Homeowners Still Living In La La Land

[Guest BetterOffOnBenefits]

I was at a dinner last weekend with friends and the conversation came round to the old favourite - Home ownership.

HO: So when are you going to buy?

Me:Not yet, can't afford it

HO:Have you considered shared ownership

Me:No

HO:Why not

Me:It's not for me, I want to own 100% of the place

HO:Well, it's your loss.

The fact is I no longer want to get into conversations where I have to go back to secondary school Economics Level 1. It's tiresome. Also I don't know when a HPC will occur (the word crash is wrong, it will be more of a slide IMO) and I don't want to put my neck on the line and make predictions, after all, we've been thwarted several times now by Gordon and his ilk.

The other thing is that I don't want to be seen as the 'bad guy'. Sitting at a meal and pronouncing an HPC to homeowners is PERCEIVED by them as me saying that I fully endorse poverty and suffering. I'm effectively saying that I WANT to see THEIR property values fall to the ground.

I swiftly got off the topic as it now bores the s***e out of me but the point of this thread is that IGNORANCE and STUPIDITY is still alive and kicking.

[Tonkers]

I was at a dinner last weekend with friends and the conversation came round to the old favourite - Home ownership.

HO: So when are you going to buy?

Me:Not yet, can't afford it

HO:Have you considered shared ownership

Me:No

HO:Why not

Me:It's not for me, I want to own 100% of the place

HO:Well, it's your loss.

The fact is I no longer want to get into conversations where I have to go back to secondary school Economics Level 1. It's tiresome. Also I don't know when a HPC will occur (the word crash is wrong, it will be more of a slide IMO) and I don't want to put my neck on the line and make predictions, after all, we've been thwarted several times now by Gordon and his ilk.

The other thing is that I don't want to be seen as the 'bad guy'. Sitting at a meal and pronouncing an HPC to homeowners is PERCEIVED by them as me saying that I fully endorse poverty and suffering. I'm effectively saying that I WANT to see THEIR property values fall to the ground.

I swiftly got off the topic as it now bores the s***e out of me but the point of this thread is that IGNORANCE and STUPIDITY is still alive and kicking.

I got a great quote from a friend of mine. When she mentioned to another friend that the value of their flat might go down "she looked at me like I had called her mother a whore".

[non frog]

.....

I swiftly got off the topic as it now bores the s***e out of me but the point of this thread is that IGNORANCE and STUPIDITY is still alive and kicking.

There is an urban myth that ostriches hide their head in the sand when danger approaches. Actually its only humans that are this daft (ostriches leg it).

Its a simple defence mechanism. People don't want to hear you saying that their precious house will fall in value. If it does this will undermine all their presumptions of the future. Their (often massive) debts will come back to haunt them. Their precarious retirement income (probably screwed by demographics already) will evaporate and the reality of retiring at 70 with chuff all is not a welcome prospect. They can also see the government(s) are doing what they can to keep the HPI going. The OBR has predicted HPI so you must be wrong and the OBR is right. HPI will cure all the ills of society, it will prevent global warming from being a catastrophe, it will cure cancer, it will discover life on other planets - to question it is to question life itself. Or something like that.

Go to the local aquarium and watch the hermit crabs fighting one another for the best shell. That's all we are, but a bit bigger.

[OnlyMe]

I got a great quote from a friend of mine. When she mentioned to another friend that the value of their flat might go down "she looked at me like I had called her mother a whore".

Make her happy, tell her straight out that her mother is a whore but her house will be worth a million pounds by the time she retires.

[pete.hpc]

When some smart ass asks me if I'm going to get a shared ownership, I always retort with "why should I? did you have to buy half a house? no?"

Edited July 10, 2010 by pete.hpc

[Tonkers]

Make her happy, tell her straight out that her mother is a whore but her house will be worth a million pounds by the time she retires.

Ha ha, you can imagine, the ears pricking up, the need to believe. She's fecked, it's a one bedder in North London, she bought at the top.

[Reluctant Heretic]

I was at a dinner last weekend with friends and the conversation came round to the old favourite - Home ownership.

HO: So when are you going to buy?

Me:Not yet, can't afford it

HO:Have you considered shared ownership

Me:No

HO:Why not

Me:It's not for me, I want to own 100% of the place

HO:Well, it's your loss.

The fact is I no longer want to get into conversations where I have to go back to secondary school Economics Level 1. It's tiresome. Also I don't know when a HPC will occur (the word crash is wrong, it will be more of a slide IMO) and I don't want to put my neck on the line and make predictions, after all, we've been thwarted several times now by Gordon and his ilk.

The other thing is that I don't want to be seen as the 'bad guy'. Sitting at a meal and pronouncing an HPC to homeowners is PERCEIVED by them as me saying that I fully endorse poverty and suffering. I'm effectively saying that I WANT to see THEIR property values fall to the ground.

