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apom

Affordable Housing Now

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Step 1

Find your MP

http://www.parliament.uk/directories/hciolists/alms.cfm

Step 2

Take this letter:

(Thanks to struthitsruth for that one.)

Its better then any one I could create, change to suit yourself... This one is great though..

Rt Hon Oliver Letwin (Change the name here)

House of Commons

LONDON

SW1A 0AA

LIE TO BUY MORTGAGE FRAUD

Dear Mr Letwin

I am writing to ask for your support in bringing an end to serious fraud that is being perpetrated still despite investigations begun by the BBC Money Programme in 20031.

Figures released by the Council of Mortage Lenders in 2004 show that 1/3rd of all mortgage lending was “income non-verified” and 1/5th of all mortgage debt had never had income verified against the borrowing.

The FSA conducted a review into the self-certified mortgage market in early 2004 which concluded that lenders had sufficient controls in place against fraud.2 The FSA also issued guidelines to mortgage lenders in February 2004 which included the following information :

“From Oct 31 2004, lenders will need to comply with the MCOB 11 rules on responsible lending, which will require assessment of ability to repay whatever the LTV ratio.” 3

Non-verified lending at the end of 2003 amounted to £147bn of outstanding mortgage balances. It is a criminal offence to lie about your income to obtain a mortgage.

I believe that the practice of turning a blind eye to income verification continues today. I am only able to base this on anecdotal evidence, but I am confident that an analysis of further information would provide supporting evidence of a more substantial kind.

The income non-verified mortgages figures from lenders and earnings figures from the government statistics office ( that should be modal average earnings, i.e. what most of us earn rather than a national average figure that is swollen by massive salaries very quickly ) would show that current house prices make purchase impossible for many buyers without resorting to lying about their income.

There’s a lot of debt out there. There are many of us who prefer to play with a straight bat and comply with the law. House purchase has been put out of our reach and that of our families because of the massive scale that fraud has been, and continues to be, carried out in the mortgage market.

Please can you look into this and let me know your findings.

Yours sincerely

print it.

Get a stamp and do this.

Please do this..

(P.S I always have stamps in my wallet..

amazing how useful that is.. try it...a life tip.. I digress...)

Two related threads.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...&st=0&p=177394&

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...opic=14247&st=0

and for the fraud information

this is what is going on.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3478635.stm

http://www.alansteel.com/archives/articles_quotes.aspx?id=67

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The solution to stopping this type of fraud is easy, or it would have beeen easy had the Government got off their backsides.

Joe Bloggs takes out a self cert, the amount he has applied for is then cross checked at the Inland Revenue.

Scenario 1. Joe has lied about his income to the Inland Revenue, and is made to pay his share in taxes.

Scenario 2. Joe has lied to the Building Society/bank, loan is turned down.

Scenario 3. Joe has told the truth, gets loan.

Sam

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The solution is here.

find your MP, print the letter and post the letter.

this will not work unless everyone who wants this to happen who reads this does this.

Just take a small amount of time.

5 minutes, this could help..

If it drops house prices by only £5,000 you just made £5,000 in five minutes.

Are you a premier division footballer>?

No..

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You don't even need a stamp!

http://www.writetothem.com/

Used it before, it appears to work well.

excellent site! just used it so hopefully it will get through to mr. caborn...

apom, an excellent idea to bring this to the attention of our legislators from the point of view of the 'disenfranchised' first time buyer. it has long been my concern that the current bubble has been driven, in the main, by this type of fraudulent borrowing/irresponsible lending, regardless of the wider economic conditions. as you rightly say, the enforcing of borrowing guidelines may only knock £5000 from house prices, but at least it will offer a level playing field for all borrowers.

i'll keep you posted on the nature of mr caborn's reply...

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excellent site! just used it so hopefully it will get through to mr. caborn...

apom, an excellent idea to bring this to the attention of our legislators from the point of view of the 'disenfranchised' first time buyer. it has long been my concern that the current bubble has been driven, in the main, by this type of fraudulent borrowing/irresponsible lending, regardless of the wider economic conditions. as you rightly say, the enforcing of borrowing guidelines may only knock £5000 from house prices, but at least it will offer a level playing field for all borrowers.

i'll keep you posted on the nature of mr caborn's reply...

I imagine that this would produce a much bigger drop.

1/3rd of all new lending is income non verified.

Average flat with two beds is over £130,000 and the average FTB (25-35) salary is less than £20,000

that is 6.5 times the salary.

If people could only borrow 4 times then good luck finding a buyer at £130,000

this could and can be massive for us

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But bare in mind that some self certs are above board. If you are a Director or business owner you don't necessarily earn enough through PAYE .... however your income is more than enough to cover your repayments. I've never had anything other than a self cert mortgage and it's never done me any harm :) If I can avoid it I'm not exactly going to inform the tax man of my total eranings IYSWIM ;)

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My message was as follows

Dear Angela Browning,

This letter relates to large concerns that I have relating to the current endemic of apparent mortgage fraud that is being carried out.

