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Equity And Excellence: Liberating The Nhs

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7. The NHS will need to achieve unprecedented efficiency gains, with savings reinvested in front-line services, to meet the current financial challenge and the future costs of demographic and technological change:

v. The NHS will release up to £20 billion of efficiency savings by 2014, which will be reinvested to support improvements in quality and outcomes.

w. The Government will reduce NHS management costs by more than 45% over the next four years, freeing up further resources for front-line care.

x. We will radically delayer and simplify the number of NHS bodies, and radically reduce the Department of Healths own NHS functions. We will abolish quangos that do not need to exist and streamline the functions of those that do.

Link to white paper: http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/@dh/@en/@ps/documents/digitalasset/dh_117352.pdf

Edited by flatnose

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Some common sense at last?

Until you appreciate that the Doctors who are now to be in charge of the budgets are not even qualified, nor have the time to do it. How will they decide if some esoteric small unit gets funding or not?

At least with a centralised approach the regions can decide which place becomes a specialist center for what, and ensure that all bases are covered. My fear is the new approach means popular diseases get departments in every location, but lesser diseases get nothing in the UK at all.

I am not saying the old system was perfect, but it did have that one thing going for it. Just cut some of the red tape, don't get out a chainsaw and blitz every bit of tape you find red, white and blue.

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Until you appreciate that the Doctors who are now to be in charge of the budgets are not even qualified, nor have the time to do it. How will they decide if some esoteric small unit gets funding or not?

err - they'll subcontract the bean-counting

At least with a centralised approach the regions can decide which place becomes a specialist center for what, and ensure that all bases are covered.

i think the argument is that the market will decide better - but of course, in this instance, time will tell

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I can just see the headlines in the Sun/Express 2 years from now (and the hysterical posts on here/phone calls to talksport) about Nurses/Doctors/Police/Firefighters spending most of their time doing paperwork when they should be trating patients/preventing crime/putting out fires. It's what you wanted.

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I can just see the headlines in the Sun/Express 2 years from now (and the hysterical posts on here/phone calls to talksport) about Nurses/Doctors/Police/Firefighters spending most of their time doing paperwork when they should be trating patients/preventing crime/putting out fires. It's what you wanted.

paperwork will be subcontracted

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err - they'll subcontract the bean-counting

i think the argument is that the market will decide better - but of course, in this instance, time will tell

So subcontract the bean counting times 100,000 doctors, versus a handful of centralised bean counters. I can see money wastage there.

Also good luck with your health, if you are unfortunate enough to get a rare-ish disease you may find there is no-place to turn as the centers were closed down.

I am still hoping I am wrong but yet to hear how they will ensure the wide coverage our NHS has at present.

And by the way, it improved incredibly under Labour, and had been decimated prior to that under Cons.

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paperwork will be subcontracted

Oh yeah. I remember last time around when they tried to cut back on admin 'wasters'. It's what led to the police spending most of their time indoors and doctors trying to be accountants when they should have been trying to be doctors. Even if they do ouitsource, what makes you think that private sector costs including dividends to shareholders/profits to parent company will be better value to the taxpayer than public sector costs including alledged inneficiency ?

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So subcontract the bean counting times 100,000 doctors, versus a handful of centralised bean counters. I can see money wastage there.

no you can't. you haven't a clue what you are on about have you?

Also good luck with your health, if you are unfortunate enough to get a rare-ish disease you may find there is no-place to turn as the centers were closed down.

I am still hoping I am wrong but yet to hear how they will ensure the wide coverage our NHS has at present.

And by the way, it improved incredibly under Labour, and had been decimated prior to that under Cons.

labour simply thew extraordinary amounts of money at it you wally

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Even if they do ouitsource, what makes you think that private sector costs including dividends to shareholders/profits to parent company will be better value to the taxpayer than public sector costs including alledged inneficiency ?

indeed - that is the big question...