I swiftly got off the topic as it now bores the s***e out of me but the point of this thread is that IGNORANCE and STUPIDITY is still alive and kicking.

I've learnt not to say a word, mind you for many years now I have been practising the art of pressing my lips together firmly in the face of mindless folly. I wonder what my face looks like though - I'm told that I have an impressive range of facial expressions.

I remember sitting with a bunch of stuffed suits while they all wittered on about 'when prices recover'. I finally snapped with impatience and said that I seriously doubted that 'prices would recover' for another ten years. (Although my actual wish is that we could have a quantum shift in the way our national economy operates so that providing homes was a just a job like any other). I could not actually believe my ears when one of them next admitted that he actually agreed with me and had STR. (So what the hell was he banging on with the others for?).

A typical example of 'male group think' as highlighted on The Today programme Thursday morning in a discussion about the MPC.

[Tonkers]

When some smart ass asks me if I'm going to get a shared ownership, I always retort with "why should I? did you have to buy half a house? no?"

Does it indicate some insecurity, this desperation by 'homeowners' that you should be one too? Is the plain fact that a mortgage is a loan starting to dawn on them?

[NEO72]

I got a great quote from a friend of mine. When she mentioned to another friend that the value of their flat might go down "she looked at me like I had called her mother a whore".

I can relate to that (not the mother being a whore bit obviously). There's a look-part condescension/part outrage/part ignorance that appears on homeowners faces when you mention the possibility of (further) falls. Funnily enough, I get the same look when I describe the probable extent of the government's austerity measures...

[Guest BetterOffOnBenefits]

I'm actually back living at home now after being in rented for a while. It's not ideal because of location for my job etc but it is allowing me to save. It doesn't bother me half as much as it bothers other people. They react to it as though its something to be deeply ashamed of, or just talk to you as though you "haven't joined the real world yet"

Yes I have

I have savings, I work, I obey the law, I pay my taxes, I have no debt.

How much more REAL do you want?

Edited July 10, 2010 by BetterOffOnBenefits

[@contradevian]

When some smart ass asks me if I'm going to get a shared ownership, I always retort with "why should I? did you have to buy half a house? no?"

My standard retort for shared ownership is that its "key money" or a premium for a secure tenancy. You are buying a secure tenancy as opposed to an AST and key money for private residential was outlawed some time ago (but not for commercial property obviously).

[200p]

You might as have a yellow badge with "home owner" on it to show other home owners you're special.

Edited July 10, 2010 by Money Spinner

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

I was at a dinner last weekend with friends and the conversation came round to the old favourite - Home ownership.

HO: So when are you going to buy?

Me:Not yet, can't afford it

HO:Have you considered shared ownership

Me:No

HO:Why not

Me:It's not for me, I want to own 100% of the place

HO:Well, it's your loss.

The fact is I no longer want to get into conversations where I have to go back to secondary school Economics Level 1. It's tiresome. Also I don't know when a HPC will occur (the word crash is wrong, it will be more of a slide IMO) and I don't want to put my neck on the line and make predictions, after all, we've been thwarted several times now by Gordon and his ilk.

The other thing is that I don't want to be seen as the 'bad guy'. Sitting at a meal and pronouncing an HPC to homeowners is PERCEIVED by them as me saying that I fully endorse poverty and suffering. I'm effectively saying that I WANT to see THEIR property values fall to the ground.

I swiftly got off the topic as it now bores the s***e out of me but the point of this thread is that IGNORANCE and STUPIDITY is still alive and kicking.

When back in Blighty and taking part in these soirees and and my opinion is occasionally asked (at this point the other half generally leaves the room), i generally find myself telling them not to worry as whilst they may well fall 50%+ in sterling terms its pretty small fry compared to a 90% drop in the FTSE, a 50% sterling devaluation and another 4 to 5 million unemployed. The subject doesnt come up as often as it used to

Edited July 10, 2010 by Tamara De Lempicka

[corevalue]

That's interesting. The ones who are really challenged about this, as you can expect, are those heavily indebted. It's interesting, because my generation, boomers, tend to ask the question at dinner parties "Did you see the house down the road for sale? Who the feck has got the money to afford that?", because we've either paid off, or nearly paid off our own mortgages.

It's relevant to us, as most of us, contrary to popular belief, don't look on our houses as retirement vehicles or investments but as somewhere to live - we've been in our houses for 30 years+ and either can't imagine what it's like paying 10x salary on a mortgage (their own experience being different), or dumbstruck that anyone could manage or aspire to do that (those of us that can add up). We all have children in their 20's who are now truly stuffed - eking out an existence in a twilight world of short-term rentals and living with Mum and Dad, instead of looking to start a family in a proper "family" home of their own.

I think peoples expectations have been manipulated. Massive job losses and other economic bad karma is coming. Frightened of losing your job? Never mind, your house is now worth mega-squillion, you can sell it and live a life of luxury. So the meek are kept mis-informed, and gloat over their massive virtual gains. Being reminded of the illusory nature of these virtual gains is not something they welcome.