I am confident that now I make you aware of this you can take action to ensure that it does not continue.

Current figures show that 1/3rd of all mortages are "income non verified" Meaning that the lender requires no proof of income from the customer.

With house prices at current levels all First Time Buyers should be effictivly priced out of the market unless there was a way round.

Invesigations carried out by the BBC back up my thoughts on this.

The article can be found at :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3478635.stm

Obviously I cannot compete in a market where this level of fraud is ongoing.

The FSA claim that these mortages are about 1% of lending, and will not pursue, the Serious Fraud Office indicated that I should contact my local MP.

Figures released by the Council of Mortage Lenders in 2004 show that 1/3rd of all mortgage lending was “income non-verified” and 1/5th of all mortgage debt had never had income verified against the borrowing.

There’s a lot of debt out there. There are many of us who prefer to play with a straight bat and comply with the law. House purchase has been put out of our reach and that of our families because of the massive scale that fraud has been, and continues to be, carried out in the mortgage market.

There is a growing feeling of unrest amongst the lawfull people as this fraud is taking a great detriment both on our lives and the economy as a whole.

Current house prices cannot be supported by even profesional people, and the levels of debt required cannot be supported within a stable economy.

For if a First Time Buyer is to be expected to find £800 a month against a very modest family home they will be unable to keep up required spending into the economy.

The high street makes up 2/3rds of our economy. Current levels of debt are already hitting spending in the high street.

Make it possible for people to have a home without competing against others willing to commit fraud in the marketplace.

Make it possible for people to maintain the cost of a home with a lifestyle above that cost that allows our economy to recover.

The fraud must be stopped and I am confident that I can rely on you to ensure that you take all action to ensure that it is,

Please can you look into this and let me know your findings.

Yours sincerely,

blah blah

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I would like to say that "income non verified" mortages are not all fraudulent and they were designed for those whose income is less easy to prove then us poor paye saps..

but. the levels of use (1/3 of all new loans and 1/5 of all current lending never had any income verified) does indicate clear and large scales of abuse.

this must be stopped.

1) if it is then we souldn't need to borrow such high multiples in the first place

2) There is no way that a 6 times salary loan can be maintained should interest rates climb.

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I would like to say that "income non verified" mortages are not all fraudulent and they were designed for those whose income is less easy to prove then us poor paye saps..

but. the levels of use (1/3 of all new loans and 1/5 of all current lending never had any income verified) does indicate clear and large scales of abuse.

this must be stopped.

1) if it is then we souldn't need to borrow such high multiples in the first place

2) There is no way that a 6 times salary loan can be maintained should interest rates climb.

Apom

I am in total agreement with you that abuse should be stopped. However, is it not the case that you are merely trying to bring about a situation where you are in a much better position to buy than all of these fraudulent buyers?

If you want to reduce borrowing multiples, why stop at x3.5 earnings?

What logical reason is there for us to borrow any of this artificially created "money" from banks?

If we were only allowed to pay cash for houses, I imagine you could pick up a nice detached house for a song.

Why do we tolerate a system that simply results in the transferance of an ever-greater proportion of housing wealth to the banks?

In 1900, only around 5% of the total value of housing in the UK was mortgaged.

By 1996, the figure was 37%. As you can imagine, the situation is even worse now.

If house prices drop severely, the debt remains and the banks' stake in the nation's housing assets will rocket.

Mortgages are a system whereby housing wealth has been gradually transferred from private individuals to the banks.

Taken to its logical conclusion, they will eventually have claim over the majority, if not all of the UK housing stock.

Is there any reason why we tolerate this situation?

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Apom

I am in total agreement with you that abuse should be stopped. However, is it not the case that you are merely trying to bring about a situation where you are in a much better position to buy than all of these fraudulent buyers?

If you want to reduce borrowing multiples, why stop at x3.5 earnings?

What logical reason is there for us to borrow any of this artificially created "money" from banks?

If we were only allowed to pay cash for houses, I imagine you could pick up a nice detached house for a song.

Why do we tolerate a system that simply results in the transferance of an ever-greater proportion of housing wealth to the banks?

In 1900, only around 5% of the total value of housing in the UK was mortgaged.

By 1996, the figure was 37%. As you can imagine, the situation is even worse now.

If house prices drop severely, the debt remains and the banks' stake in the nation's housing assets will rocket.

Mortgages are a system whereby housing wealth has been gradually transferred from private individuals to the banks.

Taken to its logical conclusion, they will eventually have claim over the majority, if not all of the UK housing stock.

Is there any reason why we tolerate this situation?

