. The Americans and their allies the Brits had no interest in Afghanistan until Al-Qaeda terrorists killed c. 3000 innocent civilians.

The Brits have handed their whole blinking empire back and gone home but they are still targets.

Would anyone seriously suggest we should stop going on holiday to Bali? What kind of a world would that be? And last I heard the UK doesn't want to set off bombs in Lahore just because most of the taxi drivers in Tooting are from there.

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Surely you will derive equal amusement from the fact that Labour - your government of choice - and dedicated supporters of the Humans Rights Act, were the very buffoons to introduce legislation that contravenes the aforementioned Human Rights Act. :lol:

I'm sure they had our their best interests when they decided to abandon old fashioned, outdated ideas like trial by jury and innocence until proven guilty. :lol::lol:

As someone on the left of politics I have sadly to agree with your analysis. The humour of the Tories having their wings clipped by "Europe" is not lost and the cuts to the terrorists (oops Police) when Maggie bolstered them to beat the sh1t out the working class is also ironic.

I too am happy to see the back of the Blair "New Labour" third-way project and its bully-boy stance. I am glad to see the back of Thatcherism and a new one-nation Tory party. I look forward to a revitalised and centre left Labour party when they have finished bickering. If Labour cannot find its roots the next election will be another "none of the above" whitewash :(

Now let's have a nice gentle non-destructive HPC as the icing on the cake :D

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I am looking forward to seeing the removal / watering down of the following legislation that I believe infringes my freedom and basic human rights:

- Control orders

- 28 day holding without charge

- Stop and search (Section 44)

- Attempts to criminalise photography in public places

- Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA)

As for the Human Rights Act - I think it plays a valuable role but only because we don't have a defined set of constitutional rights (like the US Bill of Rights) , so I have no problems with the proposition from the coalition to allow an independent commission to look at replacing the Human Rights Act with a British "Bill of Rights".

Interesting: what would you Bill of Rights include:

Would the following be permitted?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jul/16/parliament-square-protesters-lose-appeal

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Interesting: what would you Bill of Rights include:

Would the following be permitted?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jul/16/parliament-square-protesters-lose-appeal

Depends on how they behave probably. Freedom of assembly doesn't cover things like squatting, intimidation, public nuisance, blocking the highway etc.

It would be for a judge to decide the grey areas.

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Interesting: what would you Bill of Rights include:

Would the following be permitted?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jul/16/parliament-square-protesters-lose-appeal

You really can't help shooting yourself in the foot can you? Can't be many toes left by now :lol:

No small irony that the "peace camp" is protesting against illegal foreign wars that the Labour party led us into :lol::lol:

I don't like to see the right to protest curtailed, which is why I didn't support the last government when it passed specific legislation to try and remove:

http://www.parliament-square.org.uk/about.html

But, due to their usual incompetence, the legislation was flawed meaning it didn't affect Brian!

BTW, what's your position on the following freedom reducing measures that your beloved Labour party introduced? :D

- Control orders

- 28 day holding without charge

- Stop and search (Section 44)

- Attempts to criminalise photography in public places

- Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA)

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You really can't help shooting yourself in the foot can you? Can't be many toes left by now :lol:

No small irony that the "peace camp" is protesting against illegal foreign wars that the Labour party led us into :lol::lol:

I don't like to see the right to protest curtailed, which is why I didn't support the last government when it passed specific legislation to try and remove:

http://www.parliamen...g.uk/about.html

But, due to their usual incompetence, the legislation was flawed meaning it didn't affect Brian!

BTW, what's your position on the following freedom reducing measures that your beloved Labour party introduced? :D

- Control orders

- 28 day holding without charge

- Stop and search (Section 44)

- Attempts to criminalise photography in public places

- Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA)

So why doesn't Boris let them carry on protesting? I don't see how letting them camp there does anyone any harm. Surely if the Conservative party supported free speech Boris would have stopped the eviction process.

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I think that argument held some water until 9 - 11.

At the beginning of Bush's first term it was his administration's stated position that you cannot involve yourself in other people's problems if they don't want you. I think this may have had something to do with the lack of a return from Clinton's considerable efforts to find some solution to the Israel/Palestine thing.

We know the result there.

Similar thing with 12 - 7 - 1941, the septics were caught with their pants down while trying to keep their distance.

The Americans are not stealing the assets of Saudi Arabia and nor are the Brits. They are buying them at market value. The Americans and their allies the Brits had no interest in Afghanistan until Al-Qaeda terrorists killed c. 3000 innocent civilians.

The Brits have handed their whole blinking empire back and gone home but they are still targets.

Would anyone seriously suggest we should stop going on holiday to Bali? What kind of a world would that be? And last I heard the UK doesn't want to set off bombs in Lahore just because most of the taxi drivers in Tooting are from there.

I have pointed out, elsewhere in this forum, that the official FBI wanted poster for Osama Bin Laden does not mention the events of 9-11. When questioned, they replied that they had no evidence linking him to the attacks that day. The American government demanded Afghanistan extradite Bin Laden, they replied that they didn't know where he was, they didn't have an extrdition treaty with the US, but they would if the USA provided some evidence. No Afghanis were ever wanted in connection with 9-11, and no Iraqi's either, we had no "terrorism" emanating from these countries either. Ireland, you heard of that place? Now, there's real terrorists.

The USA provided no evidence, and invaded both countries anyway. Now we hear, years later, that the Afghans have large mineral resources.

Surprise, surprise.

Bin Laden Poster

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Al-Qaeda did not admit its involvement in 9 - 11 in the immediate aftermath but has done since.

If you are suggesting the Taliban offers are to be relied upon I think you are wrong.

Nearly all the 9 - 11 attackers were from Saudi Arabia.

A country that has not had its resources stolen or succumbed to cultural imperialism.

Of course people shouldn't go where they are not wanted or steal other people's stuff but there is scant causal link between these things and terrorism, funnily.

Example,

The 280 Canadian nationals who perished on Air India flight 182.

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Al-Qaeda did not admit its involvement in 9 - 11 in the immediate aftermath but has done since.

If you are suggesting the Taliban offers are to be relied upon I think you are wrong.

Nearly all the 9 - 11 attackers were from Saudi Arabia.

A country that has not had its resources stolen or succumbed to cultural imperialism.

Of course people shouldn't go where they are not wanted or steal other people's stuff but there is scant causal link between these things and terrorism, funnily.

Example,

The 280 Canadian nationals who perished on Air India flight 182.

Link?

And quite few of those Saudi's are still alive. Makes you think, doesn't it?

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Dunno what this thread's about but I wanna get that squat toilet thread off the top slot :blink:

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  • 258 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
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      • up 5%



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