If they are antagonistic, leave them alone, let them hug their comfort blankets while they still can.

[pepsi]

"HO:Well, it's your loss."

..and that is why you should never buy a shared ownership... because if the value goes down it's YOUR loss.

If the value were to go up, it's only partly your gain.

Edited July 10, 2010 by pepsi

[cybernoid]

either can't imagine what it's like paying 10x salary on a mortgage (their own experience being different), or dumbstruck that anyone could manage or aspire to do that (those of us that can add up). We all have children in their 20's who are now truly stuffed - eking out an existence in a twilight world of short-term rentals and living with Mum and Dad, instead of looking to start a family in a proper "family" home of their own.

Thats refreshing to hear, I've not heard many people of your generation admit to the next being stuffed. All i hear is 'we had it tough too, you all want it all these days, you'll just have to work hard and save up like we did, ooo we never had iPods '. Then when I tell them how much that 2 bed flat down the road is on the market for they are stunned and say 'ooo that's too much!'. Really? Ya think?

[pete.hpc]

I'm actually back living at home now after being in rented for a while. It's not ideal because of location for my job etc but it is allowing me to save. It doesn't bother me half as much as it bothers other people. They react to it as though its something to be deeply ashamed of, or just talk to you as though you "haven't joined the real world yet"

Yes I have

I have savings, I work, I obey the law, I pay my taxes, I have no debt.

How much more REAL do you want?

Yeah, I get the same thrown back at me. Only in the UK do people look down their noses at people living with their families as they attempt to buy a home, on the continent it's quite common. We're so brainwashed here and peer-pressured into getting on the housing ladder, people react with horror if you say you're lodging with your folks. But it's ok to tap up the bank of mum and dad, somehow that's admirable.

****** 'em. They're just upset because I'm not playing their game and supporting their ludicrous decision by buying half a house and keeping the merry-go-round going. The more I save, the more I'm looking at smaller and smaller places and 50% mortgages, so I can move out and continue to save to move up the ladder, not rely on perpetual HPI.

[200p]

Can I stick in a 4 Yorkshire men sketch?

We had no ipods in those days.... There were 150 of us living in a shoe box

Edited July 10, 2010 by Money Spinner

[corevalue]

Thats refreshing to hear, I've not heard many people of your generation admit to the next being stuffed. All i hear is 'we had it tough too, you all want it all these days, you'll just have to work hard and save up like we did, ooo we never had iPods '. Then when I tell them how much that 2 bed flat down the road is on the market for they are stunned and say 'ooo that's too much!'. Really? Ya think?

That's because of the relentless VI propaganda "must get on the housing ladder"...."more affordable...." "prices always go up...." Most people, in all generations, have great difficulty with critical thinking, and even the most intelligent seem to swallow unsubstantiated BS, regarding it as divine truth. We did have it tough, but a lot of the older generations have not yet realised that's it's a magnitude tougher now - because they believe what they read in the Mail and Express.

If I was faced with the OP's question, "Why don't you get a shared....affordable...whatever", I'd reply that I'd heard of some job opportunity in Tahiti (or somewhere else exotic) and I'd prefer to keep my options open......those chances have to be turned down once you buy a property in the UK....I mean, as it is, I can always swan off for a year travelling....prefer not to be dragged down by a mortgage just yet.....I'll wait and see if the economy picks up here first....

The silence will be polite. The topic will change.

[Guest BetterOffOnBenefits]

"HO:Well, it's your loss."

..and that is why you should never buy a shared ownership... because if the value goes down it's YOUR loss.

If the value were to go up, it's only partly your gain.

I didn't know that salient piece of information

and I'm sure 99.999% of the suckers who never read the small print did either.

[Si1]

That's interesting. The ones who are really challenged about this, as you can expect, are those heavily indebted. It's interesting, because my generation, boomers, tend to ask the question at dinner parties "Did you see the house down the road for sale? Who the feck has got the money to afford that?", because we've either paid off, or nearly paid off our own mortgages.

nice post

[Meat Puppet]

I didn't know that salient piece of information

and I'm sure 99.999% of the suckers who never read the small print did either.

You also have to wonder what will happen to Housing Associations in the next few years. Could be that rents will go up rather sharply.

[geoffk]

The best reply is "good god no i am waiting for them to fall so i can buy outright"..."mortgages are for fools"

[libspero]

The best reply is "good god no i am waiting for them to fall so i can buy outright"..."mortgages are for fools"

Or

"If shared ownership's so damn good, how come you don't have one?"

[Redcellar]

Or

"If shared ownership's so damn good, how come you don't have one?"

Reply: "I don't need one."

Counter: "Neither will I when I buy a repo'd house with cash, cos prices have plummeted 50% and the owner is declared bankrupt. Happening in the USA" .... then walk away.