Housing has an inherent cost..

say £50,000 would build you a good four bed detached family home.

But then the "lottery win" a guy with a field and planning permission.. (normally a local councillor) would shrink.. So realistically we are going to have to borrow to buy... or most are

but we don't owe on our houses..

We have all this equity.. and what we borrow against that is free money to spend on a shiny new car and a posh kitchen... We don't have to pay it back... do we?

What we are running against is the herd instict building a speculative market in search of free money.

There is no such thing as free money..

there are however easy ways to get so far into debt that it makes my blood run cold to think about it.

If we were free ot have affordable housing and expected to earn our fun money then the economy would be solid..

But that was too hard, between.. People are still willing to spend into a £1,1000,000,000,000 debt bubble that is now rupturing..

We are in debt, houses are too expensive, becuase for the most part we are lazy sheep in search of free money and without the comon sense to see that £180,000 for a small horror of a property might be quite a lot of money.

people other then some professionals that I know and the people on here.

Edited by apom

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Housing has an inherent cost..

say £50,000 would build you a good four bed detached family home.

But then the "lottery win" a guy with a field and planning permission.. (normally a local councillor) would shrink.. So realistically we are going to have to borrow to buy... or most are

but we don't owe on our houses..

We have all this equity.. and what we borrow against that is free money to spend on a shiny new car and a posh kitchen... We don't have to pay it back... do we?

What we are running against is the herd instict building a speculative market in search of free money.

There is no such thing as free money..

there are however easy ways to get so far into debt that it makes my blood run cold to think about it.

If we were free ot have affordable housing and expected to earn our fun money then the economy would be solid..

But that was too hard, between.. People are still willing to spend into a £1,1000,000,000,000 debt bubble that is now rupturing..

We are in debt, houses are too expensive, becuase for the most part we are lazy sheep in search of free money and without the comon sense to see that £180,000 for a small horror of a property might be quite a lot of money.

the country goes like this as people

You are correct that it is driven by a pursuit of free money. But this money only exists because the laws of our country permit it. House prices are determined by how much banks can persuade us to borrow. Why are they permitted to indenture us for most of our lives?

You are effectively calling for stricter credit controls. I agree.

But I also ask the question: what is an optimal level of credit to be made available? I think this needs to be discussed in this country (and all other countries) as it is THE major factor in all of our economic problems.

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Will M.P.'s take any notice of letters from HPC posters.

The words "cash" & "questions" spring to mind.

Anyone out there connected with Mr Al-Fayed?

He might assist.

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Will M.P.'s take any notice of letters from HPC posters.

The words "cash" & "questions" spring to mind.

Anyone out there connected with Mr Al-Fayed?

He might assist.

If enough do then maybee...

If we get enough then I can contact the media..

we can run with any knock backs when they arrive.

but we should try.

Please.. this has been here all day now and I am not convinced that more then 3 or four have taken the jump....

We are all empowered to do for ourselves to help ourselves.the herd instinct caused the massive problem we have now.

We do not need our own herd instinct to be that we do nothing.

the online submission to your MP works and takes about five minutes..

Please spare yourself 5 minutes to do this.

don't expect the current crisis to be taken seriously if you do not yourself take such a simple step toward helping yourself.

I mean no offence. I just am trying to create a bit of action here...

forgive me that at least..

come on people

Edited by apom

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If enough do then maybee...

If we get enough then I can contact the media..

we can run with any knock backs when they arrive.

but we should try.

Please.. this has been here all day now and I am not convinced that more then 3 or four have taken the jump....

We are all empowered to do for ourselves to help ourselves.the herd instinct caused the massive problem we have now.

We do not need our own herd instinct to be that we do nothing.

the online submission to your MP works and takes about five minutes..

Please spare yourself 5 minutes to do this.

don't expect the current crisis to be taken seriously if you do not yourself take such a simple step toward helping yourself.

I mean no offence. I just am trying to create a bit of action here...

forgive me that at least..

come on people

I honestly believe that a large number of people are avoiding identifying themselves as opponents of the status quo for fear of what might happen.

A lot of people are paronoid enough to believe that there is a risk that they could be punished in some unjustified way by the state or other institutions.

If that sounds a little extreme, then look at this way - few people want to be regarded as a tout. It feels like bad karma to a lot of people (to use the ex-pat forum language).

It is engrained in our psyche and you'll struggle to change that.

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Really..

What are they going to do....?

leave you in a situation where you can never have a home or a family...?

think of the children and their future....!!

do not look to the generation above for moral standing or guidance in this..

they are the ones prepared to sacrifice your future to line their pockets with money that they are too bone idle to earn..

Look at the generation above that.. the ones in their draughty old homes surviving on a pittance of a pension.. These are the ones who fought and died for their childrens freedom in the war..

To be repayed by their children by being left destitute..