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...Even if they do ouitsource, what makes you think that private sector costs including dividends to shareholders/profits to parent company will be better value to the taxpayer than public sector costs including alledged inneficiency ?

'course it will be.

just think of all the cash we saved when we got rid of those silly, ineficient council houses and replaced them with housing benefit paid directly to magnificent champions of the free market, namely private BTL-ers.

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indeed - that is the big question...

,

if you look at previous sub-contracting in the NHS with cleaning services then the omens are not good. It's possible although by no means certain that money was saved. What is certain is that it led to lack of ownership by disinterested staff and employers and the result was filthy hospitals and MRSA. If you outsource jobs to people that will do the job at the cheapest rate then you get the cheapest job (and i'm not talking finance).

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,

if you look at previous sub-contracting in the NHS with cleaning services then the omens are not good. It's possible although by no means certain that money was saved. What is certain is that it led to lack of ownership by disinterested staff and employers and the result was filthy hospitals and MRSA. If you outsource jobs to people that will do the job at the cheapest rate then you get the cheapest job (and i'm not talking finance).

they said that about the NASA moon launches too

this can go either way - I think the intention is that by having all GPs surgeries individually outsourcing to a limited number of bean-counting-service-providers who do the paper-work to enable the GPs to select how they spend their money, that ownership and focus is achieved from the GPs' own sense of ownership and trickles down - ie a true market

of course you are right it might not work this way

to me this could either be a triumph or quite a bad fudge that needs re-arranging again in 5 years time at high cost

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no you can't. you haven't a clue what you are on about have you?

labour simply thew extraordinary amounts of money at it you wally

Actually I do.

Er just threw money at it? Sure, no point even discussing it with you if your argument falls to insults.

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they said that about the NASA moon launches too

this can go either way - I think the intention is that by having all GPs surgeries individually outsourcing to a limited number of bean-counting-service-providers who do the paper-work to enable the GPs to select how they spend their money, that ownership and focus is achieved from the GPs' own sense of ownership and trickles down - ie a true market

of course you are right it might not work this way

to me this could either be a triumph or quite a bad fudge that needs re-arranging again in 5 years time at high cost

Problem is that it could finish uo costing lives as well as money.

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Problem is that it could finish uo costing lives as well as money.

surely that's the case with any healthcare culture change - if it saves money then that saves lives at the same time, cuts both ways

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So subcontract the bean counting times 100,000 doctors, versus a handful of centralised bean counters. I can see money wastage there.

Also good luck with your health, if you are unfortunate enough to get a rare-ish disease you may find there is no-place to turn as the centers were closed down.

I am still hoping I am wrong but yet to hear how they will ensure the wide coverage our NHS has at present.

And by the way, it improved incredibly under Labour, and had been decimated prior to that under Cons.

People will always be able to get treatment for their rare disease on the NHS. It's not really a huge concern as the vast majority of people get common diseases.

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Actually I do.

Er just threw money at it? Sure, no point even discussing it with you if your argument falls to insults.

I found your inference that I didn't care about the clinical result to be insulting in the first place

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Until you appreciate that the Doctors who are now to be in charge of the budgets are not even qualified, nor have the time to do it. How will they decide if some esoteric small unit gets funding or not?

At least with a centralised approach the regions can decide which place becomes a specialist center for what, and ensure that all bases are covered. My fear is the new approach means popular diseases get departments in every location, but lesser diseases get nothing in the UK at all.

I am not saying the old system was perfect, but it did have that one thing going for it. Just cut some of the red tape, don't get out a chainsaw and blitz every bit of tape you find red, white and blue.

The whole measurement culture is an interesting problem. The only way that a clinician's effectiveness can be measured and opined upon is by another clinician.

I think that we have probably confused measurement with adminisitration. As the measurement culture grew, the power transfer to administrators grew simultaneously.

We need to allow for specialist administrators without granting them too much heirarchical power at the expense of the few who are able to actually measure the effectiveness of clinical outcomes.

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  • 138 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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