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gruffydd

Grants Withdrawn In Wales - Never To Come Back

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SIF grants just withdrawn - to be replaced with... loans

Yet another hammer blow to the Welsh economy.

G

Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

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If we had the power to dictate our own economic policy, you'd be right...

We don't - what is happening in England dictates our corporation tax, our income tax, etc.

The economy here is marginal at best, yet we don't even have the economic versatility of a Swiss Canton.

The grant/subsidy system kind of makes up for that. I'd prefer it if we got rid of all subsidies and quickly transitioned to a low tax economy like Ireland.

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If we had the power to dictate our own economic policy, you'd be right...

We don't - what is happening in England dictates our corporation tax, our income tax, etc.

The economy here is marginal at best, yet we don't even have the economic versatility of a Swiss Canton.

The grant/subsidy system kind of makes up for that. I'd prefer it if we got rid of all subsidies and quickly transitioned to a low tax economy like Ireland.

Well a low tax economy requires a low public spending economy. Looks as though you are being prepared for that.

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If we had the power to dictate our own economic policy, you'd be right...

We don't - what is happening in England dictates our corporation tax, our income tax, etc.

The economy here is marginal at best, yet we don't even have the economic versatility of a Swiss Canton.

The grant/subsidy system kind of makes up for that. I'd prefer it if we got rid of all subsidies and quickly transitioned to a low tax economy like Ireland.

If all the government money and effort that is directed into the Welsh language was used for improving business and industry, perhaps you would be better placed?

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If all the government money and effort that is directed into the Welsh language was used for improving business and industry, perhaps you would be better placed?

Given that this move means that there is now no business support at all in Wales, that's doubtful

SIF was useful for very small companies trying to become bigger ones; this is exactly the sort of cut in public spending that knackers the economy.

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Given that this move means that there is now no business support at all in Wales, that's doubtful

SIF was useful for very small companies trying to become bigger ones; this is exactly the sort of cut in public spending that knackers the economy.

The grants are being replaced with loans right? Thats not unreasonable. A bribe grant to a Sheffield steelmaker was cancelled, as they could have raised the money by issuing shares.

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Does anybody have any stats or links to datas associated with regional investment over the last 10-20 years?

I may be completely wrong, but it often 'feels' like Wales and Scotland are disproportionally well funded / invested in as opposed to, say, 'the midlands'. As the UK remains a union, I would like to understand if a.) this is true and b.) the reason for it.

Or will I have to make friends with Google again (we ha a row last night)?

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The grants are being replaced with loans right? Thats not unreasonable.

Well, if you were a small business in Wales you might feel a tad put out that it's the only part of the UK that now has no small business support at all.

I can understand that people may think that there should be no business support at all; I'm just saying that the effect will be detrimental to the private sector, and especially those little start-ups that could take the slack when public sector jobs go. I suppose the alternative is for a big increase in unemployment, and I do feel that may be less productive for all concerned.

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I may be completely wrong, but it often 'feels' like Wales and Scotland are disproportionally well funded / invested in

EU regional development money; Wales anyway gets most of its SIF cash from Brussels. Hence the silliness of killing the fund. It'll just go to Spain or somewhere instead now.

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Well, if you were a small business in Wales you might feel a tad put out that it's the only part of the UK that now has no small business support at all.

I can understand that people may think that there should be no business support at all; I'm just saying that the effect will be detrimental to the private sector, and especially those little start-ups that could take the slack when public sector jobs go.  I suppose the alternative is for a big increase in unemployment, and I do feel that may be less productive for all concerned.

I don't know what the situation is. There are no links in this thread, and I've googled and can't find anything. I agree it would be odd to withdraw small business support in Wales and nowhere else, but without more info, difficult to argue.

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I don't know what the situation is.

I do

I run a small business in Wales and we've just lost a SIF grant that would have let us participate in an international consortium to develop a new product, and specifically to employ a couple of people. Yes I could take a loan to do it but TBH it's a bit high-risk for a micro sized company like ours; it could easily put us under in the decade it'd need to get pay-back.

So I'll just scale back, spend more time cycling and less time working - far less stress that way.

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I do

I run a small business in Wales and we've just lost a SIF grant that would have let us participate in an international consortium to develop a new product, and specifically to employ a couple of people. Yes I could take a loan to do it but TBH it's a bit high-risk for a micro sized company like ours; it could easily put us under in the decade it'd need to get pay-back.

So I'll just scale back, spend more time cycling and less time working - far less stress that way.

A business that needs grants isn't a business. It's a charity.

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A business that needs grants isn't a business. It's a charity.

Hmm ... not meaning to veer the discussion away from topic, but any properly run charity should also be considered a business. It has income and expenditure and needs to balance its books just like any other business. The difference between a for-profit business and a non-profit business is that the former is an operation that generates new wealth and returns the wealth over and above that needed to cover its operating costs to shareholders and taxpayers (in varying proportions, depending on the sort of government it operates under), whereas the latter is an operation that uses wealth generated elsewhere in order to carry out a specific function or functions. Just because a non-profit business / charity doesn't directly generate some or all of the wealth it uses does not mean that it shouldn't apply business techniques in order to use that wealth as efficiently as possible.