Look to our grandparents for moral guidance..

we are Brittish and we are meant to be strong and not meek..

if you allow yourself to be a doormat.. you will remain one.

contact your MP..

one little thing..

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Really..

What are they going to do....?

leave you in a situation where you can never have a home or a family...?

think of the children and their future....!!

do not look to the generation above for moral standing or guidance in this..

they are the ones prepared to sacrifice your future to line their pockets with money that they are too bone idle to earn..

Look at the generation above that.. the ones in their draughty old homes surviving on a pittance of a pension.. These are the ones who fought and died for their childrens freedom in the war..

To be repayed by their children by being left destitute..

Look to our grandparents for moral guidance..

we are Brittish and we are meant to be strong and not meek..

if you allow yourself to be a doormat.. you will remain one.

contact your MP..

one little thing..

I agree with your principles, but a lot of people do not trust the state these days. A trumped up charge would be the easiest thing in the world to create these days.

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Guest rigsby II
do not look to the generation above for moral standing or guidance in this..

they are the ones prepared to sacrifice your future to line their pockets with money that they are too bone idle to earn..

Can we have a definitive series of dates for who's exactly to blame for what please ?

WWII heroes from 19xx to 19xx

Bone idle baby boomer scum bags from 19xx to 19xx

The cheated generation from 19xx to 19xx

Then we'll all know, cheers...

:)

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I agree with your principles, but a lot of people do not trust the state these days. A trumped up charge would be the easiest thing in the world to create these days.

I don't understand your point.

It wouldn't happen and you may sacre of people who might take part in what is your democratic right.

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I don't understand your point.

It wouldn't happen and you may sacre of people who might take part in what is your democratic right.

I would encourage everyone to do as you advise.

I am just trying to offer a reason why you are not getting a great response to this from a group of motivated people who have the same eventual goals as you do.

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It saddens me that posts I make about the state of the economy and price trends are recieved better then ones that encourage us to take our own destiny in our hands.

..

If this had been succesful there would have been an overnight crash..

e.g..

EA.... "where did all of the FTB's go..?

Other EA.. "They lost the ability to borrow as much as they liked"

EA,... " So who is going to buy properties at nine times their salary when thye have no Equity"

Other EA " Well no one.. who is there who could now.. a few can borrow higher multiples.. but they are the very few special cases who pass those critera"

EA... "so what do we sell these properties at.."

other EA "Same as we always have.. just as much as the FTB's can afford.. its that simple."

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Will M.P.'s take any notice of letters from HPC posters.

The words "cash" & "questions" spring to mind.

Anyone out there connected with Mr Al-Fayed?

He might assist.

M.P’s will not take seriously a communication that is ungrammatical, is miss-spelt and seems to be from a raving, incoherent and, seemingly, angry little person. They will laugh at you and bin the letter.

p

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Ah yes they may bin the letter.

But what about the cash contained in the envelope atteched to the letter?

Will that be binned ?

I trust NO politician.

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This site has some good stuff on it, but threads like this are plain embarrassing. Affordable housing means affordable accommodation. Fair enough, everyone should have a decent roof over their heads, but who ever said that everyone has a right to own their own house (OK, Thatcher, with the council house flog-off, but that was a one-off bribe subsidized by the tax payer). so long as there is a stock of affordable rental property there isn't a problem.

The dodgiest self-certificators will get their come-uppance, if interest rates go up even a tiny bit and if they can't rent the property out and cover the mortgage, especially when prices start to fall.

It is a sign of childish desperation to whine to the government the whole time.

Stash the cash and wait for the auction when the crapsters get caught out.

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I am not whining..

I am merely just annoyed that I cannot compete in a market where fraud is endemic.

Properties are only this expensive because people have speculated on them.

they are niether affordable to anyone on even an above average salary or capable of gaining enough rent to make them realistic investments in a buy to let market.

currently we are in a debt bubble that is fracturing the market, but it is taking the economy with it.

If prices could be reduced to stable amounts that the ecnomy could support then a large proportion of people would be able to sustain a lifestyle wihout a debt that is killing the high street and our economy that relies on it.

this way, the one I am suggesting could keep the country from recession.

It would leave people with massive debts and a home in the same debt that they were in before and with the same home. Not having lost their job and sold their home and still with outstanding debt.

If you don't think our current economic problems in this country are real...

We have now over a trillion pounds of personal debt.

£600,000,000,000 more then we did 7 years ago..

over £10,000 for every man, woman or child...

If you think that the economy can survive while we pay this back then you could take some time to convince me of your theory. I can see no way.

please contact the MP and help put a stop to this.

don't forget the debt has got us to where we are now. But people massivly in debt are now a hinderance to the economy, not a bonus.

The future are those who wish to earn their money and spend as they earn.

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  • 336 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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