What Are These Increments ?

[Fishman]

I've heard the word 'increments' mentioned a few times in regard to public sector pay.

Can someone clarify how and when these increases are given. I presume they are in addition to annual

negogiated pay increases?

Is it some form of increase for long service and are they guaranteed?

Are they part of the grading system used in the public sector?

[scottbeard]

I've heard the word 'increments' mentioned a few times in regard to public sector pay.

Can someone clarify how and when these increases are given. I presume they are in addition to annual

negogiated pay increases?

Is it some form of increase for long service and are they guaranteed?

Are they part of the grading system used in the public sector?

My guess is that they reflect promotional increases i.e. for more responsibility, but not sure

[Dorkins]

When I worked at a university (I left last year), everybody was promoted to the next point on the payscale automatically each year. In addition to this, the salary at each point on the payscale would increase by whatever percentage the union had negotiated. So effectively you would get two payrises each year, one due to increased seniority (not a promotion, just a question of time served) and one based on what the union had negotiated. I believe this is pretty standard practice.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Dorkins

[Gone baby gone]

They are pay rises based on "seniority". For example, a rookie teacher might start on 23k, but that is the bottom of their pay scale. Each year they will go up an "increment" on the pay scale which might equate to an increase of approx £1,000 until they get to the top 7-8 years later.

The increments are different from the "cost of living" increases that everyone (including those at the top of their pay scale) gets automatically. The pay freeze does not (AFAIK) affect the increments, only the cost of living increase.

[opt_out]

During my time in the 90s, my dept made it performance related. Split the increments in 4, and then depending on performance and where you were on the scale you got so many increments.

If you were near the bottom of the scale, and got an excellent review you could get jump 8 steps. If you were nearing the top, and did a mediocre job you got about 1 step.

I'm not sure how they currently manage the increments and how they avoid falling foul of age discrimination. If I had been there 2 years and was doing just as good a job as someone who had been there 10 years I would want the same pay.

[Guest_FaFa!_*]

My guess is that they reflect promotional increases i.e. for more responsibility, but not sure

Here are the pay scales for Durham Uni admin for example

http://www.dur.ac.uk/hr/payandreward/payscale/

There are grades 1-9, within said grades are increments. So, for example, grade 5 would be from 19,743 to £24,273 with increments at £19743, 20327, 20938, 21565, 22236, 22879, 23566, 24273. When someone is recruited to Grade 5, the management would aim to get them starting on 19743. Each year they move up an increment, meaning that after 7 years they would be on 24273. Any pay increase won by the unions would be added to each increment, so if the unions got a 5% payrise, increment 1 on Grade 5 would become 20730 and the highest increment would become 25487.

Hope that is clear.

Edited for spelling and typos

Edited July 13, 2010 by Shylock

[Fishman]

Thanks for all the replies.

All seems very convoluted.

So when is a pay freeze not a pay freeze ?

When you work in the public sector by all accounts.

[Guest_FaFa!_*]

Thanks for all the replies.

All seems very convoluted.

So when is a pay freeze not a pay freeze ?

When you work in the public sector by all accounts.

The argument is that the real wage for the job is the top end of the scale and those not there are not expected to have total ownership of the role. Therefore freezing the top of the scale is a freeze, as increments don't count.

I don't agree with that myself, but I believe that is argument given

Edited July 13, 2010 by Shylock

[newbonic]

They are pay rises based on "seniority". For example, a rookie teacher might start on 23k, but that is the bottom of their pay scale. Each year they will go up an "increment" on the pay scale which might equate to an increase of approx £1,000 until they get to the top 7-8 years later.

The increments are different from the "cost of living" increases that everyone (including those at the top of their pay scale) gets automatically. The pay freeze does not (AFAIK) affect the increments, only the cost of living increase.

It's similar in the NHS - the top of say, band 4 could be more than the bottom of band 5. But a freeze could still allow people to get payrises by trundling automatically up their bands. LINK

[blankster]

If you stay in the same job in the public sector, you get a small increment each year up to a maximum. It's just the same thing as people get given pay rises in the private sector or self-employed people putting up their fees, except it's all made official, like.

[Timak]

Just like to point out that my wife has not had an incremental or inflationary pay rise for 3 years in her scientific research public sector job - with another 2 year freeze (increments AND inflation element).

Oh and her inflationary element in the 9 years she has now worked there has never exceeded 1% - that's right 1%.

In the same time in the private sector I've increased my fees by around 5-10% per annum.

[SarahBell]

My guess is that they reflect promotional increases i.e. for more responsibility, but not sure

From what I remember they are automatic.

When I started at the council at the bottom of the payscale they were making changes and that meant that all the existing people doing that job went to top of payscale and us newbies all started on the bottom of it.

http://www.walsall.gov.uk/index/national_pay_scales.htm

payscales pdf there

I think we should scrap all the PO grades.

And pay car use same as I can claim - ie: 40p

[bogbrush]

They are pay rises for hanging around.

Yes, that's how it works in the wacky world of public sector.