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A business that needs grants isn't a business. It's a charity.

We don't need grants.

In fact the SIF would have given 50% of the investment needed to do the project and take on 2 people, and I'd have provided the rest.

As it is we'll not get the grant, the business won't take on two new people but it'll carry on ticking over as-is.

But don't let ideological purity get in the way of the facts ;)

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We don't need grants.

If you don't need 'em, you won't miss 'em then, so I don't see what all the moaning is about?

Time for the UK regions to to wean themselves off the state handouts, and start pulling their weight (and I type that from Scotland).

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I could hardly find out anything about this at all. All I could find was that these Small Investment Funds seemed to be exclusive to Wales, were administered by the Welsh assembly (even though the funds might have come from the EU). Maybe its an EU programme ending, or perhaps the Welsh Assembly cutting back and hoping to blame Westminster?

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I could hardly find out anything about this at all. All I could find was that these Small Investment Funds seemed to be exclusive to Wales, were administered by the Welsh assembly (even though the funds might have come from the EU). Maybe its an EU programme ending, or perhaps the Welsh Assembly cutting back and hoping to blame Westminster?

The WA terminated a;ll its business support last year, and put all the eggs in the SIF basket. SIF covered everytyhing from small business support to (in our case) EUREKA (an EU funding scheme)

I agree it's very hard to find out WTF the situation is, and I only know what is going on from having meetings with the people with the money.,

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If you don't need 'em, you won't miss 'em then, so I don't see what all the moaning is about?

God you're a a dopey ******er :blink:

The point is that we don't need the money to carry on as before. But not having it stops us from being part of an international partnership and taking on 2 new people; it's too high risk for a micro-enterprise trying to punch above its weight. My priority has to be to ensure that the business can carry on and pay the wages of those it currently employs. I'm happy to take a bit of risk (as I say, the EUREKA/SIF scheme pays under half the actual cost and we pay the rest) but at 100% costs it's more attractive to me to not bother. Maybe not as socially-responsible, but as I say that has to be a balance against risk

Ideological purity is one thing, but you have to recognise that swinging cuts in public expenditure impact on the private sector in ways like this. Maybe it makes you feel a better person to have people on benefits; me, I'd rather see that money spent on supporting small companies to employ them.

Maybe you should try running a business, and see how far ideological purity gets you.

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God you're a a dopey ******er :blink:

The point is that we don't need the money to carry on as before. But not having it stops us from being part of an international partnership and taking on 2 new people; it's too high risk for a micro-enterprise trying to punch above its weight. My priority has to be to ensure that the business can carry on and pay the wages of those it currently employs. I'm happy to take a bit of risk (as I say, the EUREKA/SIF scheme pays under half the actual cost and we pay the rest) but at 100% costs it's more attractive to me to not bother. Maybe not as socially-responsible, but as I say that has to be a balance against risk

Ideological purity is one thing, but you have to recognise that swinging cuts in public expenditure impact on the private sector in ways like this. Maybe it makes you feel a better person to have people on benefits; me, I'd rather see that money spent on supporting small companies to employ them.

Maybe you should try running a business, and see how far ideological purity gets you.

Seriously - don't you find applying for grants and the straightjackets they put you in just too restrictive? Having tried a few over the years, I have. Give me Tax rebates on useful activity like R&D any day.

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Seriously - don't you find applying for grants and the straightjackets they put you in just too restrictive?

Nope. They fund R&D directly at a two-and-a-half-times better rate than 20%-equivalent. Not too many straightjackets either - no ore than you'd expect if someone is funding you.

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I do

I run a small business in Wales and we've just lost a SIF grant that would have let us participate in an international consortium to develop a new product, and specifically to employ a couple of people. Yes I could take a loan to do it but TBH it's a bit high-risk for a micro sized company like ours; it could easily put us under in the decade it'd need to get pay-back.

So I'll just scale back, spend more time cycling and less time working - far less stress that way.

Sad to hear that - Can you access LIF?

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If you don't need 'em, you won't miss 'em then, so I don't see what all the moaning is about?

Time for the UK regions to to wean themselves off the state handouts, and start pulling their weight (and I type that from Scotland).

There's more spending per head in London than any other part of Britain - time to address that uncomfortable fact first? I doubt it!

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If you don't need 'em, you won't miss 'em then, so I don't see what all the moaning is about?

Time for the UK regions to to wean themselves off the state handouts, and start pulling their weight (and I type that from Scotland).

That will only happen with full independence in both currency and law-making. Until that happens, the regional economies will be (relatively) crippled.

Transfer payments are part-and-parcel of currency unions and centralised control. Failing to recognise this (or accept it, when clearly pointed out) is at the root of the current EZ problems.

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  • 145 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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