[headmelter]

It's similar in the NHS - the top of say, band 4 could be more than the bottom of band 5. But a freeze could still allow people to get payrises by trundling automatically up their bands. LINK

There are now gateways to negotiate which should only be awarded when an employee demonstrates they have improved their knowledge and skill related to their particular profession and are undertaking more responsibility and ultimately more work.

[newbonic]

There are now gateways to negotiate which should only be awarded when an employee demonstrates they have improved their knowledge and skill related to their particular profession and are undertaking more responsibility and ultimately more work.

I've just asked a senior nurse of my acquaintance who works for the NHS in Yorks, and they get still automatic pay rises of 1 step up the increment band, until they reach the top of their band.

[Saver]

The argument is that the real wage for the job is the top end of the scale and those not there are not expected to have total ownership of the role. Therefore freezing the top of the scale is a freeze, as increments don't count.

I don't agree with that myself, but I believe that is argument given

Not sure how that works - if you move from uni A to uni B to do the same job you start at the bottom of the pay scale again at Uni B very often!

[peahead]

I've just asked a senior nurse of my acquaintance who works for the NHS in Yorks, and they get still automatic pay rises of 1 step up the increment band, until they reach the top of their band.

you can start on say £18/20k p.a for admin job and then you get an increase each year of about £1k and an inflationary rise so salary goes us until you reach year 6 when you are stuffed as you can end up being overpaid for job you are doing, hate where you are but can't find a private sector job that will offer as much pay, don;t want to lose the pension and don;t want to give up the flexi

[beccles]

They are pay rises for hanging around.

Yes, that's how it works in the wacky world of public sector.

In the area of the public sector I work increments were intruduced as a cost cutting measure in 1999.

It meant at the time I had a pay freeze for about 3/4years.

[headmelter]

I've just asked a senior nurse of my acquaintance who works for the NHS in Yorks, and they get still automatic pay rises of 1 step up the increment band, until they reach the top of their band.

What's a 'senior' nurse ?

Maybe AFC hasn,t been implemented fully in Yorks .

[Phil S]

During my time in the 90s, my dept made it performance related. Split the increments in 4, and then depending on performance and where you were on the scale you got so many increments.

If you were near the bottom of the scale, and got an excellent review you could get jump 8 steps. If you were nearing the top, and did a mediocre job you got about 1 step.

I'm not sure how they currently manage the increments and how they avoid falling foul of age discrimination. If I had been there 2 years and was doing just as good a job as someone who had been there 10 years I would want the same pay.

In the NHS it's absolutely nothing to do with age. You get 'rewarded' by experience and ability to do the job well by receiving a small increase every year. Near the bottom and top of the salary scales you have to prove you've met your knowledge & skills requirements to advance through the pay 'gateways'. If you've underperformed it will be discussed at annual appraisal and you may not go through the pay gateway.

One argument is that you actually get underpaid untill you're 7-8 years in the job.

Edited July 14, 2010 by Phil S

[athe]

Not sure how that works - if you move from uni A to uni B to do the same job you start at the bottom of the pay scale again at Uni B very often!

That would be very unusual - I've never heard of anyone moving for less than their current grade/spine point. I'm sure it does happen, but reckon it must be pretty rare from what I see.

[athe]

The argument is that the real wage for the job is the top end of the scale and those not there are not expected to have total ownership of the role. Therefore freezing the top of the scale is a freeze, as increments don't count.

I don't agree with that myself, but I believe that is argument given

My personal experience is that by the time I got to the top of the grade I was doing a lot more/working much longer hours/taking on more responsibility, than I was/did/had when I started at the bottom of the grade.

It worth noting that the increments don't go on for ever (typically around 5 to 7 years, after which you'd need a promotion to continue), and whilst automatic are not an entitlement (poor performance could prevent it, although you're more likely just to get the sack). Further, there's basically no way of negotiating a payrise other than the increments, unlike the private sector.

Even with increments and the occasional cost of living, Uni salaries still fell behind both public and private sector :-(

[TeddyBear]

I don't understand how increments are legal as we were told in private sector that can't pay people different salaries for doing the same job.

Friend of mine has joined the NHS in her thirties. The job is on a payband but other people on the payband, who have worked in the NHS for longer get more than her for doing exactly the same job, they have had "increments" going up each year since they joined.

Anyway, certainly in her part of the NHS the increments seem to be automatic even though in theory they are supposed to meet certain objectives to get them. I was quite shocked to hear of this system, I know people in private sector who haven't had pay rises for years, especially if they are in an industry that has seen a lot of of wage pressure when it can be outsourced to cheaper countries.

[Quicken]

Just like to point out that my wife has not had an incremental or inflationary pay rise for 3 years in her scientific research public sector job - with another 2 year freeze (increments AND inflation element).

Oh and her inflationary element in the 9 years she has now worked there has never exceeded 1% - that's right 1%.

In the same time in the private sector I've increased my fees by around 5-10% per annum.

Confirmed. The 2 year pay freeze at my workplace (public sector scientific institution) is complete - inflation adjustments and increments.

Q

[jaynewcastle]

Is it essentially health & education workers who receive these annual increments, in addition to their annual payrise ?.

Some people appear to believe this happens across the whole of the public sector, which isn't correct